[Fis] [External Email] Re: DECRETUM: Concordance of the Discordant. AFFORDANCE

[Francesco Rizzo]

Cari amici del Fis,
sto seguendo in un ascolto silenzioso il Vostro (e nostro dibattito). Mi
permetto di farVi notare o ricordare che qualunque 'informazione
sta al centro della strategica triade semiotica:significazione,
informazione, comunicazione. Quindi, informare (anabolicamente)
o deformare (catabolicamente) significa dare forma a qualcosa che ha un
valore o fare perdere forma a qualcosa che
è un dis-valore. In estrema sintesi l'informazione non è una notizia, ma un
valore o dis-valore. Non aggiungo altro che, alla
bi-sogna, si trova in una serie numerosa dei miei libri a partire da
"Valore e valutazioni" (FrancoAngeli, Milano, 1-4 ed.1999)
che Pedro conosce.
Con la gratitudine di sempre Vi dico grazie e Vi abbraccio Tutti.
Francesco Rizzo


Il giorno lun 29 nov 2021 alle ore 17:39 Karl Javorszky <
karl.javorszky en gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Dear Joseph and Stan,
>
>
>
> Thank you again for pointing out in which fields we need to coordinate
> what one means when one refers to information. (Thank Wittgenstein, we can
> be confident that we shall arrive at a concept that is as common as it can
> get in our separate brains.)
>
> The apparent controversy between me comparing the essence of information
> to flour extracted from wheat and Stan’s ideas to the utilised forms of the
> same substance, and your pointed retort, in which you say that the essence
> of information lies in the distinction whether a box containing cakes is a
> gift r rather a merchandise to be paid for – if this translation of your
> implied self-reference is allowed.
>
> We work on two different levels. I am doing the janitor’s work who
> investigates, where the seepage comes from, and you discuss kinds of moulds
> to flowers that can survive by using the wetness that is everywhere in
> quite many forms.
>
> In both my examples: flour, seepage, the idea should come across, that we
> have identified the source of the manifold phaenomena we meet in everyday
> life and also in theory. There are two parts that both include something,
> like milling stones or plumbing connections, and there is an inexactitude
> between the two parts. The inexactitude is advantageous in the case of
> milling wheat, because the extent of inexactitude between the two stones
> determines the fineness of the flour. In the case of two sections of
> plumbing not fitting ideally and allowing a seep, the connotations are
> usually negative. There is something fractured between the millstones of
> reality. Reality is urging to be seen as a duality, in which the two parts
> do not fit quite exactly.
>
> That what is being finely ground is not lost. That is information.
> Information is the re-elementarised substance of logical relations, the
> junk that comes from de-structuring alternatives that also could have been.
>
> That what is the case is contained in that what can be the case. That what
> has become the case is as different to that which is not the case, as *a *is
> different to *b. *The remaining alternatives keep existing, but they
> suffer a de-structuralisation.
>
> In a game, in Situation X player is confronted with decision whether to
> prepare for war against A or against B. After it has become clear that only
> 1 enemy attacks, and this is A, the troops that were assembled during
> preparation for a war with B and for a war against both, can be
> demobilised. The process of un-structuring an army or two is comparable to
> the grinding of wheat into flour. The structure, the administration gets
> annihilated, not the reservists.
>
> There will be many better and more didactic examples for a hands-on
> transmission of the idea how information is generated and of what. The
> concept needs two interdependent parts that have manifold relations between
> each other. One can easily demonstrate conflicting requirements affecting
> elements of a collection by sorting and ordering the collection on
> different aspects. That demonstration uses terms like ‘sequence’, ‘order’,
> ‘aspect’ and so forth, thereby already on a higher abstraction level than
> the most basic logical experiences a child can make. Sorting, ordering,
> cycles and all that are already discussing the various forms of
> information. Here, we want to find its most basic variant, which must then
> lie in a simple two-dimensional world. Information as such in its axiomatic
> form is the difference between ‘same’ and ‘different’ which the neurology
> of the baby processes. Indeed, it is the relation between similar and
> diverse which serves as the two grinding stones de-structuring alternatives
> that have not come to pass.
>
> 1. The basic duality must be understood
>
> 2. The two readings relate to similarities and diversities
>
> 3. Both parts of the duality have some common property: the number of
> their elements and the number of relations that exist on that number of
> elements
>
> 4. The 3 contributors to the equilibrium are: number of elements, number
> of similarities among the elements, number of diversities among the elements
>
> 5. Their relations do not map quite exactly into each other, see
> oeis.org/A242615.
>
> 6. There exist expected values based on: {(# el, # sim), (# el, # div), (#
> sim, # div)} for the 3rd value
>
> 7. The actual values are in deviation to the expected values, as a rule.
>
> 8. There is a numeric extent to the deviation; this extent has many
> measurement forms: it should be called information.
