[Fis] (no subject)

Mon Dec 30 15:10:13 CET 2024

Dear colleagues,
Thank you very much for your questions and comments.

As I am not the speaker of the New Year's lecture, it is proper now to
temporarily suspend our discussion so as not to interfere with the conduct
of the lecture and the related discussion.

Be healthy and may the New Year 2025 bring you much joy!

Sincerely,
Krassimir

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На пн, 30.12.2024 г. в 13:42 <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> написа:

> Dear Karl,
>
> I am glad we can enter another year with Pedro and All. Let us wish one
> another the best!
>
> Your note reminded me of when you first argued, many years ago, that 2 X 5
> was not equal to 5 X 2, and so on. I objected and still object to your
> concept as long as 2 and 5 are numbers. It is clear that if the 2 and the 5
> refer to real objects - people or processes - 2 groups of 5 are not the
> same as 5 groups of 2. Please comment again, if you would.
>
> As to the substance of your latest note, I have something to disagree with
> in each paragraph, sometmes just with implications about which I may not be
> fully right (who is?) but which may be worth discussing. Along these lines,
> perhaps you, Karl, are the best person to tell us where you think your
> approach is weak and might be improved.
>
> 1. Once you have made your statement about "Learned Friends" I wish you
> would avoid repeating. It may or may not refer to me; in either case I find
> it irritating.
>
> 2. I do npt like Peircean and other categorizations, which I consider
> epistemid, especially if they obscure dynamic process relatioms whoch I
> consider ontic, involving changes of energy.
>
> 3. As part of a process of its "coming about" and operating, "DNA" has
> more relations than those between numbers which can be ascribed to it.
> Nothing predicatble happens with or to DNA because of them.
>
> 4. I do not like categorizing anything, such as information in its
> appearances, as a substitute fpr a dialectical disussion of the appearance
> - reality duality. The role of information in this is central, and is part
> of both science and philosophy. I don't see what using the term "technical"
> brings here.
>
> 5. I think the best philosophical parts of our discussion that refer to
> the human condition involve more than neurology. Our neurology is something
> to be moved to and from something else which is, for me, our existence.
>
> In conclusion, all of your terms can be retained, Karl, but only if their
> dynamic relation with other terms is allowed.
>
> Thank you and again best wishes,
> Joe
>
>
> Le 25.12.2024 19:48 CET, Karl Javorszky <karl.javorszky at gmail.com> a
> écrit :
>
>
> There are tendencies to make the scope of FIS smaller and more regulated.
> On the other hand, some arguments speak for keeping or even enlarging the
> catalog of subjects, the discussion of which enlightens and pleases the
> Learned Friends.
>
> Do not take off the fis list your attempts to clarify, categorise, typify
> information in its appearances.
>
> Such exchanges are the first reason we have assembled. The delineation
> between pure Techné and epistemology is important. Once we agree that say
> DNA needs to have iterations (because of the relations among 32, 97, 129)
> then the resulting big data crunch is applied science and no more
> philosophy.
>
> Philosophical questions remain, as one is undecided how to deal with the
> over-determination and how to count the extents of the part-truths which in
> their ensemble constitute the certainty. We don't have any ideas yet what
> to count, eg with respect to lust, inner balance, curiosity or evoking a
> memory content.
> These levels, aspects, prospects are yet philosophical, not in the
> technical process.
>
> Please keep the deliberations re catalog of current definitions of
> information,
> re what part of the work we do here is philosophical inquiry and what part
> is simply doing the necessary calculations. We can trust each other and any
> new soloist Pedro will introduce that their ideas will be attended to, even
> while we keep discussing our everlasting hobby / obsession, how to
> understand our own neurology.
>
> Don't go offline with the juiciest bits, if you don't mind.
>
> Karl
>
>
> Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 25. Dez. 2024,
> 19:09:
>
> Dear Jason,
> Thanks for the very interesting letter!
>
> I have been meaning to write an analysis of the relationship between these
> two definitions for a long time. Perhaps now is the time to pay some
> attention to this matter.
>
> Yes, there is an intersection between the two definitions, and that's
> wonderful. But I think it's just an intersection, not a coincidence.
>
> Since a New Year's Lecture is held at the beginning of each year in the
> FIS list, and our conversation is unlikely to be interesting for everyone,
> I propose to discuss your idea and my considerations through a personal
> exchange of letters.
>
> Of course, there is nothing secret about this conversation, so let anyone
> who would like to take part in it write to me and that way they will be
> included in the conversation and will be able to express their opinions.
>
> My email address for this conversation is:
>  Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com>
>
> Happy Holidays and Happy New Year 2025!
> With best wishes,
> Krassimir
>
>
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> На сб, 21.12.2024 г. в 16:38 Jason Hu <jasonthegoodman at gmail.com> написа:
>
> Dear Krassimir and all colleagues,
>
> Would it be better if Information = Data*Meaning ?
>
> From a constructivist point of view, if Data = null or if Meaning = null
> then there is no information.
>
