<div dir="ltr">Cari Tutti, amici anche dei giorni del coronavirus,<div>il creato e le creature costituiscono un unico "campo di forma", cioè un luogo materiale o immateriale dove si verifica un processo temporale di tras-in-formazione che consiste nel dare o nel prendere forma di ogni essere o cosa vivente o non vivente in senso strettamente biologico. </div><div>Ma si può ritenere in un mondo micro e macro che cambia, si evolve e si trasforma continuamente che ci sia qualcosa di non vivente?</div><div>Mi basta, in questo contesto onto-logico reale o concreto ricordare che Erwin Schrodinger in "Che cos'è la vita?" risponde applicando i metodi della</div><div>fisica quantistica allo studio delle molecole viventi di interesse genetico. Egli rinviene la questione centrale, cioè che la cellula sia governata da un "codice" inscritto nei geni, suggerendo l'affascinante ipotesi, secondo cui la molecola del gene deve essere un "cristallo aperiodico". E così via fino alla scoperta</div><div>della doppia elica del DNA (Maurice Wilkins, Rosalind Franklin. James Watson, Francis Krick). </div><div>D'altra parte o a maggior ragione la formazione dei cristalli in generale di cui si occupa la mineralogia non è un processo di tras-in-formazione avente un grande e importante significato, pur sfuggendo ad ogni catalogazione-definizione biologica che pertiene agli esseri viventi veri e propri? </div><div>Oltre che dalla filosofia di Socrate, Platone e Aristotele ho tratto l'ispirazione-suggerimento di fondare l'economia informazionale, anche dalla biologia informazionale nata alla fine degli anni quaranta del secolo scorso..</div><div>Mi fermo. Chiedo scusa di essere stato più lungo di quanto mi ero prefissato di essere.</div><div>Questa è la conoscenza della goccia del mio pensiero o il pensiero della mia goccia di conoscenza che mi permetto di aggiungere ai Vostri, sempre interessanti contributi.</div><div>Grazie.</div><div>Francesco</div><div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno mer 16 set 2020 alle ore 21:06 Karl Javorszky <<a href="mailto:karl.javorszky@gmail.com" target="_blank">karl.javorszky@gmail.com</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Marcus, Christophe,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If the abstract things that we imagine are inanimate, then it may be interesting to see logical primitives to contain parts of a proto-meaning.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Like the meaning of magnetism is eg the direction of the needle and the meaning of a coil, a spring, is what we call form stability, the meaning of information can be observed in groups of primitives while they team up during a reorder. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Nice approach of both of you. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Karl </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Christophe Menant <<a href="mailto:christophe.menant@hotmail.fr" target="_blank">christophe.menant@hotmail.fr</a>> schrieb am Mi., 16. Sep. 2020, 18:22:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Marcus,</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Regarding your concern about « meaning » in the inanimate let me highlight some work on that subject (<a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphilpapers.org%2Farchive%2FMENMGF-2.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703044063&sdata=G1%2Fkmln%2FBlcS0dOD3cvX3rWI6cL8bP%2B0JfLMJTrkm4I%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://philpapers.org/archive/MENMGF-2.pdf</a>).
Also a 2020 update on a modeling of meaning generation (<a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphilpapers.org%2Farchive%2FMENITA-7.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703054059&sdata=MozUVz2h%2FtaOvr6qw8HiN4Y%2Fx4EdZeYK5NPSJf%2Bd95Q%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://philpapers.org/archive/MENITA-7.pdf</a>)</div>
<div>Christophe <br>
<br>
<div id="gmail-m_-2230394279692849689gmail-m_-9140159494983300145gmail-m_6457720661346345630m_-3699431991454297806AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Envoyé de mon iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Le 16 sept. 2020 à 08:39, Marcus Abundis <<a href="mailto:55mrcs@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">55mrcs@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Pedro,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sadly, Peirce never details Laws of Nature (1), he merely uses the notion as a trope to support his also-imprecise 'synechism' – so I can hardly re-reinterpret 'that which does not even exist'. Nor does Bateson detail his own notions of 'a pattern that
connects the cosmos' and a 'necessary unity', kin to Peirce's synechism. And neither does Korzybski specify multiple 'levels of abstraction' that would also tie to Peirce's synechism. THIS imprecision seems to be the habit . . . so I think most informed and
thoughtful readers would see this as an area still needing to be addressed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> . . . done putting together into the same sac fermions, genes, . . . <</div>
<div>What thoughtful person puts these things in the 'same sac' when they point to different 'levels' in a simple-to-complex cosmos. This comment, ignoring an obvious simple-to-complex cosmos, seems more about 'baiting an argument' rather than engaging in and
encouraging critical thought.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>>origins of meaning in the "animate" are automatically lost,<</div>