>
>
>
> The satisfaction of the miller on understanding the relation between wheat
> and flour is of course of no great relevance for the tradesmen in
> delicatessen, although in all probability they also calculate based on the
> odd vs common, average vs unusual, extraordinary vs as expected properties
> of their merchandise. In whichever interaction, the extent of being
> otherwise is the ultimate argument, be it choosing food, habitat or a mate.
>
> We have found the fundamental explanation to the content of the concept of
> ‘extent of being otherwise’ by connecting that what can be otherwise to
> that what is such as it is. We use the natural numbers to anchor the
> information measurement device. Sliding like on pairwise rails, we generate
> expectations based on two of the three aspects of a description of the
> state of the world. Relative to how many they are and how {*similar,
> diverse*} they are, we expect them to be so {*diverse, similar*}.
> Relative to how diverse they are, we expect them so {*many, similar*}.
> Relative to how similar they are, we expect them to be so {*many, diverse*}.
>
>
>
>
> The short of it: information is the extent of a deviation. What deviates
> from what is freely chosen. In the context you operate, it is the deviation
> between the intended meaning to the meaning understood, or something on
> that complexity level, if I have understood you right. In the
> infrastructure room, one is happy that one has found how information has
> always been a part of the picture, only we have not noticed it so far.
> Information is the collection of the constituents of alternatives that have
> not been realised. This is an immanent feature of the numbering system and
> can be captured by using a three-way ledger. This has nothing to do yet
> with what Joseph and Stan discuss, nevertheless the rational kernel of the
> statements of Joseph and Stan will be retractable to expectations and
> observations, and the difference theseof. It is a very important,
> fundamental axiom that a) two functions cross twice b) objects are but a
> different name for structures c) the diversity/similarity coefficient
> varies with *n *locally, but is invariant to *n *globally d) the
> deviation - the information – can have an independent accounting existence,
> can add up and reach thresholds. This is a world view which has done away
> with dichotomies and polarisations. The basic concept is that everything is
> as usual. The usual has many ways to be present. The most usual has many
> forms. These forms can be recognised among the patterns that elements of a
> simple collection produce when subjected to periodic changes.
>
> To summarise: my statement that information is contained in the fabric of
> reality does not contradict your statement that information has forms,
> established usage patterns and is accepted as part of the furniture of our
> intellectual world. I say: this kind of water that flows among the cells of
> the sugar cane is information, you say: bonbons are fine gifts.
>
>
>
> Thanks again for your interest.
>
> Karl
>
>
>
> Am Fr., 26. Nov. 2021 um 14:37 Uhr schrieb joe.brenner en bluewin.ch <
> joe.brenner en bluewin.ch>:
>
>> Dear Karl,
>>
>> With my really best wishes, I think you have missed Stan's point. Your
>> example is "blocked" at wheat, flour and bread - inbuilt features. Even
>> though there are processes connecting them - wheat has the potential for
>> becoming flour and flour bread, there is no dynamic self/recursion.
>>
>> Stan's AFFORDANCE is an example of of the latter. It is a demonstration
>> of the dynamic "dimension" of information, which is and carries meaning.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> ----Message d'origine----
>> De : karl.javorszky en gmail.com
>> Date : 26/11/2021 - 06:51 (E)
>> À : ssalthe en binghamton.edu
>> Cc : fis en listas.unizar.es
>> Objet : Re: [Fis] [External Email] Re: DECRETUM: Concordance of the
>> Discordant
>>
>> Dear Stan,
>>
>> Thank you for reading my for-the-record contribution.
>>
>> Let me reformulate your thoughts on AFFORDANCE being the main point of
>> information, by demonstrating the ideas on the example of wheat, flour and
>> bread.
>>
>> I say flour is immanent to wheat.
>> You say feeding is the test of the flour, therefore he who can afford
>> bread is well fed.
>>
>> Basically, we have no contradictions between our opinions.
>>
>> Karl
>>
>>
>> Stanley N Salthe < ssalthe en binghamton.edu> schrieb am Do., 25. Nov.
>> 2021, 16:11:
>>
>>> Karl -- Regarding your:
>>> " information is an inbuilt feature in a world which does not segregate
>>> descriptions due to neurological expediency"
>>>
>>> I think that information is not so much an inbuilt Part of the world as
>>> an AFFORDANCE allowing its creation by those that need to, or wish to, be
>>> informed.
>>> STAN
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 9:53 AM Karl Javorszky <
>>> karl.javorszky en gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Pedro,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> you have always been a choice diplomat. Your reasoning on the necessity
>>>> of the task before us formulates quite elegantly: “…the lack of a nucleus
>>>> of new thought on which to edifice and extend the alternative paradigm.”
