[Fis] Emergence of Human Sexual Behaviour--Siegmund Freud
Rainer Feistel (IOW)
rainer.feistel at iow.de
Wed Feb 18 17:16:17 CET 2026
Hi Jason,
While I am not an expert of Freud, and don't intend to become one, I
believe that Freud did not really distinguish
between the pleasure of drinking and that of sexual arousal. For example:
Freud (1920: p.36):
"Die erste und lebenswichtigste Tätigkeit des Kindes, das Saugen an der
Mutterbrust (oder an ihren Surrogaten), muß es bereits mit dieser Lust
vertraut gemacht haben. Wir würden sagen, die Lippen des Kindes haben
sich benommen wie eine erogene Zone, und die Reizung durch den warmen
Milchstrom war wohl die Ursache der Lustempfindung."
Let me try a translation:
"The first activity of the child, and the most relevant for survival,
the sucking at the mother's breast (or its surrogates) must have
acquainted it with this delight [of satisfaction]. We would say that the
child's lips have behaved like an erogenous zone, and the stimulation by
the warm stream of milk was likely the cause of the sensation of delight."
If I understand your argument correctly, you link the child's (asexual!)
pleasure of drinking to the later sexual interest of men in breasts and
nipples. However, soon after weaning the infants develop lactose
intolerance which strongly prevents them from the pleasure of drinking
mother's milk. It is unclear to me how that interest in breasts, based
on drinking milk as a baby, should return after sexual maturation
without any interest in drinking milk from the girlfriend's breast. And,
also girls do drink milk when being babies, so why don't they develop a
similar sexual interest in inspecting breasts as boys have?
Anyway, your hierarchy of needs is nice. Thanks for that. Hope we manage
level 8.
Rainer
Am 18.02.2026 um 14:16 schrieb Jason Hu:
> Hi Rainer,
> "A nice memory of when we were newborn babies feeding from the
> breasts" is not sexuality, IMHO. I mentioned the word "food" only.
> Therefore, your linking my words to Freud does not hold. 😉
>
> In oriental culture, we have "an hierarchy of needs" different from
> Maslow's. "Food" is the first layer. "Sex" is the second. Here is my
> version:
> 1-Drink-Food(survival);
> 2-Male-Female(sex);
> 3-Sound-Color(art);
> 4-Dog-Horse(hunting);
> 5-Wave-watching(history-society);
> 6-Tide-playing(participation in politics & businesses);
> 7-Speaking of Tao(authoring);
> 8-Reaching Understanding(Communicatics)
> My initial message to you was on level 1, not level 2. Now I'm trying
> on level 8 with you.
> Best - Jason
>
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2026 at 3:43 AM Rainer Feistel (IOW)
> <rainer.feistel at iow.de> wrote:
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> I believe your argument had already been presented in detail by
> Siegmund Freud,
> e.g. in Freud, S. (1920): Drei Abhandlungen zur Sexualtheorie. F.
> Deuticke, Leipzig,
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.psychanalyse.lu__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UhlNA6rvuC1-sJH711lTW3-XpCYIJ98u0tj7rX0KkP7sTKbd09Do4R2Luu3VPXCqGH3VC60jgltTGWAywQ3qHFeDp6Y$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.psychanalyse.lu__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UhlNA6rvuC1-sJH711lTW3-XpCYIJ98u0tj7rX0KkP7sTKbd09Do4R2Luu3VPXCqGH3VC60jgltTGWAywQ3qHFeDp6Y$ > (there should
> likely be an English edition, too).
> Freud argues that breastfeeding is a sexual experience for
> sucklings, accompanied by sexual arousal.
>
> I do not at all share Freud's hypothesis.
> If so, why don't have all mammals sexy breasts, cats and dogs,
> pics and cows, and especially chimps?
> In fact, they all reduce their mammary glands after weaning, just
> in contrast to humans. Why?
> Do boys/men find their mother's breasts sexually attractive and do
> they always attempt to squeeze and suck those?
> Do mothers typically present their breasts to their sons with
> sexual intentions?
> Could this regularly be observed or often personally be
> experienced, in retrospect?
>
> On Nov 5, 1953, in a phone call with his friend Johanna Fantova in
> Priceton, Albert Einstein concluded that
> "Freud was a bright man, but a lot of his theory I consider as
> rubbish"
> I share Einstein's opinion regarding Freud's Oedipus complex.
