[Fis] Fwd: The 10 Principles

Wed Sep 30 07:55:13 CEST 2020

Cari Tutti,
l'informazione è la legge delle leggi concettualmente consistente in un
processo di dare o prendere forma (neg-entropica) contrastato dalla
deformazione o degradazione (entropica). L'informazione si trasforma nel
tempo e nello spazio, dando luogo al processo di tras-in-formazione. La
massa determina come gli spazi, debbono curvarsi, gli spazi determinano
come le masse si debbono muovere. Tutto ciò che esiste, vivente o non
vivente, crea dei "campi di forma"
implicanti informazioni che misurano diversamente le loro quantità
qualitative o qualità quantitative: termodinamiche, biologiche, matematiche
e semantiche.
Una teoria generale dell'informazione non può non tenere conto di queste
cose che non escludono niente e nessuno, ma includono partendo "dal basso
verso l'alto" i sistemi naturali e umani a  complessità crescente in
ragione della loro dinamica storico-evolutiva.
Con molta umiltà sostengo questi concetti-principi da sempre in buona
compagnia dei più grandi e illuminati scienziati-studiosi di tutti i tempi
come dimostrano
le dozzine di libri che ho composto in proposito. Beninteso, sappiate che
io mi definisco o riconosco come un "poverino esponenziale" sempre grato
a voi tutti, a partire da Pedro, che ho avuto la fortuna e il privilegio di
apprezzare, conoscere e incontrare.
Grazie,
Un abbraccio.
Francesco.
,. .

Il giorno mar 29 set 2020 alle ore 20:00 Loet Leydesdorff <
loet en leydesdorff.net> ha scritto:

