[Fis] [Fwd: Information And Locality, Addendum's]--Steven

Francesco Rizzo 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com
Fri Oct 2 15:24:49 CEST 2015

Cari Tutti,
leggendo i messaggi di Steven e quello di Pedro desidero precisare che la
triade sintattica (relazione tra segni), semantica (relazione tra segni e
significato) e pragmatica (relazione tra uomo e segni) -- dal sottoscritto
approfondita e applicata alla mia "Nuova economia"-- non esclude l'uso
della teoria matematica (relazione tra simboli) della comunicazione, ma va
oltre per comprendere anche ciò che nessuna formula matematica potrà
esaurire tutte le variabili eventuali e intervenienti relative alla
bellezza e alla bruttezza della realtà poetica dell'esistenza e della
conoscenza. Inoltre, non so quante volte ho ribadito che è necessaria
un'armonia del disaccordo tra le diverse categorie di informazione usate
dalle persone di questo mondo per descrivere e comunicare qualunque
disciplina scientifica e qualsiasi prassi esistenziale. Ma ho l'impressione
che quel che scrivo io per alcuni, non so quanti, non conta niente.
Pazienza o resistenza.
Saluti, senza polemica o risentimento che non mi appartengono.
Francesco Rizzo.

2015-10-02 14:00 GMT+02:00 Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>:

> Dear Steven and FIS colleagues,
> Sorry about the problems with the server. Next messages, please, send them
> directly to me and I will re-enter.
> The approach to locality you have explained is interesting. In general it
> looks right, as biological information can be widely delocalized,
> relatively delocalized, but also strictly localized. Apart from your
> examples on allosterism and receptor synergistic action, the gradients of
> second messengers and the transmembrane transmission of signaling effects
> in other receptors may be instances of the relative class, and the base
> pairing of nucleotides would correspond to the localized class. If I am not
> wrong, it is quite difficult to shoehorn into a single category the bioinfo
> architectures of the cell. Therefore in general I use the "info flow"
> parlance, for the result of the cell's communication with the environment
> is quite often a Brownian flow or an "influence" (mostly of the delocalized
> class) that travels towards the action centers of the cell --the
> transcription factors that guide gene expression.
> Then, arriving at that instance, I have some disagreement in the way
> Guenther speaks about the syntactic-semantic-pragmatic rules applying to
> any sign-system of natural biocommunication language. Imagine, following
> with the previous paragraph, that we have just received (E. coli) a puff of
> cAMP signal from the environment. It has been trapped by some receptors of
> a two component system and some activated transcription factors  CRP type
> travel to express around 400 different genes. Of course, it previously
> depends on the dominant sigma factors (if sigma 70 dominates, it is OK,
> otherwise there might be problems with the previous sequence). Well, most
> of this narrative is fictitious, but the problem is how do you express in
> "rule-mediated" statements this type of half-known tremendous complexity?
> How do you handle the very different signaling capabilities/properties of
> one component systems, two components, three components, and above all, the
> sigma factors --that in my view are most of them essential for connecting
> with the life cycle; they represent the equivalent to our "moods" and
> "emotions". Otherwise I think he is quite right in the conflation of signs
> and sign-users at the sub-viral level. I consider it, potentially, a
> breakthrough complementing the symbiotic theory of Lynn Margulis with a new
> viral (sub-viral) branch, plus the well-known archeal and eubacterial ones.
> Unfortunately, the neglect of the life cycle is almost universal. Neither
> neuroscientists nor psychologists nor social scientists are sufficiently
> aware of this invisible "water" that permeates all living stuff. Echoing
> some old evolutionary statement, everything should made sense in relation
> with the advancement of the corresponding life cycle. Just the superficial
> observation of human exchanges in our societies, or in whatever historical
> epoch, the conversational small-talk topics, the way people greet each
> other, the gossip media... the condensates of the individuals' info cycles
> are everywhere. A new conceptualization of information as accompanying the
> development of human action for the sake of life cycles and subtending the
> cooperation structures of economic life could have wide multidisciplinary
> interest--I think. (Unfortunately, these adventures are discouraged: Mark
> is terribly right about the sorrow state of our collective brain
> reservoirs--poor universities! kingdoms of conventionalism and tunnel
> vision).
> To conclude, the emphasis on the generative also allows some connection
> with Howard's and Bob's  criticisms on the "dead"  approach to
> cosmological matters.  I do not venture to expose my own naive views,
> rather will repeat a wonderful sentence from Michael Conrad (1996): "When
> we look at a biological system we are looking at the face of the underlying
> physics of the universe."
> best--Pedro
> Pedro C. Marijuan wrote:
>> (From Steven)
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject:     Information And Locality, Addendum's
>> Date:     Mon, 28 Sep 2015 16:46:41 -0700
>> From:     Steven Ericsson-Zenith <steven en iase.us>
>> To:     Foundations of Information Science Information Science <
>> fis en listas.unizar.es>
>> CC:     Pedro Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>
>> Dear List,
>> Looking over my promises in this discussion I have two particular notes
>> to provide. These got put aside as I became distracted by both the server
>> issues and my health.
>> I promised to provide a historical statement (referencing Benjamin
>> Peirce, Einstein and Turing) and a brief mathematical statement.  I will
>> make these statements separately over the coming days.
>> Pedro, I note that server issues continue. Regards,
>> Steven
>> --
>>  Dr. Steven Ericsson-Zenith, Los Gatos, California. +1-650-308-8611
>>  http://iase.info
>> ---
>> _______________________________________________
>> Fis mailing list
>> Fis en listas.unizar.es
>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> --
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
> Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
> pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> -------------------------------------------------
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