[Fis] Fwd: Various Thoughts . . .

[Marcus Abundis]

Again, I am reposting a comment from Jason that did not make it to the
FIS listserver – so I expect this will NOT be counted against my 2-3 posts
allowed each week (which resets on Monday, anyway).

Jason – please take steps directly with Pedro to make sure your posts
correctly appear on FIS. I will not forward any more of your posts. Thanks!

Mark – serious, satire, or humor? I am not sure which you intended . . .
but I accept/approve in any case. I think universal (informatic) taxonomy
and pedagogy suitably frames the essential need to be addressed.
M!

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Jason Hu <jasonthegoodman at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Dec 15, 2024 at 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] Various Thoughts . . .
To: Mark Johnson <johnsonmwj1 at gmail.com>
Cc: Marcus Abundis <55mrcs at gmail.com>, fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>, Jason
Cheung <jcheung889 at gmail.com>


Dear Mark,
A definition is an explanation of a term/word/concept that describes a
phenomenon emerging in the cognitive systems of a group of people. Two
features of it must be highlighted: (1) it is cognitive-system based; (2)
it is group consensus-based.
Therefore, to define something, we must first "see it," i.e., cognition,
and second, "we"(the group or the community) must "build a consensus."
Thus, it is natural that people argue because a consensus has yet to emerge
due to the diversity of cognitive system differences within the group, and
the group might be enlarging.
Best - Jason