> About the loop you mention in the definition of information proposed in
> Principle 1, there is a very clear starting point: the origins of life.
>
> I don't think that evolution is emanating from a starting point.
> Complexity is constructed in terms of resonances ex post. The forward
> perspective can only see the morphogenesis "bottom up", but not the
> emerging control mechanisms and their interactions.
>
> In other words, historical development is to be distinguished from
> evolutionary dynamics. Otherwise, the explanation becomes "historicistic".
>
> Best,
> Loet.
>
>
> Best greetings
> --Pedro
>
>
> El 25/09/2020 a las 13:46, Christophe Menant escribió:
>
> Dear Pedro,
> It is true that using constraints relative to 3000 genes would bring in a
> level of complexity  difficult to manage. But the usage of the Meaning
> Genartaor System is with higher level entities where the constraints are of
> a generic type, like “Stay alive” and “Look for happiness”.  By the way,
> I’m not alone on that perspective. See
> https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-01198-7_6#aboutcontent
>  where different type of “control constraints” are introduced at basic
> life level, associated to “meaningful interpretation” and “significances”.
> Also, the  concept of constraint satisfaction as an entry point to
> cognition looks as accepted by the community (“a system is cognitive if and
> only if sensory inputs serve to trigger actions in a specific way, so as to
> satisfy a viability constraint” [Bourgine, Stewart 2004]).  So I don’t
> see very well why there is a reluctance to use a system approach on meaning
> generation for constraint satisfaction. What would be your position on that
> point?
> An advantage of the system approach is to allow the modeling of meaning
> generation in artificial agents with derived constraints. Meaning
> generation in living entities and in AAs can then be compared with the same
> tool. This highlights some concerns relative to artificial life and
> artificial intelligence, with ethical components (
> https://philpapers.org/archive/MENTTC-2.pdf ).
> On that subject I do not see very well how the 10 principles are linked to
> artificial cognition, which is, I feel, an important item for principles of
> information in our world where artificial agents participate more and more
> to all components of our lives. Could you tell us more on that?
> All the best
> Christophe
> Bourgine, P. Stewart, J. (2004) ‘Autopoiesis and cognition’ Artificial
> life, Summer 2004, Vol. 10, No. 3, MIT Press Journals.
> http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/1064546041255557#.VJLBnCuG-UI
>
> ------------------------------
> *De :* Fis <fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es> <fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es>
> de la part de Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>
> <pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>
> *Envoyé :* vendredi 18 septembre 2020 20:01
> *À :* 'fis' <fis en listas.unizar.es> <fis en listas.unizar.es>
> *Objet :* Re: [Fis] Fwd: The 10 Principles
>
> Dear All,
> Thanks to Jose Javier for his comments. Regarding the loop you mention
> about distinction, you are right, but this is a very characteristic of life
> (see that Maturana and Varela already said something pretty similar in
> their Tree of Knowledge). In the other biological principles that follow
> (below)  I try to clarify that notion in several directions, particularly
> concerning signaling systems, a concept which was completely ignored until
> well in the 1990s. Your second comment may be partially responded looking
> at those further principles dealing with the symbolic communication via
> language and the social narratives, not far from what you have pointed.
> Thus I include the whole principles herein.
>
> 1. Information is distinction on an * adjacent *difference.
>
> 2. Information processes consist in organized action upon differences
> collected onto structures, patterns, sequences, messages, or flows.
>
> 3. Information flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
> process –the life cycle– anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the
> accompanying energy flows.
>
> 4. Proto-phenomena of meaning, knowledge, and cognition (& intelligence)
> emerge via signaling systems of living cells, fully developed in the
> action/perception cycle of central nervous systems.
>
> 5. Information/communication exchanges among adaptive life-cycles underlie
> the complexity of biological organization at all scales.
>
> 6. It is symbolic language what conveys the essential communication
> exchanges of individuals —and constitutes the core of human "social nature."
>
> 7. Human information can be transformed into efficient knowledge by
> following the "knowledge instinct", further enhanced and delimited by
> collectively applying rigorous methodologies.
>
> 8. Human cognitive limitations are partially overcome via "knowledge
> ecologies", where knowledge circulates and recombines socially in a
> continuous actualization that involves "creative destruction" of theories,
> practices, and disciplines.
>
> 9. Narratives become encapsulated forms of “natural intelligence”,
> tailored to capture collective attention and memory, and essential for the
> cohesion of social, political, and economic structures.
>
> 10. Information science proposes a new, radical vision on how information
> and knowledge surround individual lives, with profound consequences for
> scientific-philosophical practice and for social governance.
>
> Briefly referring to the other discussion track (Christophe), I quite
> agree with situating the origins of (genuine) meaning with living beings,
> but have some trouble with "constraints" when generally applied to
> biological cognition. I think they may be more useful in other fields
> (originated in kinematics, they become more and more volatile as used in
> Dynamic Systems Theory, and similarly weakened when going from AI to
> biological cognition). For instance,  given 3,000 genes in Ecoli, organized
> in mixed clusters of fiendish complexity, how do you establish meaningful
> constraints? Or can even attribute separate "functions"? You may see in DOI:
> 10.1016/j.pbiomolbio.2015.07.002
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fderef%2Fhttp%253A%252F%252Fdx.doi.org%252F10.1016%252Fj.pbiomolbio.2015.07.002%3F_sg%255B0%255D%3DnH-ziIzFNlPKAqMszwKA9aJSdUF_He_Rfcal3jUKXaF_lvDrbTWXcTEDtf5uNRaHZMzJ0MFczgM3J-aub54-p6oiQA.Vi1baoaYqIl4vlby-pQVd58ob8urom6m0dhZo1yJ26_NjwihWirad9bxSivcVUymzy-vS1FcL9dD4ZQ7UDtz_w&data=02%7C01%7C%7C13a6b1012e6746c2a97208d85bfd00a1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637360489476081481&sdata=Gs6M4SxmClw83ShkAl9Vf7UIYyppHAAUxprvHFtZDRY%3D&reserved=0>
> the very dimensions of this ontology problem.
>
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fderef%2Fhttp%253A%252F%252Fdx.doi.org%252F10.1016%252Fj.pbiomolbio.2015.07.002%3F_sg%255B0%255D%3DnH-ziIzFNlPKAqMszwKA9aJSdUF_He_Rfcal3jUKXaF_lvDrbTWXcTEDtf5uNRaHZMzJ0MFczgM3J-aub54-p6oiQA.Vi1baoaYqIl4vlby-pQVd58ob8urom6m0dhZo1yJ26_NjwihWirad9bxSivcVUymzy-vS1FcL9dD4ZQ7UDtz_w&data=02%7C01%7C%7C13a6b1012e6746c2a97208d85bfd00a1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637360489476091476&sdata=sVOZBlgJExzw%2F4z0j2flYw5BaV%2FXYR7jFcpIMyFnP3g%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Regarding Marcus' comment on life as imprecisely defined (and whether
> viruses or Gaia are 'alive'), the fundamental issue in natural sciences is
> "explaining" rather than defining. And fortunately the advancement in our
> explanations of life in last decades has been fantastic. Life can now be
> characterized in every basic aspect with amazing depth. One cannot give a
> precise definition of life, but one can provide a list of essential
> characteristics, and at the center are the informational ones. Empirically,
> the point is that information appears to be so ingrained in the molecular
> organization of life that scores of new bio-disciplines have been recently
> launched around it: bioinformatics, bioinformation, biocomputation, all the
> "omic" fields, signaling science, etc. Biosemiotics could be included too,
> but Hélas, most biosemioticians continue to "read" the DNA meaning via the
> genetic code, rather than exploring the "signals" abduced from the
> environment and "distinctionally worked out and transcribed in genes--from
> which ultimately "meaning" emerges. About viruses concretely, they have
> been essential in the origins of eukaryotic complexity and in the dynamic
> balance of marine and terrestrial ecosystems... irrespective on how we
> consider their degree of "aliveness". And finally "non comment" about some
> (baiting?) expressions in your previous reply.
>
> I see right now the careful "review" by Loet: better for a next occasion!
>
> Best--Pedro
>
> PS. The Three Messages per Week are counted following the international
> business week (from Monday to Sunday included).
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
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> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.eshttp://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
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