>
> Perhaps it is American prudery that prohibits breastfeeding in the
> public as a sexual offence.
> In my view, breastfeeding is natural childcare rather than sexual
> exhibitionism.
>
> Stastically, the milk production of women is uncorrelated with the
> size of their adipose breasts.
>
> As far as I may imagine, most women do not want to miss their
> breasts as female symbols.
> Losing them for medical reasons is usually a hard decision if
> there is no other way. Some even
> prefer to risk their life rather than living without breasts. But
> this is just my personal impression.
>
> Rainer
>
> Am 18.02.2026 um 02:14 schrieb Jason Hu:
>> Hi Rainer,
>>
>> I just browsed the recent FIS discussions triggered by your
>> interesting ideas. I'm puzzled about why nobody so far has
>> suggested a different but simpler hypothesis about man's love of
>> female breasts:
>>
>> Could it be just a nice memory of when we were newborn babies
>> feeding from the breasts? Would that nice, warm, satisfying
>> feeling be memorized in the pool of our instinct after growing
>> up? The preference for the bigger breasts also becomes
>> explainable - it simply means more milk food. 😍 For adult males
>> searching for a good mate, larger breasts are informational
>> symbols of "my baby can be well fed," therefore, a desirable plus
>> in addition to everything else.
>>
>> This hypothesis, however, needs to be checked from the women's
>> perspective. I don't know if women like breasts as much as men
>> do. But there might be two more differentiating variables: Women
>> might have "extra inconvenience" of having to carry such fat mass
>> (e.g., when having to run fast), and men might have some "envy of
>> not having those nice body parts."
>>
>> Just my two cents of food for thought.
>>
>> Regards - Jason
>> ------------------------------------
>> Jason Jixuan Hu, Ph.D.
>> Independent Research Scholar
>> Organizer: Club of REMY: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UhlNA6rvuC1-sJH711lTW3-XpCYIJ98u0tj7rX0KkP7sTKbd09Do4R2Luu3VPXCqGH3VC60jgltTGWAywQ3q_gyi9RE$
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UhlNA6rvuC1-sJH711lTW3-XpCYIJ98u0tj7rX0KkP7sTKbd09Do4R2Luu3VPXCqGH3VC60jgltTGWAywQ3q_gyi9RE$ >
>> General Partner: WINTOP Group: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.wintopgroup.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UhlNA6rvuC1-sJH711lTW3-XpCYIJ98u0tj7rX0KkP7sTKbd09Do4R2Luu3VPXCqGH3VC60jgltTGWAywQ3qEI1Wj98$
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.wintopgroup.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UhlNA6rvuC1-sJH711lTW3-XpCYIJ98u0tj7rX0KkP7sTKbd09Do4R2Luu3VPXCqGH3VC60jgltTGWAywQ3qEI1Wj98$ >
>> Introduction: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drjasonhu.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UhlNA6rvuC1-sJH711lTW3-XpCYIJ98u0tj7rX0KkP7sTKbd09Do4R2Luu3VPXCqGH3VC60jgltTGWAywQ3qNC6Wa3k$
>> Wiki Page: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJH008__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UhlNA6rvuC1-sJH711lTW3-XpCYIJ98u0tj7rX0KkP7sTKbd09Do4R2Luu3VPXCqGH3VC60jgltTGWAywQ3qEpa9XYI$
>> Video: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJHsprach__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UhlNA6rvuC1-sJH711lTW3-XpCYIJ98u0tj7rX0KkP7sTKbd09Do4R2Luu3VPXCqGH3VC60jgltTGWAywQ3qULl8ZBU$
>> office: jjh at wintopgroup.com
>> mobile: jasonthegoodman at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2026 at 6:49 AM Rainer Feistel (IOW)
>> <rainer.feistel at iow.de> wrote:
>>
>> Caro Francesco,
>>
>> My Italian is only rudimentary. Is this what you ask for?
>>
>> Dear Pedro & the experts of art:
>>
>> You wrote that "a great movie ... made me laugh".
>>
>> Can we agree that films are a specific form of art?
>> Films represent something else (namely, e.g., certain humans
>> in certain situations)
>> than they physically are themselves (namely, strings of
>> photos or of computer bits).