>>>> This is overdoing diplomacy, a white lie. There does exist indeed a nucleus
>>>> of new thought that can serve as the basic skeleton of a powerful
>>>> transition in epistemology towards a new paradigm. The new paradigm has
>>>> been found solidly rooted in the old paradigms, living in a small fissure
>>>> between the parts of the whole.
>>>>
>>>> Those world views, where there exists no transition between parts of a
>>>> whole, where the parts weld seamlessly, are the basis for the present
>>>> system of paradigms we live in. The unified world view has been enforced by
>>>> the sword in the Cathar Crusades.
>>>>
>>>> The new world view accepts that there is a basic duality, and that
>>>> there are manifold relations between the parts that make up a whole. As
>>>> Wittgenstein has pointed out, our own neurology sets the difficulties and
>>>> limits in that what we can understand and interpersonally talk about. The
>>>> two parts of the whole are in the new paradigm those neuronal references
>>>> that describe the diversity of objects as opposed to the similarity of the
>>>> objects perceived. The two opposing parts that make up the whole are the
>>>> signals neurology produces on sensing an object, split into descriptions
>>>> about how diverse the situation is and into how similar the situation is.
>>>> Our neurology uses two screens as two backgrounds to refer to something
>>>> that is as well similar and diverse, like all impressions a new-born
>>>> receives. When perceiving a multitude, our neurology splits those tokens
>>>> that refer to similarities among elements of the multitude from tokens that
>>>> refer to diversities among the elements of the multitude.
>>>>
>>>> The good news is that the extent of dis-calibration among the two parts
>>>> of the world has been tracked down and can be solidly connected to the
>>>> well-know fundament built by the natural numbers. We simply have to undo
>>>> the split neurology has presented us with, by 1) acknowledging its
>>>> existence, 2) create suitable measurement devices to correct the effects of
>>>> the split. After these steps, one may 3) apply principles of interferometry
>>>> while employing two measurement devices that are in a defined way
>>>> dis-calibrated relative to each other.
>>>>
>>>> The existence of a split in results of measurements in two dimensions
>>>> is a problem of proportions. The two descriptive dimensions are similarity
>>>> and diversity. How much diversity can exist in an assembly, and this
>>>> relative to how manifold ways of inner similarities are there, is in itself
>>>> a composite. How diverse relative to how similar is a basic property of
>>>> assemblies, even though our neurology processes the two aspects in two
>>>> channels and merges them again in cognition. The linear dis-calibrations
>>>> disappear, next to *n=1* also at *n=32, 97. *There is a very slight
>>>> slack between the two functions, near *n=11, 66*. The two measurement
>>>> rods will cease to refer meaningfully to each other above *n=140. *There
>>>> is a critical region at *n={136,137}, *where the relative bias first
>>>> reaches the extent of a whole unit. (It appears Eddington was right.) The
>>>> relations between: how many – how diverse – how similar will keep their
>>>> mutual restrictions, regardless of which unit one chooses *n *to be,
>>>> from the smallest to the biggest of collections of parts will be subject to
>>>> the interdependence.(From sub-molecular to galactic.)
>>>>
>>>> There may be reluctance to see the hologram of the Holy Grail. There
>>>> exists an aspect of assemblies, namely how diverse their members are among
>>>> themselves. There exists an aspect of assemblies, namely how similar their
>>>> members are among themselves. There is a quotient between these two
>>>> measurements. The ideal range of this quotient varies with the number of
>>>> members in the assembly.
>>>>
>>>> The world view offered by reading a philosophy into the picture of two
>>>> functions crossing twice is basically a dual one. Using the concept as a
>>>> link to established results can help integrating the new paradigm into the
>>>> system built up by the traditional ones.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, Pedro indeed, please allow me to state for the record that the
>>>> simple facts presented in *oeis.org/A242615 <http://oeis.org/A242615>*are,
>>>> in my opinion, a nucleus of new thought. It was important for Mendel to
>>>> have his opinion recorded that the rules he observed are of a fundamental
>>>> nature. Of course, lacking the vocabulary, hypotheses, experiments,
>>>> observations, his contemporaries stood uncomprehending before his
>>>> explanations. One who does not see the cracks between the parts of the
>>>> whole, will make no use of their forms, patterns or their eligibility as
>>>> habitat. Mendel’s idea was that the rule is separable from its carrier, but
>>>> is immanent to that. His contemporaries were still puzzling about who and
>>>> when and how has created the mysteries of heritage, while Mendel shouted:
>>>> it is in the matter itself, not an outside invention or a creation! Today,
>>>> learned colleagues wonder how the mysteries of being otherwise relate to
>>>> the rules of being such as expected, and need remembering that the answer
>>>> is in the matter itself: information is an inbuilt feature in a world which
>>>> does not segregate descriptions due to neurological expediency.
