[Fis] Fwd: Various Thoughts . . .

Sun Dec 15 15:10:40 CET 2024

I'm entirely serious. And I suggest a hypothesis: the challenge of defining
"definition" and the challenge of defining "information" is essentially the
same.

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024, 13:41 Marcus Abundis, <55mrcs at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Again, I am reposting a comment from Jason that did not make it to the
> FIS listserver – so I expect this will NOT be counted against my 2-3 posts
> allowed each week (which resets on Monday, anyway).
>
> Jason – please take steps directly with Pedro to make sure your posts
> correctly appear on FIS. I will not forward any more of your posts. Thanks!
>
> Mark – serious, satire, or humor? I am not sure which you intended . . .
> but I accept/approve in any case. I think universal (informatic) taxonomy
> and pedagogy suitably frames the essential need to be addressed.
> M!
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Jason Hu <jasonthegoodman at gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, Dec 15, 2024 at 12:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fis] Various Thoughts . . .
> To: Mark Johnson <johnsonmwj1 at gmail.com>
> Cc: Marcus Abundis <55mrcs at gmail.com>, fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>, Jason
> Cheung <jcheung889 at gmail.com>
>
>
> Dear Mark,
> A definition is an explanation of a term/word/concept that describes a
> phenomenon emerging in the cognitive systems of a group of people. Two
> features of it must be highlighted: (1) it is cognitive-system based; (2)
> it is group consensus-based.
> Therefore, to define something, we must first "see it," i.e., cognition,
> and second, "we"(the group or the community) must "build a consensus."
> Thus, it is natural that people argue because a consensus has yet to emerge
> due to the diversity of cognitive system differences within the group, and
> the group might be enlarging.
> Best - Jason
>
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2024 at 4:39 AM Mark Johnson <johnsonmwj1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I think both FIS and the Club of Remy have provided plenty of examples of
>> the problem. I agree with Jason that video can help because we get to
>> "know" the people involved better. That's important because we use our
>> technical words always in a relational context.
>>
>> But I wonder if it is perhaps necessary to define "definition" first.
>> (And we might find we cannot do that either!) Might not the difficulty in
>> defining "information" sit in controversy as to what a definition is? That
>> is relational too...
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024, 10:57 Marcus Abundis, <55mrcs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Jason – it looks like your post did NOT make it to the FIS
>>> listerserver (as far as I can tell). Are you actually *enrolled* in the FIS
>>> group? While I think anyone can READ FIS posts, I think you need to
>>> actually enroll on FIS to make FIS posts. Regardless, I have copied your
>>> message below for others to read.
>>>
>>> Also, while I appreciate your bringing this alternate venue to our
>>> attention (assuming you enroll and repost) . . . what *I* had in mind for
>>> collaboration was much more limited/narrow in the called upon number of
>>> contributors. The more-open approach your venue seems to suggest will (I
>>> think – yes, I read the description) only marginally improve on the current
>>> situation. What I had in mind, and what I think is called for is a much
>>> narrower actively collaborative document (many venues for this exist) that
>>> is later commented on by the larger FIS group.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: --]
>>> Marcus Abundis
>>> [image: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://*about.me/marcus.abundis__;XQ!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QfxUWXvm62uPttS7P2jKf0FqgF3TejWRKuF02gZyNVX0c6LaqgZdSLwZvyLlswQjPlRggBUj6SwsBsdndVvhYOE$ 
>>>
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://about.me/marcus.abundis?promo=email_sig__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrmx3jEeO$>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 15, 2024 at 6:35 AM Jason Hu <jasonthegoodman at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Dear Marcus and All,
>>>
>>> I have been observing these conversations for a few weeks and see the
>>> pain of some of you struggling from individual cognition towards possible
>>> collective cognition or from individual wisdom towards some kind of
>>> collective wisdom, a very difficult task indeed. (Quote Marcus: "a very
>>> sore point and extraordinarily chronic – to the point of even inspiring too