On Sun, Dec 15, 2024 at 4:39 AM Mark Johnson <johnsonmwj1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I think both FIS and the Club of Remy have provided plenty of examples of
> the problem. I agree with Jason that video can help because we get to
> "know" the people involved better. That's important because we use our
> technical words always in a relational context.
>
> But I wonder if it is perhaps necessary to define "definition" first. (And
> we might find we cannot do that either!) Might not the difficulty in
> defining "information" sit in controversy as to what a definition is? That
> is relational too...
>
> Best wishes
>
> Mark
>
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024, 10:57 Marcus Abundis, <55mrcs at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey Jason – it looks like your post did NOT make it to the FIS
>> listerserver (as far as I can tell). Are you actually *enrolled* in the FIS
>> group? While I think anyone can READ FIS posts, I think you need to
>> actually enroll on FIS to make FIS posts. Regardless, I have copied your
>> message below for others to read.
>>
>> Also, while I appreciate your bringing this alternate venue to our
>> attention (assuming you enroll and repost) . . . what *I* had in mind for
>> collaboration was much more limited/narrow in the called upon number of
>> contributors. The more-open approach your venue seems to suggest will (I
>> think – yes, I read the description) only marginally improve on the current
>> situation. What I had in mind, and what I think is called for is a much
>> narrower actively collaborative document (many venues for this exist) that
>> is later commented on by the larger FIS group.
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: --]
>> Marcus Abundis
>> [image: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://*about.me/marcus.abundis__;XQ!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VtUSKu6meNIhwwagQiTf9TnQGhCw7pfFnmB_vP4wo9JwAQJlHlHU1qmel3SrfZTOiPQfFwvS6Wb0KcBU$ 
>>
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://about.me/marcus.abundis?promo=email_sig__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrmx3jEeO$>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 15, 2024 at 6:35 AM Jason Hu <jasonthegoodman at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> Dear Marcus and All,
>>
>> I have been observing these conversations for a few weeks and see the
>> pain of some of you struggling from individual cognition towards possible
>> collective cognition or from individual wisdom towards some kind of
>> collective wisdom, a very difficult task indeed. (Quote Marcus: "a very
>> sore point and extraordinarily chronic – to the point of even inspiring too
>> many odd/unhelpful/egoic insults and attacks..., ...How shall we proceed?
>> ..., ...this goal might be best pursued by 2-3? committed (BEST QUALIFIED,
>> non-egoic ‘fair witnesses’) individuals most likely equal to the task-
>> perhaps working on a collaborative online document . .")
>>
>> My suggestion is that you can consider upgrading your mode of
>> conversation from text email into face-to-face online meetings. Let me
>> introduce you the platform of Club of Remy (sometimes called
>> Mini-Macy-Meetings or "M cube.")
>>
>> "Mini" because we hold a discussion session if there are three colleagues
>> interested in a same or similar topic, e.g., "How do we define
>> information?" (Historical Macy Meetings had about thirty participants, so
>> we are 1/10 in size) Each person prepare 7 PPT slides to highlight his/her
>> points, to be presented on the meeting. So that will take the first hour.
>> In the second hour, the three discussants engage into a deep "meeting of
>> the minds." Audience are welcome but not neccessary, they can joing the
>> discussion or just listen. The whole process is recorded and upload to
>> YouTube for later viewers. Simple, effective, powerful.
>>
>> The Club of Remy website introduce this process in detail:
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VtUSKu6meNIhwwagQiTf9TnQGhCw7pfFnmB_vP4wo9JwAQJlHlHU1qmel3SrfZTOiPQfFwvS6YtqMBeI$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxri_Z2AF1$>
>> You can find our video recordings here:
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://YouTube.com@clubofremy/videos__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VtUSKu6meNIhwwagQiTf9TnQGhCw7pfFnmB_vP4wo9JwAQJlHlHU1qmel3SrfZTOiPQfFwvS6ZGA6JzT$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://YouTube.com@clubofremy/videos__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrtf2zoXm$>
>>
>> Interested colleagues can send me a Title-Abstract-Outline of the topic
>> you want to discuss (one page or one screenful in length). I post it to our
>> club members (about 200) and perhaps to FIS members in this case. If there
>> are two more people signing up to be discussants, the three will pick up a
>> date. We usually have our meetings on Wednesdays (The historical Macy
>> Meetings were on Tuesdays.)
>>
>> I hope this message will qualify as "information" for you, i.e., "A
>> difference that makes a difference." Even you are not accepting is this
>> suggestion, it might provoke your thinking too.
>>
>> Best regards - Jason
>> ------------------------------------
>> Jason Jixuan Hu, Ph.D.
>> Independent Research Scholar
>> Organizer: Club of REMY:  https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VtUSKu6meNIhwwagQiTf9TnQGhCw7pfFnmB_vP4wo9JwAQJlHlHU1qmel3SrfZTOiPQfFwvS6VHcGwYI$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrglq6IDo$>
>> General Partner: WINTOP Group: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.wintopgroup.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VtUSKu6meNIhwwagQiTf9TnQGhCw7pfFnmB_vP4wo9JwAQJlHlHU1qmel3SrfZTOiPQfFwvS6TjpFPwp$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.wintopgroup.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxriq4iqS3$>
>> Introduction: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drjasonhu.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VtUSKu6meNIhwwagQiTf9TnQGhCw7pfFnmB_vP4wo9JwAQJlHlHU1qmel3SrfZTOiPQfFwvS6aiapZd0$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drjasonhu.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrgH_BTRL$>
>> Wiki Page: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJH008__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VtUSKu6meNIhwwagQiTf9TnQGhCw7pfFnmB_vP4wo9JwAQJlHlHU1qmel3SrfZTOiPQfFwvS6envVed8$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJH008__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrlCe-_DX$>
>>
>> Video: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJHsprach__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VtUSKu6meNIhwwagQiTf9TnQGhCw7pfFnmB_vP4wo9JwAQJlHlHU1qmel3SrfZTOiPQfFwvS6RYMe_6P$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJHsprach__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UWQW0t9Ug0Bgiwpkm9jAz71kXj__qyALTdskOQ-T9rcqwpf_Ln3ImgzfB1mGxBwWQr31aKLxrsy5UYad$>
>> office: jjh at wintopgroup.com
>> mobile: jasonthegoodman at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
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