>> Given that, can we agree that films are symbols, even if
>> complex ones?
>> May we also agree that even art in general consists of
>> specific kinds of symbols?
>>
>> Art is produced by humans with the intention to be received
>> by (mostly) other humans.
>> Can we agree that art is symbolic communication between humans?
>> And that the artist's intended effect of art at the receiver
>> is inducing emotions?
>> In the body, emotions are carried by symbols, either certain
>> chemicals, nerve pulses
>> or cellular excitation states.
>>
>> So, is art a specific kind of symbolic information transfer
>> between humans?
>>
>> By the way, also sex symbols such as bosoms have the purpose
>> of inducing emotions.
>>
>> Rainer
>>
>> Am 17.02.2026 um 13:32 schrieb Francesco Rizzo:
>>>
>>> Caro Rainer.
>>>
>>> non riesco a leggere il tuo ultimo messaggio. Puoi
>>>
>>> inviarlo di nuovo?
>>>
>>> Grazie.
>>>
>>> Francesco
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Caro Rainer,
>>>
>>> non riesco a leggere il tuo ultimo messaggio. Puoi inviarlo
>>> di nuovo?ù
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Il giorno lun 16 feb 2026 alle ore 21:34 Pedro C. Marijuán
>>> <pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>
>>> Dear Rainer & FIS Colleagues,
>>>
>>> First, I would like to join our Chinese Colleagues in
>>> the Celebration of their New Year. The year of the
>>> Horse: *新年快乐 (Xīnnián kuàilè)*
>>>
>>> And then I would like to ad some fun to the provocative
>>> hypothesis of Rainer on the evolution of female breast.
>>> It comes from a great movie:
>>>
>>> "... this scene from It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://alligator-tunny-3mj4.squarespace.com/config/It's*20a*20Mad*20Mad*20Mad*20Mad*20World__;JSUlJSUl!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WFVu5YtDhZzbe0e_7mOB2Pt7JnW7MHh2IhYnE6n_cPg0KuCsp1MfjahpRzbtgplyPcZUTLkte8H-PEOkRlkp8unyo9Od$> featuring
>>> Milton Berle (J. Russell Finch) and Terry-Thomas (J.
>>> Algernon Hawthorne) - it made me laugh and I ended up
>>> watching the rest of the film.
>>>
>>> *J. Algernon Hawthorne*: I must say that if I had the
>>> grievous misfortune to be a citizen of this benighted
>>> country, I should be the most hesitant of offering any
>>> criticism whatever of any other.
>>>
>>> *J. Russell Finch*: Wait a minute, are you knocking this
>>> country? Are you saying something against America?
>>>
>>> *J. Algernon Hawthorne*: Against it? I should be
>>> positively astounded to hear anything that could be said
>>> FOR it. Why the whole bloody place is the most
>>> unspeakable matriarchy in the whole history of
>>> civilization! Look at yourself! The way your wife and
>>> her strumpet of a mother push you through the hoop!
>>>
>>> As far as I can see, American men have been totally
>>> emasculated- they're like slaves! They die like flies
>>> from coronary thrombosis while their women sit under
>>> hairdryers eating chocolates & arranging for every 2nd
>>> Tuesday to be some sort of Mother's Day!
>>>
>>> And this positively infantile preoccupation with bosoms.
>>> In all time in this wretched Godforsaken country, the
>>> one thing that has appalled me most of all this this
>>> preposterous preoccupation with bosoms.
>>>
>>> Don't you realize they have become the dominant theme in
>>> American culture: in literature, advertising and all
>>> fields of entertainment and everything. I'll wager you
>>> anything you like that if American women stopped wearing
>>> brassieres, your whole national economy would collapse
>>> overnight."
>>>
>>> The two characters are in a car, maintaining this
>>> bizarre dialogue while driving in the quest for a lost
>>> booty. Curiously in a previous scene there is another
>>> amazing dialogue about all the possible partitions of
>>> that booty among the different groups involved in the
>>> quest. Watch it!
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> --Pedro
>>>
>>>
>>> El 16/02/2026 a las 11:21, Rainer Feistel (IOW) escribió:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Krassimir,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, thanks, I fully agree.
>>>>
>>>> It is evident that e.g. viruses inject their own
>>>> genetic information into
>>>> the host cell which then starts producing more viruses ...
