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<p>Dear All,</p>
<p>For my part, when I work conceptually on the foundations of a new
theory or trying to understand other theories I think definitions
are more important than axioms. Coming up with the the right
concept to understand something to get at the essence of the
structure or system that controls its behavior. These concepts
need to be clarified with clear definitions. <br>
</p>
<p>What Marcus is getting at is the lack of clarity of thought, at
least from his perspective. When a subject is new, then coming up
with clear conceptions and understanding via definitions (prior to
axiomatitization) often involves constructing simple examples and
counterexamples in feedback loop. Axiomatic systems are much like
the walking dead compared to the living process of concept
creation. <br>
</p>
<p>So my intuition tells me we are in process of creation of the
theoretical foundations of what information is and its relation to
living and nonliving systems. Trying to axiomatize too early is
putting a coffin around a living organisms. <br>
</p>
<p>That does not mean we should enter the world where all is
accepted no matter how contradictory. Reasoning goes beyond
axiomatic logic, but there are still laws or guides to clear
reasoning. <br>
</p>
<p>I agree with Marcus, I see more claims with a jumbling of
concepts and their supposed revolutionary nature than coherence
and clarity. <br>
</p>
<p>Perhaps this meta-perspective is yet another example of what I am
criticizing!</p>
<p>-Eric<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/12/24 1:06 PM, Karl Javorszky
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+nf4CWpozcoJba0WjspoVOC8Ca4Gkjn7rxHGup1MtQCXcegjA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">Dear Marcus, </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">May I answer those points which you direct at
ideas Joe and I have floated. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<i> I have no idea what 'becoming', 'non-axiomatic', or
'liens' (or lines?) mean. I would benefit from clear examples
of their role in terms of Material Reality, which is to say
the concepts themselves do not appeal to me intuitively.</i>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The term of 'lien' refers to the numeric values
you read off the cycles into which the 12 books organize
themselves while being reordered from author - title into
title - author. Book x is together with books q, r, t in a
cycle of your 12 books. Add up the values of the author, title
values for the cycles. Credit each member of the cycle with a
proportional part of the aggregate of the cycle. This credit
for belonging to a whole (in this case, a cycle) is the value
of the lien among x, q, r, t. </div>
<div dir="auto">Now if you reorder the 12 books according to
weight - author and weight - title and gain the liens, then in
case there are conflicts about where a thing should be, one
can compare the liens and decide opportunistically.</div>
<div dir="auto">The liens connecting members of 1 cycle each
create together a system of liaisons. (cf Liaisons
dangereuses) </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Joseph and I are delighted to discuss a fine
point of whether the relationship that is dormant counts as
existing and whether the ability to create relationships is a
property of the symbols as such or rather becomes a potential,
dependent on circumstances. I am of a more nativist, material
based understanding, but Joe presents the affairs of the
things and their relationships as being a 'becoming' due to
circumstances, and I don't see any reason to object against
the idea.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Generally, if you permit me to give feedback to
your perceived role in the group, I surely welcome a fresh and
powerful voice. The rhetorical force of your contribution is a
change in the tradition of the discourse among the learned
friends. </div>
<div dir="auto">It helps if you drop in your contributions that
what someone else had said. Your well prepared own thoughts
keep being welcome. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Karl </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
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</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<i>
Dr. Eric Werner <br>
Oxford Advanced Research Foundation <br>
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