[Fis] [External Email] Re: DECRETUM: Concordance of the Discordant. AFFORDANCE

[Karl Javorszky]

Dear Joseph and Stan,



Thank you again for pointing out in which fields we need to coordinate what
one means when one refers to information. (Thank Wittgenstein, we can be
confident that we shall arrive at a concept that is as common as it can get
in our separate brains.)

The apparent controversy between me comparing the essence of information to
flour extracted from wheat and Stan’s ideas to the utilised forms of the
same substance, and your pointed retort, in which you say that the essence
of information lies in the distinction whether a box containing cakes is a
gift r rather a merchandise to be paid for – if this translation of your
implied self-reference is allowed.

We work on two different levels. I am doing the janitor’s work who
investigates, where the seepage comes from, and you discuss kinds of moulds
to flowers that can survive by using the wetness that is everywhere in
quite many forms.

In both my examples: flour, seepage, the idea should come across, that we
have identified the source of the manifold phaenomena we meet in everyday
life and also in theory. There are two parts that both include something,
like milling stones or plumbing connections, and there is an inexactitude
between the two parts. The inexactitude is advantageous in the case of
milling wheat, because the extent of inexactitude between the two stones
determines the fineness of the flour. In the case of two sections of
plumbing not fitting ideally and allowing a seep, the connotations are
usually negative. There is something fractured between the millstones of
reality. Reality is urging to be seen as a duality, in which the two parts
do not fit quite exactly.

That what is being finely ground is not lost. That is information.
Information is the re-elementarised substance of logical relations, the
junk that comes from de-structuring alternatives that also could have been.

That what is the case is contained in that what can be the case. That what
has become the case is as different to that which is not the case, as *a *is
different to *b. *The remaining alternatives keep existing, but they suffer
a de-structuralisation.

In a game, in Situation X player is confronted with decision whether to
prepare for war against A or against B. After it has become clear that only
1 enemy attacks, and this is A, the troops that were assembled during
preparation for a war with B and for a war against both, can be
demobilised. The process of un-structuring an army or two is comparable to
the grinding of wheat into flour. The structure, the administration gets
annihilated, not the reservists.

There will be many better and more didactic examples for a hands-on
transmission of the idea how information is generated and of what. The
concept needs two interdependent parts that have manifold relations between
each other. One can easily demonstrate conflicting requirements affecting
elements of a collection by sorting and ordering the collection on
different aspects. That demonstration uses terms like ‘sequence’, ‘order’,
‘aspect’ and so forth, thereby already on a higher abstraction level than
the most basic logical experiences a child can make. Sorting, ordering,
cycles and all that are already discussing the various forms of
information. Here, we want to find its most basic variant, which must then
lie in a simple two-dimensional world. Information as such in its axiomatic
form is the difference between ‘same’ and ‘different’ which the neurology
of the baby processes. Indeed, it is the relation between similar and
diverse which serves as the two grinding stones de-structuring alternatives
that have not come to pass.

1. The basic duality must be understood

2. The two readings relate to similarities and diversities

3. Both parts of the duality have some common property: the number of their
elements and the number of relations that exist on that number of elements

4. The 3 contributors to the equilibrium are: number of elements, number of
similarities among the elements, number of diversities among the elements

5. Their relations do not map quite exactly into each other, see
oeis.org/A242615.

6. There exist expected values based on: {(# el, # sim), (# el, # div), (#
sim, # div)} for the 3rd value

7. The actual values are in deviation to the expected values, as a rule.

8. There is a numeric extent to the deviation; this extent has many
measurement forms: it should be called information.



The satisfaction of the miller on understanding the relation between wheat
and flour is of course of no great relevance for the tradesmen in
delicatessen, although in all probability they also calculate based on the
odd vs common, average vs unusual, extraordinary vs as expected properties
of their merchandise. In whichever interaction, the extent of being
otherwise is the ultimate argument, be it choosing food, habitat or a mate.

We have found the fundamental explanation to the content of the concept of
‘extent of being otherwise’ by connecting that what can be otherwise to
that what is such as it is. We use the natural numbers to anchor the
information measurement device. Sliding like on pairwise rails, we generate
expectations based on two of the three aspects of a description of the
state of the world. Relative to how many they are and how {*similar,
diverse*} they are, we expect them to be so {*diverse, similar*}. Relative
to how diverse they are, we expect them so {*many, similar*}. Relative to
how similar they are, we expect them to be so {*many, diverse*}.



