[Fis] Informatic Principles (redux) – Reply to Christophe, Karl, and Francesco.

Marcus Abundis 55mrcs at gmail.com
Thu Sep 17 11:15:54 CEST 2020


I found several interesting points in your 2020 brief. I note them here,
using your own numbering system:

> 1 c) No general coverage is available for the notion of meaning.<
Of course, superficially, you are right to state this, about 'general
coverage', but we can do better. The answer to this problem is that one
must use 'logical primitives', applied to diverse domains, in contrast to
more conventional 'material primitives' thinking. Indeed, it is Shannon's
use of a *logarithmic* logical primitive that supports Signal Entropy, and
accounts for the model's success. I use (S)ubject and (O)bject roles, and
(V)ariability in S-O roles, as my logical primitives.

> 2 c) Management of local constraint introduces information and meaning.<
I absolutely agree with this view, it is *exactly* on point (superficially)
– but I apply it in a different way than you do. You choose to limit this
to Life, but I go to the level of Physics. Part of the problem is that Life
(to me) seems imprecisely defined – are viruses 'alive' is Gaia 'alive',
etc. – the answer to these issues depends on how losely/firmly one defines
*underlying* (even lower-order) terms. So at what point do we say 'THIS is
the correct level for beginning our analysis?' I ask you to consider a
counter-question to your item '2 c)' – At what point/level is something
truly non-informatic and meaning-less, and how do you (or science)
define/present that level? This question is useful in developing an *a
priori* analysis. For me, everything *berfore* a quantum/functional
'wave-form collapse' is meaningless and non-informatic (Wheeler's quantum
foam). How do you answer this question for yourself? The view you offer
above is a nice framing *for me* as it can be applied equally to inanimate
Force and Energy, and elementary particles . . . in addition to applying to
Life – which then begins to approach 'general coverage' for informatic
meaning, thinking and modeling.

> 3 a) The word "meaning" is most of the time associated to human
You qualify this as 'most of the time' . . . leading me to wonder about
'other times' and how you address those other times? How/where is this
matter of meaning *firmly* bounded for you? As I do not agree the notion of
it being tied exclusively to Life, I find further discussion on this point
in your 2020 document unsatisfying. Hence, I ask for a more-precise framing.

> 3 b) The unknown nature of human mind makes human meaning a complex
One could as easily say 'the unknown nature of Nature' which seems to me to
be a more critical matter (in a simple to complex cosmos). In a *true*
scientific sense we succeed in modeling only a very small fraction of what
Nature presents us. Still, there is an unavoidable tendency to be
fascinated with Human Consciousness as one's focus . . . but this is an
anthropocentric approach, where there are much larger issues and dynamics
to consider, and with much more likely accessible solutions – even beyond
Life, and surely beyond humanity.

Interesting twist on magnetics as proto-informatic . . . but which might
equally be applied to all four fundamental forces, I think. At which point
is the application of any Force informatic in itself, and at what point is
it proto-informatic? The compass needle is an interesting analogy, but that
needle requires interpretation (which I think is your point), where I would
say the expression of *any* force is meaningful in itself (i.e., gravity
enables planets, which enables a moon, which enables rotation and wobble,
which enables cycles and seasons, which supports Life, etc.)

I found your note on DNA and viruses relevant and again pointing to (for
me) the innate imprecision of how Life is defined. I understand that others
may not accept Life is ambiguously defined – but for now, we will have to
agree to disagree on this matter, while I continue to pay close attention
to the matter. I hope I interpreted your note's meaning correctly.

This is my third post for the week, so I am 'out' until Sunday . . .
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