> Combining with my earlier suggestion that Information = A difference(d1)
> that maks a difference (d2), d1=data, d2=meaning;
> And we have d1=data=f(measurement), d2=meaning=f(cognition);
>
> For d1 you need to use your hand, take out your ruler and perform the
> measure; ("ruler" can expand to telescope, microscope, X-ray machine, MRI,
> CT, ... and what I call SysScope (System Thinking) and CybScope (Cybernetic
> Thinking));
> For d2 you obtain some "ah-ha" by running the little machine inside your
> head (most likely with outside assistant, such as, a pencil, a calculator,
> a computer, a ChatGPT, etc.)
>
> Therefore, d1 is "a desire to know," d2 is "result of knowing,"
> Information is therefore manufactured, or an emergence, of the loop of
> inquiry, which is a capacity that the Creator installed within us.
>
> Russell Ackoff had a good formula:
> Data(result of measurement) < Information < Knowledge < Understanding <
> Wisdom;
> I think each layer above is an emergence emerged from the self-organizing
> circular-causalities of our brain, i.e. eigenstates at different levels.
>
> Merry Christamas and Happy New Year! - Jason
> ------------------------------------
> Jason Jixuan Hu, Ph.D.
> Independent Research Scholar
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>
> On Sat, Dec 21, 2024 at 5:15 AM Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Xueshan,
>
> Thanks for the detailed answer.
>
> I will add that just as mathematics develops as (theoretical) mathematics
> and applied mathematics in different areas of practice, so too does
> information science develop as (theoretical) information science and
> applied information science in different areas of reality. Computer Science
> and Informatics develop as extensions of information science, directly
> related to the practice and implementation of machines for operating with
> data and knowledge.
>
> Therefore, I think it is justified to talk about:
>
> - information science and studies;
>
> - applied information science and studies.
>
> I have a proposal for the subject and foundations of this science, but now
> is not the time to start such a discussion. Perhaps I will first publish
> concise texts that will be available for discussion.
>
>
>
> Dear Christophe,
>
> Of course, as it is  pointed out in 2017 in our joint paper from the FIS
> discussion, information is data with meaning, i.e.
>
> information = data + meaning
>
> Let's do a little transformation and transfer the "meaning" to the other
> side. We get:
>
> information - meaning = data
>
> Since data are reflections in the receptors of the subject, we can say
> that:
>
> information - meaning = reflection, in a particular case = data.
>
> This consideration allows us to say that all developments and definitions
> based on "information without meaning" refer to reflections, in particular
> - data, and do not concern the information with which subjects operate. In
> fact, they all rediscover or further develop parts of the Theory of
> Reflections.
>
>
>
> Dear Gordana,
>
> I think I gave in my response to Xueshan above the answer to your question
> "What do we want the study of information to be?"
>
> My answer to your other question, “Can we live with a plurality of notions
> of information?", is:
>
> - Yes, we can live with multiple definitions of information, but in fact
> there are not that many. In addition, some definitions define something
> else, but not the concept of "information", as we saw above. I will note,
> however, that it is difficult to find the methodological and factual
> shortcomings of the proposed new definitions, and this helps them to swarm.
>
> For example, regarding the publication of Stu Kaufman and Andrea Rolli, I
> will remember that I see in it a serious methodological flaw.
>
> I also argue " that no mathematics based on set theory can be used to
> deduce the diachronic emergence of adaptations in evolution". But this does
> not mean " that there can be no Final Theory that entails the becoming of
> the universe". Simply because modern mathematics has given us other tools,
> on the one hand, and on the other, there are a number of simulation
> approaches and systems that allow modeling these processes.
>
> In addition, we must remember that models are not reality itself, but its
> partial reflection, and therefore we cannot recreate reality through
> models, but we can externalize some of our ideas about it, creating
> corresponded models and thus make them available to other scientists who
> can continue further.
>
> But if we have no ideas, what do we expect our models to contain? This is
> exactly the case with the "becoming of the universe".
>
> If no one has any idea, why is a model expected to reveal this on its own?
>
>
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> We are on the threshold of the New Year 2025.
>
> Moreover, today, 21.12.2024, is the transition day to the New Bulgarian
> Year 7530, which starts tomorrow (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bgkalendar.com/?lang=en__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U8Nkh5EtBg84mVTVQoohYwdN4dxZIYJxZDUuBVZe0u8qkmvwqN9-QAML7i3I1u2NvxakhhorUGUst4TILXg$ 
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> ).
>
> As the holiday season approaches, I want to express my warmest wishes for
> a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. May these holidays bring you peace,
> happiness and the opportunity to reflect on the successes and challenges of
> the past year. May the New Year 2025 be filled with groundbreaking
> discoveries, inspiring collaborations, and continued growth in all your
> scientific endeavors.
>
> Merry Holidays and a Happy New Year!
>
>
>
> Warmest regards,
>
> Krassimir
>
>
> [image: image.png]
>
>
>
>
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