[Fis] New discussion session: Can We Go Beyond the Limits of Formal Systems? - Carlos Gershenson

Fri Feb 2 18:15:46 CET 2024

Thanks. Stu

> On Feb 2, 2024, at 1:48 AM, Gordana Dodig Crnkovic <gordana.dodig-crnkovic at chalmers.se> wrote:
> 
> Dear colleagues,
>  
> I am pleased to invite you to an upcoming lecture that builds upon our exploration of the boundaries of scientific knowledge which started with Stuart Kauffman's New Year lecture.
>  
> Title: Can We Go Beyond the Limits of Formal Systems?
> Presenter: Carlos Gershenson, Professor at SUNY Binghamton, affiliated with UNAM (Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México).
> For more information, visit: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bingweb.binghamton.edu/*cgershenson/__;fg!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U9eNYUKYkYNvFtN49JS1aDqAZZNNK8WjzMR7L72RY0wWGs15QrymlpKVzT8ZXtyAvmw8TjTAcRoNEPR-cR50h3E$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bingweb.binghamton.edu/*cgershenson/__;fg!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WuK-l6ZqP1pBaZQaS7eDlc5e3HmDuFx4yg6qrsg56B4Tq4TwnIGrnNlnDdRktupAWqQqtec54T9eNOWJGkWKMvTnWzWaMSP7$>
>  
> The lecture before the New Year was dedicated to a Paradigm Change in AI, led by Yixin Zhong with commentary by Eric Werner.
>  
> Thus, we have a succession of lectures arguing for the need for radical changes in the way we define knowledge in the sciences, broader in the sense of 'Wissenschaft' and even more general in the sense of meaning production. 
> In the case of AI paradigm change, with the advent of generative models, we are observing a radical shift already unfolding in real time, in terms of tools and applications.
>  
> Information, as a conceptual glue (to use a metaphor that comes in so handy), connecting different ways of knowledge/meaning-production places the Foundations of Information Science (FIS) and the whole field of the Study of Information, (IS4SI community), center stage.
>  
> Looking forward to discussing the limits of formal systems with Carlos Gershenson.
> Best regards,
> Gordana
>  
>  
>  
> __________________________________________________
> Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic
> Professor
> Chalmers University of Technology and
> Mälardalen University, Sweden
>  
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>  
>  
>  
> From: Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es>> on behalf of "Pedro C. Marijuán" <pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com <mailto:pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com>>
> Date: Thursday, 1 February 2024 at 12:56
> To: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>>
> Subject: [Fis] NY Lecture closing & New discussion session
>  
>  
> Dear All,
>  
> First, our thanks to Stuart Kauffman, we have enjoyed a great New Year Lecture.
> Along the Lecture it was suggested by Stuart himself and by Gordana to continue with a presentation by Carlos Gershenson.
> Here it is: 
>  
> Title: Can we go beyond the limits of formal systems?
> Presenter: Carlos Gershenson (Centro de Ciencias de la Complejidad, UNAM, México).
>  
>  
> Tomorrow our colleague Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic will post a brief presentation on the topic and the lecturer.
> And afterwards, Carlos will send his kickoff text at his earlier convenience.
> Some new colleagues have joined the list these days. They are very welcome to our debates.
>  
> All the best--Pedro
>  
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán (FIS List Coordination)
> Archives of the list messages: http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/
> List of discussion-sessions: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://fis.sciforum.net/fis-discussion-sessions/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U9eNYUKYkYNvFtN49JS1aDqAZZNNK8WjzMR7L72RY0wWGs15QrymlpKVzT8ZXtyAvmw8TjTAcRoNEPR-9JA0rfs$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://fis.sciforum.net/fis-discussion-sessions/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XykRIqcVydP4gKo43PNt5H3fHQOS9MmKduoIFiCptTi65yjCVlLsNnr6ZgIdiUWOYU7pTdRPBz5d_cLXM_UzHg_23w1R$>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
> El 31/01/2024 a las 17:43, Stuart Kauffman escribió:
>> To FIS Jan 31
>>  
>> Hello to All,
>>  
>> I have very much enjoyed the past month and all the ideas flooding back and forth. If I may, a few summary comments:
>>  
>> I ask you all to please focus on “Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?” Here two aspects seem important in a discussion on information:
>>  
>> 1)    It is true that a living cells, a Kantian Whole with Catalytic, Constraint and Spatial Closure, specifically constructs itself.  There really is no “separate” set of embodied instructions with dual uses as is in von Neumann’s self - reproducing automaton. Yet Information as “encoded bit” descriptions of a Mondrian painting also is true. The encoded description can be sent by email and used to construct a copy of the picture and the encoded description in bits can be copied and stored.  These two are not the same thing. Both seem to be information. So, what do we mean by “information”?
>> 2)    The Third Transition in Science also seems well founded. The same object has different subsets of causal properties, any one of which might become the basis of a new function arising by Darwinian preadaptation. This drives the open - ended evolution of the biosphere. This jury rigging is not algorithmic. No formal system, e.g. computational Artificial Life, or algorithmic computation on a non-embodied Universal Turing Machine can achieve open ended evolution. Yet A Llife and the Mind as a Computer are powerful metaphors. Both are wrong. The evolving biosphere is not a computation at all, it is a propagating non deducible construction entailed by no law. General Artificial Intelligence seems ruled out.  
>> 3)    We humans jury rig, so do Caledonian Crows. Jury rigging is not algorithmic. How do we and crows do it? My own hunch is that qualia arise by collapse of the wave function to a single state that “I” experience as a qualia. Collapse of the wave function is also not a deduction. I bet this is related to non-algorithmic jury rigging. 
>> 4)    If mind and consciousness are related to acausal collapse of the wave function, how does that bear on “information”? I want to say, my qualiae ARE information about my world. With my Responsible Free Will I choose to act in my world. This why mind evolved.
>>  
>>  
>> Very good wishes to you All and warm thanks.
>>  
>> Stu Kauffman
>>  
>>  
>  
>  
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