The short of it: information is the extent of a deviation. What deviates
from what is freely chosen. In the context you operate, it is the deviation
between the intended meaning to the meaning understood, or something on
that complexity level, if I have understood you right. In the
infrastructure room, one is happy that one has found how information has
always been a part of the picture, only we have not noticed it so far.
Information is the collection of the constituents of alternatives that have
not been realised. This is an immanent feature of the numbering system and
can be captured by using a three-way ledger. This has nothing to do yet
with what Joseph and Stan discuss, nevertheless the rational kernel of the
statements of Joseph and Stan will be retractable to expectations and
observations, and the difference theseof. It is a very important,
fundamental axiom that a) two functions cross twice b) objects are but a
different name for structures c) the diversity/similarity coefficient
varies with *n *locally, but is invariant to *n *globally d) the deviation
- the information – can have an independent accounting existence, can add
up and reach thresholds. This is a world view which has done away with
dichotomies and polarisations. The basic concept is that everything is as
usual. The usual has many ways to be present. The most usual has many
forms. These forms can be recognised among the patterns that elements of a
simple collection produce when subjected to periodic changes.

To summarise: my statement that information is contained in the fabric of
reality does not contradict your statement that information has forms,
established usage patterns and is accepted as part of the furniture of our
intellectual world. I say: this kind of water that flows among the cells of
the sugar cane is information, you say: bonbons are fine gifts.



Thanks again for your interest.

Karl



Am Fr., 26. Nov. 2021 um 14:37 Uhr schrieb joe.brenner en bluewin.ch <
joe.brenner en bluewin.ch>:

