[Fis] Fwd: Informatic Principles (redux) – reply to Pedro

Thu Sep 17 08:25:09 CEST 2020

Cari Tutti, amici anche dei giorni del coronavirus,
il creato e le creature costituiscono un unico "campo di forma", cioè un
luogo materiale o immateriale dove si verifica un processo temporale di
tras-in-formazione che consiste nel dare o nel prendere forma di ogni
essere o cosa vivente  o non vivente in senso strettamente biologico.
Ma si può ritenere in un mondo micro e macro che cambia, si evolve e si
trasforma continuamente che ci sia qualcosa di non vivente?
Mi basta, in questo contesto onto-logico reale o concreto ricordare che
Erwin Schrodinger in "Che cos'è la vita?" risponde applicando i metodi della
fisica quantistica allo studio delle molecole viventi di interesse
genetico. Egli  rinviene la questione centrale, cioè che la cellula sia
governata da un "codice" inscritto nei geni, suggerendo l'affascinante
ipotesi, secondo cui la molecola del gene deve essere un "cristallo
aperiodico". E così via fino alla scoperta
della doppia elica del DNA (Maurice Wilkins, Rosalind Franklin. James
Watson, Francis Krick).
D'altra parte o a maggior ragione la formazione dei cristalli in generale
di cui si occupa la mineralogia non è un processo di tras-in-formazione
avente un grande e importante significato, pur sfuggendo ad ogni
catalogazione-definizione biologica che pertiene agli esseri viventi veri e
propri?
Oltre che dalla filosofia di Socrate, Platone e Aristotele ho tratto
l'ispirazione-suggerimento di fondare l'economia informazionale, anche
dalla biologia informazionale nata alla fine degli anni quaranta del secolo
scorso..
Mi fermo. Chiedo scusa di essere stato più lungo di quanto mi ero
prefissato di essere.
Questa è la conoscenza della goccia del mio pensiero o il pensiero della
mia goccia di conoscenza che mi permetto di aggiungere ai Vostri, sempre
interessanti contributi.
Grazie.
Francesco

Il giorno mer 16 set 2020 alle ore 21:06 Karl Javorszky <
karl.javorszky en gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Marcus, Christophe,
>
> If the abstract things that we imagine are inanimate, then it may be
> interesting to see logical primitives to contain parts of a proto-meaning.
>
> Like the meaning of magnetism is eg the direction of the needle and the
> meaning of a coil, a spring, is what we call form stability, the meaning of
> information can be observed in groups of primitives while they team up
> during a reorder.
>
> Nice approach of both of you.
>
> Karl
>
>
> Christophe Menant <christophe.menant en hotmail.fr> schrieb am Mi., 16. Sep.
> 2020, 18:22:
>
>>
>>
>> Marcus,
>>
>> Regarding your concern about « meaning » in the inanimate let me
>> highlight some work on that subject (
>> https://philpapers.org/archive/MENMGF-2.pdf
>> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphilpapers.org%2Farchive%2FMENMGF-2.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703044063&sdata=G1%2Fkmln%2FBlcS0dOD3cvX3rWI6cL8bP%2B0JfLMJTrkm4I%3D&reserved=0>).
>> Also a 2020 update on a modeling of meaning generation (
>> https://philpapers.org/archive/MENITA-7.pdf
>> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphilpapers.org%2Farchive%2FMENITA-7.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703054059&sdata=MozUVz2h%2FtaOvr6qw8HiN4Y%2Fx4EdZeYK5NPSJf%2Bd95Q%3D&reserved=0>
>> )
>> Christophe
>>
>> Envoyé de mon iPhone
>>
>> Le 16 sept. 2020 à 08:39, Marcus Abundis <55mrcs en gmail.com> a écrit :
>>
>> Pedro,
>>
>> Sadly, Peirce never details Laws of Nature (1), he merely uses the notion
>> as a trope to support his also-imprecise 'synechism' – so I can hardly
>> re-reinterpret 'that which does not even exist'. Nor does Bateson detail
>> his own notions of 'a pattern that connects the cosmos' and a 'necessary
>> unity', kin to Peirce's synechism. And neither does Korzybski specify
>> multiple 'levels of abstraction' that would also tie to Peirce's synechism.
>> THIS imprecision seems to be the habit . . . so I think most informed and
>> thoughtful readers would see this as an area still needing to be addressed.
>>
>> > . . . done putting together into the same sac fermions, genes, . . . <
>> What thoughtful person puts these things in the 'same sac' when they
>> point to different 'levels' in a simple-to-complex cosmos. This comment,
>> ignoring an obvious simple-to-complex cosmos, seems more about 'baiting an
>> argument' rather than engaging in and encouraging critical thought.
>>
>> >origins of meaning in the "animate" are automatically lost,<
>> I hope you understand simply repeating 'Life as the origin of meaning' as
>> a mantra here on FIS does not make it true in other realms. This assumption
>> seems to remain largely unexamined in FIS, such unexamined assumptions
>> being unsuited to/discouraging deeper exploration. Life itself remains
>> *formally* undefined. Further, Life plainly relies on 'meaning-less'(?)
>> inanimate factors noted in the Standard Model of particle physics and the
>> periodic table. What happens to Life if 'inanimate' electrons suddenly lost
>> their charge? Or if proteins become denatured by inanimate means? There is
>> no meaning in this? One has to wonder what you actually mean by 'meaning'
>> if your claim vis-a-vis Life as meaning is to persist. Leaving this
>> assumption unexamined makes further exchanges on the matter a fool's errand.
>>
>> > . . . assume a pan-pysicalist-pan-psychist stance . . .<
>> I have no idea what you mean by this, but again it seems like another
>> baiting comment, more about dismissing the offered view without actual
>> critical thought. Or perhaps you are pointing to Force and Energy as
>> 'inanimate' all-pervading (pan-) primitive factors, each exhibiting a
>> certain logic(s), at various and diverse levels? But I cannot say/see what
>> you actually mean here as your comment seems vague.
>>
>> I am sorry to say simply 'baiting arguments' does not reach a level of
>> discourse that I see as meriting a 'prize'. I will post on FIS further
>> Informatic Principles only if it seems some closure is possible on prior
>> points – as my position proceeds in a step-wise manner, as with a
>> simple-to-complex cosmos. Still, for those who are curious, more detail is
>> available in the current DRAFT of a paper, which I regularly update/refine,
>> found here:
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mXpqH596Ohr9_Rt7Yf7pkK5BbQkuTblF/view?usp=sharing
>> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F1mXpqH596Ohr9_Rt7Yf7pkK5BbQkuTblF%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703054059&sdata=RIXnwGLBIS4xg3tWvp8U13%2FB3a5QpFV8BR5c7DQtAT8%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> 1) Sfendoni-Mentzou, Demetra. “Peirce on Continuity and Laws of Nature.”
>> Transactions of the Charles S. Peirce Society, vol. 33, no. 3, 1997, pp.
>> 646–678. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/40320633
>> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fstable%2F40320633&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703064057&sdata=jNc7zqqEXhY8%2FbHl8AbJ%2BUGZE7YXuiASYpVtFPnBN7E%3D&reserved=0>.
>> Accessed 15 Sept. 2020.
>>
>> M!
>>
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