[Fis] (no subject)

Thu Dec 26 16:16:47 CET 2024

Dear Krassimir,

Thanks! I'm not aware of "New Year Lecture" you mentioned, is that a Zoom
meeting or a lecture on paper?
Either way, in addition to my previous message, may I add a view that
concepts of "Information", "System", and "Cybernetics" needs to be defined
together. I have a 4DST (4 Dimentional System Thinking) framework since
2001 when I first presented it on a conference in Vienna, if you might be
interested.  But here, let me bring your attention to a definition of
"System" by Maturana, which is just a 6-minute clip:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGhb77Jj_k8&t=35s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Xc92oO8Q5-JTYTq9TO1isPVwvqDwc0JDdLFh83S1qQOKij-zOQ0nJHaedPF2OBjaF3EbD4J4rvLDY_Wt8mtq0aSrwRdJ$ . Please take it as my
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year greeting card!

Best regards - Jason

On Wed, Dec 25, 2024 at 11:08 AM Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Jason,
> Thanks for the very interesting letter!
>
> I have been meaning to write an analysis of the relationship between these
> two definitions for a long time. Perhaps now is the time to pay some
> attention to this matter.
>
> Yes, there is an intersection between the two definitions, and that's
> wonderful. But I think it's just an intersection, not a coincidence.
>
> Since a New Year's Lecture is held at the beginning of each year in the
> FIS list, and our conversation is unlikely to be interesting for everyone,
> I propose to discuss your idea and my considerations through a personal
> exchange of letters.
>
> Of course, there is nothing secret about this conversation, so let anyone
> who would like to take part in it write to me and that way they will be
> included in the conversation and will be able to express their opinions.
>
> My email address for this conversation is:
>  Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com>
>
> Happy Holidays and Happy New Year 2025!
> With best wishes,
> Krassimir
>
>
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> <#m_-5585846226494734232_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> На сб, 21.12.2024 г. в 16:38 Jason Hu <jasonthegoodman at gmail.com> написа:
>
>> Dear Krassimir and all colleagues,
>>
>> Would it be better if Information = Data*Meaning ?
>>
>> From a constructivist point of view, if Data = null or if Meaning = null
>> then there is no information.
>>
>> Combining with my earlier suggestion that Information = A difference(d1)
>> that maks a difference (d2), d1=data, d2=meaning;
>> And we have d1=data=f(measurement), d2=meaning=f(cognition);
>>
>> For d1 you need to use your hand, take out your ruler and perform the
>> measure; ("ruler" can expand to telescope, microscope, X-ray machine, MRI,
>> CT, ... and what I call SysScope (System Thinking) and CybScope (Cybernetic
>> Thinking));
>> For d2 you obtain some "ah-ha" by running the little machine inside your
>> head (most likely with outside assistant, such as, a pencil, a calculator,
>> a computer, a ChatGPT, etc.)
>>
>> Therefore, d1 is "a desire to know," d2 is "result of knowing,"
>> Information is therefore manufactured, or an emergence, of the loop of
>> inquiry, which is a capacity that the Creator installed within us.
>>
>> Russell Ackoff had a good formula:
>> Data(result of measurement) < Information < Knowledge < Understanding <
>> Wisdom;
>> I think each layer above is an emergence emerged from the self-organizing
>> circular-causalities of our brain, i.e. eigenstates at different levels.
>>
>> Merry Christamas and Happy New Year! - Jason
>> ------------------------------------
>> Jason Jixuan Hu, Ph.D.
>> Independent Research Scholar
>> Organizer: Club of REMY:  https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Xc92oO8Q5-JTYTq9TO1isPVwvqDwc0JDdLFh83S1qQOKij-zOQ0nJHaedPF2OBjaF3EbD4J4rvLDY_Wt8mtq0Ykw11MM$ 
>> General Partner: WINTOP Group: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.wintopgroup.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Xc92oO8Q5-JTYTq9TO1isPVwvqDwc0JDdLFh83S1qQOKij-zOQ0nJHaedPF2OBjaF3EbD4J4rvLDY_Wt8mtq0UXgmDDY$ 
>> Introduction: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drjasonhu.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Xc92oO8Q5-JTYTq9TO1isPVwvqDwc0JDdLFh83S1qQOKij-zOQ0nJHaedPF2OBjaF3EbD4J4rvLDY_Wt8mtq0Z1S_uat$ 
>> Wiki Page: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJH008__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Xc92oO8Q5-JTYTq9TO1isPVwvqDwc0JDdLFh83S1qQOKij-zOQ0nJHaedPF2OBjaF3EbD4J4rvLDY_Wt8mtq0bJVllq9$ 
>> Video: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJHsprach__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Xc92oO8Q5-JTYTq9TO1isPVwvqDwc0JDdLFh83S1qQOKij-zOQ0nJHaedPF2OBjaF3EbD4J4rvLDY_Wt8mtq0ZkPv4Lt$ 
>> office: jjh at wintopgroup.com
>> mobile: jasonthegoodman at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 21, 2024 at 5:15 AM Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Xueshan,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the detailed answer.
