[Fis] Emotional Sentience - Closing Questions & Comments - theory and being in the world

Thu Jun 6 11:44:56 CEST 2024

Dear Learned Friends,

A longer expose for the record is in the works.
Two points of it deserve to be brought forward, being answers to points
raised recently.

A. Kate, information.
You say that there is no consisent theory of information generally agreed
on.
Let me repeat that a formal deictic definition of the concept and the
numerical extent of the unit of information has been generated.
It is the deviations of the properties of cycles 3,6 of the reorder ab - ba
of Cohort 16.

B. Eric, mess for formal theorists
Let me politely disagree with your judgment. This person has learnt to
distinguish between messy and correct thinking.
Imagining up cohorts of logical units, especially in the form of a, b is
not a messy exercise.
Rotating additions may sound messy, but the underlying operations, namely
sorting and resorting, are deeply exact, correct and tautologic.
Predictions of the future are not foreseen in the present canon. One
predicts the future as one counts subsequent elements of cycles. This is as
rational as it can get.
The resulting hybrid of the mother of all sudokus with the father of all
Rubik cubes is a complicated set of algorithms applied to natural numbers.
This is not hallucination.

Please be assured that one may and can assemble a world view, adapted and
updated for the xxi. century, and remain sane and in possession of the
mental capacities. Thinking does not make you crazy, nor messy.

Respectfully

Eric Werner <eric.werner at oarf.org> schrieb am Do., 6. Juni 2024, 11:13:

> Dear Kung Fu Kate,
>
> One reason the problem of integrating emotions into a theory at all is
> that emotions are directly experienced by a subject, me for example and you
> I assume.
>
> Any theory of something is "of something". The skeptic can always say, I
> fell and have sensations, but you may not.
>
> To make emotions part of a theoretical formal system gives them a third
> party ontology where the emotion or sensation disappears into a
> operational, transformative context.
>
> I try to link emotions with a formal theory of intentional states, but
> this reduces emotions to utility functions or some other
> evaluative-economic von Neumanian conctruct.
>
> To be alive and be conscious of self and body via direct sensations is an
> oddity that has plagued philosophers and all the related fields of
> science,  Reduction or direct one-to-one correspondence between sensation
> and chemical-physical process again puts emotion in a being observed but
> not experienced perspective.
>
> If souls or an ontological construct that have direct experience when
> inhabiting a body is an attempted solution, then how do they work?
>
> It is really a mess for formal theorists.
>
> -Eric
> On 6/4/24 9:57 AM, Francesco Rizzo wrote:
>
> Dear Kate,
> - existence and knowledge are based on the process of
> trans-in-form-action: forma(tive) action which transforms over time;
>  - this applies to everyone, lay people and otherwise;
> - Given that there a "field of form" for every thing, living being and
> person, the value of the form or the form of the value is synchronically
> important.
> - It is not possible to determine the "most probable value of" (Gaussian
> distribution), but the most or less probable (see "The judgment of value",
> 1972).
> - Following Hegel's "Science of logic" (quantity, quality, measurement) it
> is possible to evaluate qualitative quantities or quantitative qualities in
> emotional-rational terms.
> -Fuzzy logic, semiotic-hermeneutical approach, Taoism (biological Yin and
> Yang), etc., are decisive, but absolutely indeterministic.
> -My theory of value is hexagonal (a good is worth because it is beautiful,
> good, useful, true, right and legal).
> - In short, it is only possible to calculate normal values from a
> subjective point of view.
>  Thank you very much.
>  Francesco
>
> Cara Kate,
> - l'esistenza e la conoscenza sono basate sul processo di
> tras-in-form-azione:
> azione forma(tiva) che si trasforma nel tempo;
> - questo vale per tutti, laici e non;
> - Posto che v'ha un "campo di forma" per ogni cosa, essere vivente e
> persona,
> è sincronicamente importante il valore della forma o la forma del valore.
> - Non è possibile determinare il  "più probabile valore di" (distribuzione
> gaussiana),
> ma i valori più o meno probabili (cfr. "Il giudizio di valore", 1972).
> -Seguendo la "Scienza della logica" di Hegel (quantità, qualità, misura) è
> possibile
> valutare quantità qualitative o qualità quantitative in termini
> emo-ra-zionali.
>  -Logica Fuzzy, Approccio semiotico-ermeneutico, Taoismo (Yin e Yang
> biologici), etc.,
> sono decisivi, ma assolutamente indeterministici.
> -La mia teoria del valore è esagonale (un bene vale perchè è bello, buono,
> utile, vero,
> giusto e legale).
> - In estrema sintesi è possibile solo calcolare valori normali dal punto
> di vista soggettivo.
> Grazie di cuore.
> Francesco
>
>
>
> Il giorno sab 1 giu 2024 alle ore 21:14 Katherine Peil Kauffman <
> ktpeil at outlook.com> ha scritto:
>
>> Dear Pedro et al,
>>
>> Thank you all once again for the splendid discussion. (Those both here
>> and the many “back-stage”.)
>> By way of final closure I’d like to pose two general questions to each of
>> you:
>>
>> 1) What would you recommend as your best general *definition of
>> information* for the lay public?
>> 2) What can information science tell us about “*evaluative”* information?
>>
>> Pedro, I hope life is treating you and yours with the very best of all
>> possible outcomes. While your absence has definitely altered the dynamics
>> of this discussion, it turns out that there are many “Scarecrows" that I
>> will miss most upon returning to my world.
>>
>> Some of us - perhaps renegade - psychologists are calling this world the
>> “Psychosphere”, a term that demands a place for subjectivity in our
>> foundational theories. We seek deeper more complete frameworks and
>> realistic explanations for all the nuances of “identity” as well as all
>> Norman Bates connotations of human development and behavior. We value
>> humility.  We don’t claim to know the answers.  But we will no longer check
>> our humanity at the door or deny our destructive impact on the biosphere or
>> upon one another. We trust the biological wisdom of our embodiment, and
>> honor the responsibility inherent in “free” will. We aim to draw much more
>> deeply upon direct experience, to let people try the science on for size,
>> and decide for themselves. An edited collection is in the works, and I’m
>> offering the new emotion science in one (maybe two) chapters entitled *The
>> Tao of Life, Love, and Larceny. *(As you might guess, the Love and
>> Larceny bits are to emphasize how the positive and negative emotions relate
>> to the best and worst of human nature.) There is so much to say - whatever
>> logic might apply.
>>
>> Please know that each of you are always welcome in my world. Welcome to
>> contribute, to argue, to question, and/or to share unique personal
>> experiences that demand better science. Indeed, we need you.
>>
>> Heartfully yours,
>>
>> Katherine Peil Kauffman
>> (AKA Kung Fu Kate)
>>
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>
> * Dr. Eric Werner Oxford Advanced Research Foundation https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XMsRffuf_qcimeI4Rz6Cv4LKpR3wjdf1DyNU4FhghYxWyI-VxiSHBR7cJTfOVmVEB7Uimtm6aRi3wn7sfQvxRGo8X88$ 
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