<div dir="ltr">Cari Tutti,<div>leggendo i messaggi di Steven e quello di Pedro desidero precisare che la triade sintattica (relazione tra segni), semantica (relazione tra segni e significato) e pragmatica (relazione tra uomo e segni) -- dal sottoscritto approfondita e applicata alla mia "Nuova economia"-- non esclude l'uso della teoria matematica (relazione tra simboli) della comunicazione, ma va oltre per comprendere anche ciò che nessuna formula matematica potrà esaurire tutte le variabili eventuali e intervenienti relative alla bellezza e alla bruttezza della realtà poetica dell'esistenza e della conoscenza. Inoltre, non so quante volte ho ribadito che è necessaria un'armonia del disaccordo tra le diverse categorie di informazione usate dalle persone di questo mondo per descrivere e comunicare qualunque disciplina scientifica e qualsiasi prassi esistenziale. Ma ho l'impressione che quel che scrivo io per alcuni, non so quanti, non conta niente. Pazienza o resistenza. </div><div>Saluti, senza polemica o risentimento che non mi appartengono.</div><div>Francesco Rizzo.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-10-02 14:00 GMT+02:00 Pedro C. Marijuan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Dear Steven and FIS colleagues,<br>
<br>
Sorry about the problems with the server. Next messages, please, send them directly to me and I will re-enter.<br>
<br>
The approach to locality you have explained is interesting. In general it looks right, as biological information can be widely delocalized, relatively delocalized, but also strictly localized. Apart from your examples on allosterism and receptor synergistic action, the gradients of second messengers and the transmembrane transmission of signaling effects in other receptors may be instances of the relative class, and the base pairing of nucleotides would correspond to the localized class. If I am not wrong, it is quite difficult to shoehorn into a single category the bioinfo architectures of the cell. Therefore in general I use the "info flow" parlance, for the result of the cell's communication with the environment is quite often a Brownian flow or an "influence" (mostly of the delocalized class) that travels towards the action centers of the cell --the transcription factors that guide gene expression.<br>
<br>
Then, arriving at that instance, I have some disagreement in the way Guenther speaks about the syntactic-semantic-pragmatic rules applying to any sign-system of natural biocommunication language. Imagine, following with the previous paragraph, that we have just received (E. coli) a puff of cAMP signal from the environment. It has been trapped by some receptors of a two component system and some activated transcription factors CRP type travel to express around 400 different genes. Of course, it previously depends on the dominant sigma factors (if sigma 70 dominates, it is OK, otherwise there might be problems with the previous sequence). Well, most of this narrative is fictitious, but the problem is how do you express in "rule-mediated" statements this type of half-known tremendous complexity? How do you handle the very different signaling capabilities/properties of one component systems, two components, three components, and above all, the sigma factors --that in my view are most of them essential for connecting with the life cycle; they represent the equivalent to our "moods" and "emotions". Otherwise I think he is quite right in the conflation of signs and sign-users at the sub-viral level. I consider it, potentially, a breakthrough complementing the symbiotic theory of Lynn Margulis with a new viral (sub-viral) branch, plus the well-known archeal and eubacterial ones.<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, the neglect of the life cycle is almost universal. Neither neuroscientists nor psychologists nor social scientists are sufficiently aware of this invisible "water" that permeates all living stuff. Echoing some old evolutionary statement, everything should made sense in relation with the advancement of the corresponding life cycle. Just the superficial observation of human exchanges in our societies, or in whatever historical epoch, the conversational small-talk topics, the way people greet each other, the gossip media... the condensates of the individuals' info cycles are everywhere. A new conceptualization of information as accompanying the development of human action for the sake of life cycles and subtending the cooperation structures of economic life could have wide multidisciplinary interest--I think. (Unfortunately, these adventures are discouraged: Mark is terribly right about the sorrow state of our collective brain reservoirs--poor universities! kingdoms of conventionalism and tunnel vision).<br>
<br>
To conclude, the emphasis on the generative also allows some connection with Howard's and Bob's criticisms on the "dead" approach to cosmological matters. I do not venture to expose my own naive views, rather will repeat a wonderful sentence from Michael Conrad (1996): "When we look at a biological system we are looking at the face of the underlying physics of the universe."<br>
<br>
best--Pedro<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
Pedro C. Marijuan wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
(From Steven)<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Information And Locality, Addendum's<br>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 16:46:41 -0700<br>
From: Steven Ericsson-Zenith <<a href="mailto:steven@iase.us" target="_blank">steven@iase.us</a>><br>
To: Foundations of Information Science Information Science <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
CC: Pedro Marijuan <<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear List,<br>
<br>
Looking over my promises in this discussion I have two particular notes to provide. These got put aside as I became distracted by both the server issues and my health.<br>
<br>
I promised to provide a historical statement (referencing Benjamin Peirce, Einstein and Turing) and a brief mathematical statement. I will make these statements separately over the coming days.<br>
<br>
Pedro, I note that server issues continue. Regards,<br>
Steven<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Dr. Steven Ericsson-Zenith, Los Gatos, California. <a href="tel:%2B1-650-308-8611" value="+16503088611" target="_blank">+1-650-308-8611</a><br>
<a href="http://iase.info" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://iase.info</a><br>
---<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<br></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
-- <br>
-------------------------------------------------<br>
Pedro C. Marijuán<br>
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<br>
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud<br>
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)<br>
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X<br>
50009 Zaragoza, Spain<br>
Tfno. <a href="tel:%2B34%20976%2071%203526" value="+34976713526" target="_blank">+34 976 71 3526</a> (& 6818)<br>
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-------------------------------------------------</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
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