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am Mi., 24. Nov. 2021 um 14:03 Uhr schrieb Pedro C. Marijuán <
>>>> pedroc.marijuan en gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>
>>>>> In response to Joseph and Krassimir, I think there might be an
>>>>> important first step. Taking (for clarity) Yixin's terminology on "paradigm
>>>>> revolution" in information science, the problem becomes clear: the lack of
>>>>> a nucleus of new thought on which to edifice and extend the alternative
>>>>> paradigm. Some of my learned colleagues will energetically exhibit their
>>>>> own constructions, myself included, but helas (or alas)...  Then, all
>>>>> compilations, thesaurus, recollections, etc. we may attempt become just
>>>>> interesting learned exercises.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our medieval colleague, Doctor Gratianus was indeed initiating
>>>>> "scientia nova" in Canon Law, as he was achieving the concordance of the
>>>>> discordant (basically between the multiplicity of civil laws and religious
>>>>> canons) by applying the central principle of rationality and of common
>>>>> sense (both!) to the multiple legal situations of social life. It was a new
>>>>> way of thinking in that time, continued by more brilliant thinkers in the
>>>>> following centuries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where is that new thought or central principle(s) of information that
>>>>> are eluding us?
>>>>> Tomorrow I will post a poetic version of the question.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards to all,
>>>>> --Pedro
>>>>>
>>>>> El 18/11/2021 a las 16:43, joe.brenner en bluewin.ch escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Pedro,
>>>>>
>>>>> Very interesting, thank you. I will think about your methodological
>>>>> point. In the meantime, I started thinking about audiences/partners for
>>>>> this initiative. On idea was people involved in the Philosophy of Law.
>>>>> Another related field is that of ethics - a rapprochement with Rafael
>>>>> Capurro might be envisaged. The issues are too important not to make fresh
>>>>> starts everywhere one can.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >----Message d'origine--
>>>>> --
>>>>> >De : pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es
>>>>> >Date : 18/11/2021 - 14:24 (E)
>>>>> >À : fis en listas.unizar.es
>>>>> >Objet : [Fis] DECRETUM: Concordance of the Discordant
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Dear FIS Colleagues,
>>>>> >
>>>>> >In the early XII Century, something very interesting occurred around
>>>>> the
>>>>> >first university created in Europe (Bologna). The situation of law in
>>>>> >that time was very confusing, with overlapping civil and religious
>>>>> >canons that had been developed independently. Gratian (Gratianus) was
>>>>> a
>>>>> >fine jurist and canon lawyer operating in Tuscany, and teacher, and
>>>>> >monastic rubricator in Bologna. He produced an admirable synthesis,
>>>>> >Decretum: Concordia Discordantium Canonum. In the first, more
>>>>> concise,
>>>>> >version, the synthetic work was framed in three parts: a sophisticate
>>>>> >Introduction in which fundamental Distinctiones (distinctions) were
>>>>> >made, and a second part with 36 causae or situations divided into
>>>>> >concrete questions with systematic commentaries (Summae). The third
>>>>> >part  discussed the difficulties, bringing forward solutions via
>>>>> >different auctoritates from a variety of sources.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >The work supposed a watershed for Western Law. He was acclaimed as
>>>>> >Father of the Canon Law, appreciatively cited in Dante's Divine
>>>>> Comedy
>>>>> >(with a place in Paradise!), and considered as the creator of
>>>>> rational
>>>>> >law. Gratian himself coined the term "scientia nova" (new science)
>>>>> >referring to his synthesis, which indeed became highly influential
>>>>> >outside law, particularly concerning his methodology of questions and
>>>>> >systematic commentaries or Summae. Actually, later great synthesizers
>>>>> in
>>>>> >philosophy and theology (Albertus Magnus, Thomas Aquinas) were
>>>>> >influenced by his method, as well the further development of the
>>>>> >Scholastic School in next centuries...
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Could the reflection on Doctor Gratianus strenuous work & clever
>>>>> >methodology, bringing concordance among the discordant, be of
>>>>> interest
>>>>> >for our troubles on the general study of information and on the
>>>>> >foundations of information science in particular? In my own case,
>>>>> those
>>>>> >ten fundamental principles I penned time ago, could be easily
>>>>> >transformed into a few of the questions... Rather than looking for
>>>>> the
>>>>> >single, exclusive point of view, the participation in establishing
>>>>> >concordance among the discordant via a multidisciplinary spattering
>>>>> of
>>>>> >basic questions is what transpires when one contemplates the historic
>>>>> of
>>>>> >our list debates. See the 64 "questions" FIS has dealt with up to
>>>>> now:
>>>>> >https://fis.sciforum.net/fis-discussion-sessions/  Of course, with
>>>>> >hindsight, it could be done better.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >All the best,
>>>>> >
>>>>> >--Pedro
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >--
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>>>>> en busca de virus.
>>>>> >https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>> >
>>>>> >_______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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