>>>
>>> I will add that just as mathematics develops as (theoretical)
>>> mathematics and applied mathematics in different areas of practice, so too
>>> does information science develop as (theoretical) information science and
>>> applied information science in different areas of reality. Computer Science
>>> and Informatics develop as extensions of information science, directly
>>> related to the practice and implementation of machines for operating with
>>> data and knowledge.
>>>
>>> Therefore, I think it is justified to talk about:
>>>
>>> - information science and studies;
>>>
>>> - applied information science and studies.
>>>
>>> I have a proposal for the subject and foundations of this science, but
>>> now is not the time to start such a discussion. Perhaps I will first
>>> publish concise texts that will be available for discussion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Christophe,
>>>
>>> Of course, as it is  pointed out in 2017 in our joint paper from the
>>> FIS discussion, information is data with meaning, i.e.
>>>
>>> information = data + meaning
>>>
>>> Let's do a little transformation and transfer the "meaning" to the other
>>> side. We get:
>>>
>>> information - meaning = data
>>>
>>> Since data are reflections in the receptors of the subject, we can say
>>> that:
>>>
>>> information - meaning = reflection, in a particular case = data.
>>>
>>> This consideration allows us to say that all developments and
>>> definitions based on "information without meaning" refer to reflections, in
>>> particular - data, and do not concern the information with which subjects
>>> operate. In fact, they all rediscover or further develop parts of the
>>> Theory of Reflections.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Gordana,
>>>
>>> I think I gave in my response to Xueshan above the answer to your
>>> question "What do we want the study of information to be?"
>>>
>>> My answer to your other question, “Can we live with a plurality of
>>> notions of information?", is:
>>>
>>> - Yes, we can live with multiple definitions of information, but in fact
>>> there are not that many. In addition, some definitions define something
>>> else, but not the concept of "information", as we saw above. I will note,
>>> however, that it is difficult to find the methodological and factual
>>> shortcomings of the proposed new definitions, and this helps them to swarm.
>>>
>>> For example, regarding the publication of Stu Kaufman and Andrea Rolli,
>>> I will remember that I see in it a serious methodological flaw.
>>>
>>> I also argue " that no mathematics based on set theory can be used to
>>> deduce the diachronic emergence of adaptations in evolution". But this does
>>> not mean " that there can be no Final Theory that entails the becoming of
>>> the universe". Simply because modern mathematics has given us other tools,
>>> on the one hand, and on the other, there are a number of simulation
>>> approaches and systems that allow modeling these processes.
>>>
>>> In addition, we must remember that models are not reality itself, but
>>> its partial reflection, and therefore we cannot recreate reality through
>>> models, but we can externalize some of our ideas about it, creating
>>> corresponded models and thus make them available to other scientists
>>> who can continue further.
>>>
>>> But if we have no ideas, what do we expect our models to contain? This
>>> is exactly the case with the "becoming of the universe".
>>>
>>> If no one has any idea, why is a model expected to reveal this on its own
>>> ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>
>>> We are on the threshold of the New Year 2025.
>>>
>>> Moreover, today, 21.12.2024, is the transition day to the New Bulgarian
>>> Year 7530, which starts tomorrow (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bgkalendar.com/?lang=en__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Xc92oO8Q5-JTYTq9TO1isPVwvqDwc0JDdLFh83S1qQOKij-zOQ0nJHaedPF2OBjaF3EbD4J4rvLDY_Wt8mtq0SHoGOcg$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bgkalendar.com/?lang=en__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Q558tG6NM4auOvNpkSnhaG3WcaPF6oRTBzEUTby2ES5aHlHvv1AO6zKAOKCxCClqC5zRL243b5927vzUsnE$>
>>> ).
>>>
>>> As the holiday season approaches, I want to express my warmest wishes
>>> for a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. May these holidays bring you
>>> peace, happiness and the opportunity to reflect on the successes and
>>> challenges of the past year. May the New Year 2025 be filled with
>>> groundbreaking discoveries, inspiring collaborations, and continued growth
>>> in all your scientific endeavors.
>>>
>>> Merry Holidays and a Happy New Year!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Warmest regards,
>>>
>>> Krassimir
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: image.png]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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