[Fis] The Waling Dead: Axioms versus definitions

[Eric Werner]

Dear All,

For my part, when I work conceptually on the foundations of a new theory 
or trying to understand other theories I think definitions are more 
important than axioms. Coming up with the the right concept to 
understand something to get at the essence of the structure or system 
that controls its behavior. These concepts need to be clarified with 
clear definitions.

What Marcus is getting at is the lack of clarity of thought, at least 
from his perspective.  When a subject is new, then coming up with clear 
conceptions and understanding via definitions (prior to 
axiomatitization) often involves constructing simple examples and 
counterexamples in feedback loop.  Axiomatic systems are much like the 
walking dead  compared to the living process of concept creation.

So my intuition tells me we are in process of creation of the 
theoretical foundations of what information is and its relation to 
living and nonliving systems. Trying to axiomatize too early is putting 
a coffin around a living organisms.

That does not mean we should enter the world where all is accepted no 
matter how contradictory. Reasoning goes beyond axiomatic logic, but 
there are still laws or guides to clear reasoning.

I agree with Marcus, I see more claims with a jumbling of concepts and 
their supposed revolutionary nature than coherence and clarity.

Perhaps this meta-perspective is yet another example of what I am 
criticizing!

-Eric

On 2/12/24 1:06 PM, Karl Javorszky wrote:
> Dear Marcus,
>
> May I answer those points which you direct at ideas Joe and I have 
> floated.
>
> /I have no idea what 'becoming', 'non-axiomatic', or 'liens' (or 
> lines?) mean. I would benefit from clear examples of their role in 
> terms of Material Reality, which is to say the concepts themselves do 
> not appeal to me intuitively./
>
> The term of 'lien' refers to the numeric values you read off the 
> cycles into which the 12 books organize themselves while being 
> reordered from author - title into title - author. Book x is together 
> with books q, r, t in a cycle of your 12 books. Add up the values of 
> the author, title values for the cycles. Credit each member of the 
> cycle with a proportional part of the aggregate of the cycle. This 
> credit for belonging to a whole (in this case, a cycle) is the value 
> of the lien among x, q, r, t.
> Now if you reorder the 12 books according to weight - author and 
> weight - title and gain the liens, then in case there are conflicts 
> about where a thing should be, one can compare the liens and decide 
> opportunistically.
> The liens connecting members of 1 cycle each create together a system 
> of liaisons. (cf Liaisons dangereuses)
>
> Joseph and I are delighted to discuss a fine point of whether the 
> relationship that is dormant counts as existing and whether the 
> ability to create relationships is a property of the symbols as such 
> or rather becomes a potential, dependent on circumstances. I am of a 
> more nativist, material based understanding, but Joe presents the 
> affairs of the things and their relationships as being a 'becoming' 
> due to circumstances, and I don't see any reason to object against the 
> idea.
>
> Generally, if you permit me to give feedback to your perceived role in 
> the group, I surely welcome a fresh and powerful voice. The rhetorical 
> force of your contribution is a change in the tradition of the 
> discourse among the learned friends.
> It helps if you drop in your contributions that what someone else had 
> said. Your well prepared own thoughts keep being welcome.
>
> Karl
>
>
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-- 
/Dr. Eric Werner
Oxford Advanced Research Foundation
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