> Dear Karl,
>
> With my really best wishes, I think you have missed Stan's point. Your
> example is "blocked" at wheat, flour and bread - inbuilt features. Even
> though there are processes connecting them - wheat has the potential for
> becoming flour and flour bread, there is no dynamic self/recursion.
>
> Stan's AFFORDANCE is an example of of the latter. It is a demonstration of
> the dynamic "dimension" of information, which is and carries meaning.
>
> Joseph
>
> ----Message d'origine----
> De : karl.javorszky en gmail.com
> Date : 26/11/2021 - 06:51 (E)
> À : ssalthe en binghamton.edu
> Cc : fis en listas.unizar.es
> Objet : Re: [Fis] [External Email] Re: DECRETUM: Concordance of the
> Discordant
>
> Dear Stan,
>
> Thank you for reading my for-the-record contribution.
>
> Let me reformulate your thoughts on AFFORDANCE being the main point of
> information, by demonstrating the ideas on the example of wheat, flour and
> bread.
>
> I say flour is immanent to wheat.
> You say feeding is the test of the flour, therefore he who can afford
> bread is well fed.
>
> Basically, we have no contradictions between our opinions.
>
> Karl
>
>
> Stanley N Salthe < ssalthe en binghamton.edu> schrieb am Do., 25. Nov. 2021,
> 16:11:
>
>> Karl -- Regarding your:
>> " information is an inbuilt feature in a world which does not segregate
>> descriptions due to neurological expediency"
>>
>> I think that information is not so much an inbuilt Part of the world as
>> an AFFORDANCE allowing its creation by those that need to, or wish to, be
>> informed.
>> STAN
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 9:53 AM Karl Javorszky < karl.javorszky en gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Pedro,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> you have always been a choice diplomat. Your reasoning on the necessity
>>> of the task before us formulates quite elegantly: “…the lack of a nucleus
>>> of new thought on which to edifice and extend the alternative paradigm.”
>>> This is overdoing diplomacy, a white lie. There does exist indeed a nucleus
>>> of new thought that can serve as the basic skeleton of a powerful
>>> transition in epistemology towards a new paradigm. The new paradigm has
>>> been found solidly rooted in the old paradigms, living in a small fissure
>>> between the parts of the whole.
>>>
>>> Those world views, where there exists no transition between parts of a
>>> whole, where the parts weld seamlessly, are the basis for the present
>>> system of paradigms we live in. The unified world view has been enforced by
>>> the sword in the Cathar Crusades.
>>>
>>> The new world view accepts that there is a basic duality, and that there
>>> are manifold relations between the parts that make up a whole. As
>>> Wittgenstein has pointed out, our own neurology sets the difficulties and
>>> limits in that what we can understand and interpersonally talk about. The
>>> two parts of the whole are in the new paradigm those neuronal references
>>> that describe the diversity of objects as opposed to the similarity of the
>>> objects perceived. The two opposing parts that make up the whole are the
>>> signals neurology produces on sensing an object, split into descriptions
>>> about how diverse the situation is and into how similar the situation is.
>>> Our neurology uses two screens as two backgrounds to refer to something
>>> that is as well similar and diverse, like all impressions a new-born
>>> receives. When perceiving a multitude, our neurology splits those tokens
>>> that refer to similarities among elements of the multitude from tokens that
>>> refer to diversities among the elements of the multitude.
>>>
>>> The good news is that the extent of dis-calibration among the two parts
>>> of the world has been tracked down and can be solidly connected to the
>>> well-know fundament built by the natural numbers. We simply have to undo
>>> the split neurology has presented us with, by 1) acknowledging its
>>> existence, 2) create suitable measurement devices to correct the effects of
>>> the split. After these steps, one may 3) apply principles of interferometry
>>> while employing two measurement devices that are in a defined way
>>> dis-calibrated relative to each other.
>>>
>>> The existence of a split in results of measurements in two dimensions is
>>> a problem of proportions. The two descriptive dimensions are similarity and
>>> diversity. How much diversity can exist in an assembly, and this relative
>>> to how manifold ways of inner similarities are there, is in itself a
>>> composite. How diverse relative to how similar is a basic property of
>>> assemblies, even though our neurology processes the two aspects in two
>>> channels and merges them again in cognition. The linear dis-calibrations
>>> disappear, next to *n=1* also at *n=32, 97. *There is a very slight
>>> slack between the two functions, near *n=11, 66*. The two measurement
>>> rods will cease to refer meaningfully to each other above *n=140. *There
>>> is a critical region at *n={136,137}, *where the relative bias first
>>> reaches the extent of a whole unit. (It appears Eddington was right.) The
>>> relations between: how many – how diverse – how similar will keep their
>>> mutual restrictions, regardless of which unit one chooses *n *to be,
>>> from the smallest to the biggest of collections of parts will be subject to
>>> the interdependence.(From sub-molecular to galactic.)
>>>
>>> There may be reluctance to see the hologram of the Holy Grail. There
>>> exists an aspect of assemblies, namely how diverse their members are among
>>> themselves. There exists an aspect of assemblies, namely how similar their
>>> members are among themselves. There is a quotient between these two
>>> measurements. The ideal range of this quotient varies with the number of
>>> members in the assembly.
>>>
>>> The world view offered by reading a philosophy into the picture of two
>>> functions crossing twice is basically a dual one. Using the concept as a
>>> link to established results can help integrating the new paradigm into the
>>> system built up by the traditional ones.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, Pedro indeed, please allow me to state for the record that the