>>> many odd/unhelpful/egoic insults and attacks..., ...How shall we proceed?
>>> ..., ...this goal might be best pursued by 2-3? committed (BEST QUALIFIED,
>>> non-egoic ‘fair witnesses’) individuals most likely equal to the task-
>>> perhaps working on a collaborative online document . .")
>>>
>>> My suggestion is that you can consider upgrading your mode of
>>> conversation from text email into face-to-face online meetings. Let me
>>> introduce you the platform of Club of Remy (sometimes called
>>> Mini-Macy-Meetings or "M cube.")
>>>
>>> "Mini" because we hold a discussion session if there are three
>>> colleagues interested in a same or similar topic, e.g., "How do we define
>>> information?" (Historical Macy Meetings had about thirty participants, so
>>> we are 1/10 in size) Each person prepare 7 PPT slides to highlight his/her
>>> points, to be presented on the meeting. So that will take the first hour.
>>> In the second hour, the three discussants engage into a deep "meeting of
>>> the minds." Audience are welcome but not neccessary, they can joing the
>>> discussion or just listen. The whole process is recorded and upload to
>>> YouTube for later viewers. Simple, effective, powerful.
>>>
>>> The Club of Remy website introduce this process in detail:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QfxUWXvm62uPttS7P2jKf0FqgF3TejWRKuF02gZyNVX0c6LaqgZdSLwZvyLlswQjPlRggBUj6SwsBsdnNAG9qq0$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxri_Z2AF1$>
>>> You can find our video recordings here:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://YouTube.com@clubofremy/videos__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QfxUWXvm62uPttS7P2jKf0FqgF3TejWRKuF02gZyNVX0c6LaqgZdSLwZvyLlswQjPlRggBUj6SwsBsdn94s6cdo$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://YouTube.com@clubofremy/videos__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrtf2zoXm$>
>>>
>>> Interested colleagues can send me a Title-Abstract-Outline of the topic
>>> you want to discuss (one page or one screenful in length). I post it to our
>>> club members (about 200) and perhaps to FIS members in this case. If there
>>> are two more people signing up to be discussants, the three will pick up a
>>> date. We usually have our meetings on Wednesdays (The historical Macy
>>> Meetings were on Tuesdays.)
>>>
>>> I hope this message will qualify as "information" for you, i.e., "A
>>> difference that makes a difference." Even you are not accepting is this
>>> suggestion, it might provoke your thinking too.
>>>
>>> Best regards - Jason
>>> ------------------------------------
>>> Jason Jixuan Hu, Ph.D.
>>> Independent Research Scholar
>>> Organizer: Club of REMY:  https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QfxUWXvm62uPttS7P2jKf0FqgF3TejWRKuF02gZyNVX0c6LaqgZdSLwZvyLlswQjPlRggBUj6SwsBsdnLGighzw$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrglq6IDo$>
>>> General Partner: WINTOP Group: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.wintopgroup.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QfxUWXvm62uPttS7P2jKf0FqgF3TejWRKuF02gZyNVX0c6LaqgZdSLwZvyLlswQjPlRggBUj6SwsBsdnK0Arb9c$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.wintopgroup.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxriq4iqS3$>
>>> Introduction: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drjasonhu.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QfxUWXvm62uPttS7P2jKf0FqgF3TejWRKuF02gZyNVX0c6LaqgZdSLwZvyLlswQjPlRggBUj6SwsBsdnW4Kuu-M$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drjasonhu.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrgH_BTRL$>
>>> Wiki Page: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJH008__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QfxUWXvm62uPttS7P2jKf0FqgF3TejWRKuF02gZyNVX0c6LaqgZdSLwZvyLlswQjPlRggBUj6SwsBsdntm1dZR4$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJH008__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrlCe-_DX$>
>>>
>>> Video: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJHsprach__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QfxUWXvm62uPttS7P2jKf0FqgF3TejWRKuF02gZyNVX0c6LaqgZdSLwZvyLlswQjPlRggBUj6SwsBsdnMHUgRZw$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJHsprach__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrsy5UYad$>
>>> office: jjh at wintopgroup.com
>>> mobile: jasonthegoodman at gmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
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> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>
> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por
> la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
> siguiente enlace:
> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
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