[Fis] Notes on Stuart and Andrea's Paper

[Marcus Abundis]

Hi Stuart,

Thank you for leading this FIS session – I have closely followed your work
since first meeting you, Terry, and others at Esalen Institute's Oct. 2005
CTR on Emergence. I have a few questions/comments:

FIRST, I suggest an earlier `first transition *to* science’ arose as the
Upper Paleolithic Revolution where modern humans first exhibited a capacity
for abstraction (re cave paintings, etc.), but that actually arose much
earlier (1.2mya `scientific workshop’ on knapping obsidian points and edges
– Humanity's First Great Invention
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cosmosmagazine.com/history/obsidian-handaxe-workshop/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!S3M0AAGEGBpuDKLsAY7sh7ERslZY8AZBFASJbJLh2C5XdTPw8X9y08QezOHK37Zzw94bLupMVCcq56sI$ >)
Without human *informatic* abstraction of material reality/base functions,
and refinement of said abstractions via practical/functional (and even
'aesthetic') trial-and-error, nothing like `science’ would exist.
Humanity's ensuing cultural ecology with myriad `levels of abstraction' (re
Korzybski) now broadly differentiate us from other animals.

SECOND, I agree with your argument for a scientific transition, and related
'mathematical issues', so do not see my notes as saying otherwise. Still, I
find your screwdriver and engine block examples unsatisfying. For example,
I suggest it is not 'pure functional affordance' that is *ultimately*
selected for, but effective-and-efficient aspects of specific adaptive
variables. As such, a screwdriver, engine block, frying pan, mid-sized
rock, and proper 'Class II lever' nutcracker can all crack nuts, but Nature
likely selects one that works most effectively-and-efficiently. In turn,
THAT functional selection ultimately determines upward or downward
(adaption vs. extinction) causal roles, as ensuing up/down adjacent
possibilities/affordances. Screwdrivers, etc. used as 'a tool meeting a
universal *crushing* need' are not true Screwdrivers, but a type of
universal tool (just as is the human hand) or 'generic crusher'. It is the
*actual relation* between Object 1 (engine block, or?) and Object 2 (nut)
that defines a function, not the name we 'think' to give it, or even its
raw affordance. I did not see functional/selected
effectiveness-and-efficiency covered in your paper – do you see this issue
as irrelevant?

THIRD, your earlier FIS post has:
< . . . stumbled upon one approach linking the TAP theory and the emergence
of autocatalytic sets >
Could you please clarify `TAP theory'? I Googled this phrase but found
nothing appropriate.

FOURTH, your paper states: 'emergence is not engineering'. If you include
effective-and-efficient functioning, I think 'engineering' is likely *part*
of emergence – but engineering *alone* is not enough. 'Something other'
must be included, where
< the central question . . . asks whether we can predict . . . relevant
adaptive variables . . . >
Toward this end . . . in my own 'reductive' view, I ask a question 'How
exactly do protons, neutrons, and electrons come to *selectively* create 94
Natural elements/adaptive variables? and WHY specifically 94 elements?!'
This all points back (re above) to a 'relation between Object 1 (proton)
and Object 2 (neutron) that defines actual *nuclear* functioning’. Here,
strong nuclear force, electromagnetic repulsion, and nuclear packing
present '*balanced* causal emergent factors’ – a balance 'realized’ and not
fully evident in prior divided protons, neutrons, and electrons. This view
applies to many other ensuing roles (I believe) in a simple-to-complex
cosmos. Mapping all such emergent roles ultimately/presumably points to a
viable Unified Field Theory. Do you see simple-to-complex transitions as
similar *balanced force* emergent transitions (alongside
engineered/selected details), or do you embrace another 'fundamental scheme
for emergence’?

These are all the questions I have for now. Thank you for your attention!

Marcus
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20240109/91cf4c0d/attachment-0001.html>