>>> simple facts presented in *oeis.org/A242615 <http://oeis.org/A242615>*are,
>>> in my opinion, a nucleus of new thought. It was important for Mendel to
>>> have his opinion recorded that the rules he observed are of a fundamental
>>> nature. Of course, lacking the vocabulary, hypotheses, experiments,
>>> observations, his contemporaries stood uncomprehending before his
>>> explanations. One who does not see the cracks between the parts of the
>>> whole, will make no use of their forms, patterns or their eligibility as
>>> habitat. Mendel’s idea was that the rule is separable from its carrier, but
>>> is immanent to that. His contemporaries were still puzzling about who and
>>> when and how has created the mysteries of heritage, while Mendel shouted:
>>> it is in the matter itself, not an outside invention or a creation! Today,
>>> learned colleagues wonder how the mysteries of being otherwise relate to
>>> the rules of being such as expected, and need remembering that the answer
>>> is in the matter itself: information is an inbuilt feature in a world which
>>> does not segregate descriptions due to neurological expediency.
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am Mi., 24. Nov. 2021 um 14:03 Uhr schrieb Pedro C. Marijuán <
>>> pedroc.marijuan en gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>> In response to Joseph and Krassimir, I think there might be an
>>>> important first step. Taking (for clarity) Yixin's terminology on "paradigm
>>>> revolution" in information science, the problem becomes clear: the lack of
>>>> a nucleus of new thought on which to edifice and extend the alternative
>>>> paradigm. Some of my learned colleagues will energetically exhibit their
>>>> own constructions, myself included, but helas (or alas)...  Then, all
>>>> compilations, thesaurus, recollections, etc. we may attempt become just
>>>> interesting learned exercises.
>>>>
>>>> Our medieval colleague, Doctor Gratianus was indeed initiating
>>>> "scientia nova" in Canon Law, as he was achieving the concordance of the
>>>> discordant (basically between the multiplicity of civil laws and religious
>>>> canons) by applying the central principle of rationality and of common
>>>> sense (both!) to the multiple legal situations of social life. It was a new
>>>> way of thinking in that time, continued by more brilliant thinkers in the
>>>> following centuries.
>>>>
>>>> Where is that new thought or central principle(s) of information that
>>>> are eluding us?
>>>> Tomorrow I will post a poetic version of the question.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards to all,
>>>> --Pedro
>>>>
>>>> El 18/11/2021 a las 16:43, joe.brenner en bluewin.ch escribió:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Pedro,
>>>>
>>>> Very interesting, thank you. I will think about your methodological
>>>> point. In the meantime, I started thinking about audiences/partners for
>>>> this initiative. On idea was people involved in the Philosophy of Law.
>>>> Another related field is that of ethics - a rapprochement with Rafael
>>>> Capurro might be envisaged. The issues are too important not to make fresh
>>>> starts everywhere one can.
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >----Message d'origine--
>>>> --
>>>> >De : pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es
>>>> >Date : 18/11/2021 - 14:24 (E)
>>>> >À : fis en listas.unizar.es
>>>> >Objet : [Fis] DECRETUM: Concordance of the Discordant
>>>> >
>>>> >Dear FIS Colleagues,
>>>> >
>>>> >In the early XII Century, something very interesting occurred around
>>>> the
>>>> >first university created in Europe (Bologna). The situation of law in
>>>> >that time was very confusing, with overlapping civil and religious
>>>> >canons that had been developed independently. Gratian (Gratianus) was
>>>> a
>>>> >fine jurist and canon lawyer operating in Tuscany, and teacher, and
>>>> >monastic rubricator in Bologna. He produced an admirable synthesis,
>>>> >Decretum: Concordia Discordantium Canonum. In the first, more concise,
>>>> >version, the synthetic work was framed in three parts: a sophisticate
>>>> >Introduction in which fundamental Distinctiones (distinctions) were
>>>> >made, and a second part with 36 causae or situations divided into
>>>> >concrete questions with systematic commentaries (Summae). The third
>>>> >part  discussed the difficulties, bringing forward solutions via
>>>> >different auctoritates from a variety of sources.
>>>> >
>>>> >The work supposed a watershed for Western Law. He was acclaimed as
>>>> >Father of the Canon Law, appreciatively cited in Dante's Divine Comedy
>>>> >(with a place in Paradise!), and considered as the creator of rational
>>>> >law. Gratian himself coined the term "scientia nova" (new science)
>>>> >referring to his synthesis, which indeed became highly influential
>>>> >outside law, particularly concerning his methodology of questions and
>>>> >systematic commentaries or Summae. Actually, later great synthesizers
>>>> in
>>>> >philosophy and theology (Albertus Magnus, Thomas Aquinas) were
>>>> >influenced by his method, as well the further development of the
>>>> >Scholastic School in next centuries...
>>>> >
>>>> >Could the reflection on Doctor Gratianus strenuous work & clever
>>>> >methodology, bringing concordance among the discordant, be of interest
>>>> >for our troubles on the general study of information and on the
>>>> >foundations of information science in particular? In my own case,
>>>> those
>>>> >ten fundamental principles I penned time ago, could be easily
>>>> >transformed into a few of the questions... Rather than looking for the
>>>> >single, exclusive point of view, the participation in establishing
>>>> >concordance among the discordant via a multidisciplinary spattering of
>>>> >basic questions is what transpires when one contemplates the historic
>>>> of
>>>> >our list debates. See the 64 "questions" FIS has dealt with up to now:
>>>> >https://fis.sciforum.net/fis-discussion-sessions/  Of course, with
>>>> >hindsight, it could be done better.
>>>> >
>>>> >All the best,
>>>> >
>>>> >--Pedro
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >--
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