<div>I hope you understand simply repeating 'Life as the origin of meaning' as a mantra here on FIS does not make it true in other realms. This assumption seems to remain largely unexamined in FIS, such unexamined assumptions being unsuited to/discouraging
deeper exploration. Life itself remains *formally* undefined. Further, Life plainly relies on 'meaning-less'(?) inanimate factors noted in the Standard Model of particle physics and the periodic table. What happens to Life if 'inanimate' electrons suddenly
lost their charge? Or if proteins become denatured by inanimate means? There is no meaning in this? One has to wonder what you actually mean by 'meaning' if your claim vis-a-vis Life as meaning is to persist. Leaving this assumption unexamined makes further
exchanges on the matter a fool's errand.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> . . . assume a pan-pysicalist-pan-psychist stance . . .<</div>
<div>I have no idea what you mean by this, but again it seems like another baiting comment, more about dismissing the offered view without actual critical thought. Or perhaps you are pointing to Force and Energy as 'inanimate' all-pervading (pan-) primitive
factors, each exhibiting a certain logic(s), at various and diverse levels? But I cannot say/see what you actually mean here as your comment seems vague.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am sorry to say simply 'baiting arguments' does not reach a level of discourse that I see as meriting a 'prize'. I will post on FIS further Informatic Principles only if it seems some closure is possible on prior points – as my position proceeds in a
step-wise manner, as with a simple-to-complex cosmos. Still, for those who are curious, more detail is available in the current DRAFT of a paper, which I regularly update/refine, found here:</div>
<div><a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F1mXpqH596Ohr9_Rt7Yf7pkK5BbQkuTblF%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703054059&sdata=RIXnwGLBIS4xg3tWvp8U13%2FB3a5QpFV8BR5c7DQtAT8%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mXpqH596Ohr9_Rt7Yf7pkK5BbQkuTblF/view?usp=sharing</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) Sfendoni-Mentzou, Demetra. “Peirce on Continuity and Laws of Nature.” Transactions of the Charles S. Peirce Society, vol. 33, no. 3, 1997, pp. 646–678. JSTOR,
<a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fstable%2F40320633&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703064057&sdata=jNc7zqqEXhY8%2FbHl8AbJ%2BUGZE7YXuiASYpVtFPnBN7E%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
www.jstor.org/stable/40320633</a>. Accessed 15 Sept. 2020.<br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div><font color="#333333" face="proxima-nova-1, proxima-nova-2, Tahoma, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px">M!</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Fis mailing list</span><br>
<span><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a></span><br>
<span><a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistas.unizar.es%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ffis&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703064057&sdata=YM7JFjoCE3GiU7b2R7%2B64%2BSu7UGGC28sMoxnVoE%2Bfpc%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistas.unizar.es%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ffis&data=02%7C01%7C%7C451596258b7647ff7d5008d85a0b5356%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358351982340728&sdata=4PuRsPGbutCXkCQUJil9tIlYzab4lCgaBukaE67jsBc%3D&reserved=0</a></span><br>
<span>----------</span><br>
<span>INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.</span><br>
<span>Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace:
<a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsicuz.unizar.es%2Finformacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703074050&sdata=SuiD5KtPOjAkWZacV727Rdsqvy27iZWGiUYXQh9pqt8%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsicuz.unizar.es%2Finformacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas&data=02%7C01%7C%7C451596258b7647ff7d5008d85a0b5356%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358351982340728&sdata=cRrPSekAUWt%2Fbum%2FOKUljz2fedIjHOwnh2kF%2BtiT4jU%3D&reserved=0</a></span><br>
<span>Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee.</span><br>
<span><a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistas.unizar.es%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb571ac99441a4fa935ca08d85a5aa8b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358692703084045&sdata=GuYHRwKzCuSgbl2g9%2FV%2BmcV8vrVoHcta%2FzVDnwVFAWI%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistas.unizar.es%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C451596258b7647ff7d5008d85a0b5356%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637358351982340728&sdata=OyM1T8DE%2Bjd86uAw1AY89BARsMNOzvNnV0UjL067RnQ%3D&reserved=0</a></span><br>
<span>----------</span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
----------<br>
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br>
----------<br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br>
----------<br>
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL<br>
<br>
Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.<br>
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: <a href="https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas</a><br>
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.<br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es</a><br>
----------<br>
</blockquote></div>