>>>>
>>>> Genetic information, I think, is the first form of
>>>> symbolic information, so
>>>> that the origin of life is also the origin of symbols.
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.3390/sym16121611__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UhlNA6rvuC1-sJH711lTW3-XpCYIJ98u0tj7rX0KkP7sTKbd09Do4R2Luu3VPXCqGH3VC60jgltTGWAywQ3qyZxMRqM$
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.3390/sym16121611__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!X718m_IsUTUPwzkksIp2P-qufhu6Y2ekUobXTt2dAG9yd4DvwJ2-H1uS-e8vs3XjNuUi6RlGTDVqIYC7t-01kz2dqqU$>
>>>>
>>>> Rainer
>>>>
>>>> Am 15.02.2026 um 23:19 schrieb Krassimir Markov:
>>>>> Dear Rainer,
>>>>> Your ideas that you have been working on lately are
>>>>> interesting and could find wider support among
>>>>> specialists.
>>>>> For me, as a specialist in the field of information
>>>>> studies, this is another good example of information
>>>>> interaction.
>>>>> It should be specially noted that verbal information
>>>>> interaction is a small part of all possible ones and
>>>>> is only between people.
>>>>> However, in nature, forms of information interaction
>>>>> are diverse and occur at all levels of living matter -
>>>>> starting from the lowest, perhaps cells (I have no
>>>>> examples of a lower level!) and continuing to the
>>>>> social level between people.
>>>>> With respect,
>>>>> Krassimir
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> ----------
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>>>>> ----------
>>>> --
>>>> Note: New Email Address:rainer.feistel at iow.de
>>>> Dr. rer. nat. habil. Rainer Feistel
>>>> Physicist (emeritus)
>>>> PS Gustav Hertz Prize, Berlin 1981
>>>> CITAC Best Paper Award, Paris 2011
>>>> IAPWS Honorary Fellow, London 2013
>>>> BIPM Metrologia Highlight Articles, Paris 2016
>>>> EGU Fridtjof Nansen Medal, Vienna 2018
>>>> LS Daniel Ernst Jablonski Medal, Berlin 2021
>>>> IAPWS Gibbs Award, Boulder, Co., 2024
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Fis mailing list
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>>>> ----------
>>>> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Note: New Email Address:rainer.feistel at iow.de
>> Dr. rer. nat. habil. Rainer Feistel
>> Physicist (emeritus)
>> PS Gustav Hertz Prize, Berlin 1981
>> CITAC Best Paper Award, Paris 2011
>> IAPWS Honorary Fellow, London 2013
>> BIPM Metrologia Highlight Articles, Paris 2016
>> EGU Fridtjof Nansen Medal, Vienna 2018
>> LS Daniel Ernst Jablonski Medal, Berlin 2021
>> IAPWS Gibbs Award, Boulder, Co., 2024
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Fis mailing list
>> Fis at listas.unizar.es
>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>> ----------
>> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>>
>> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo
>> gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
>> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus
>> datos en el siguiente enlace:
>> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
>> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud.
>> puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento
>> en que lo desee.
>> http://listas.unizar.es
>> ----------
>>
> --
> Note: New Email Address:rainer.feistel at iow.de
> Dr. rer. nat. habil. Rainer Feistel
> Physicist (emeritus)
> PS Gustav Hertz Prize, Berlin 1981
> CITAC Best Paper Award, Paris 2011
> IAPWS Honorary Fellow, London 2013
> BIPM Metrologia Highlight Articles, Paris 2016
> EGU Fridtjof Nansen Medal, Vienna 2018
> LS Daniel Ernst Jablonski Medal, Berlin 2021
> IAPWS Gibbs Award, Boulder, Co., 2024
>
--
Note: New Email Address:rainer.feistel at iow.de
Dr. rer. nat. habil. Rainer Feistel
Physicist (emeritus)
PS Gustav Hertz Prize, Berlin 1981
CITAC Best Paper Award, Paris 2011
IAPWS Honorary Fellow, London 2013
BIPM Metrologia Highlight Articles, Paris 2016
EGU Fridtjof Nansen Medal, Vienna 2018
LS Daniel Ernst Jablonski Medal, Berlin 2021
IAPWS Gibbs Award, Boulder, Co., 2024
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