[Fis] Five Clouds over Fundamental Information Science. Information and Computation

Gordana Dodig Crnkovic gordana.dodig-crnkovic at chalmers.se
Thu Dec 5 18:42:20 CET 2024 

Dear Xueshan

I would like to comment on the following passage:
“Dear Gordana,
They are not parallel. We are not discussing the same issue.
I was shocked to see Mark's statement; we all coincidentally thought of the root of the word "information" in English. Mark used "inf," while I used "infor," and the root of the word "goods" is "ware." The significance of Mark's work lies in his attempt to bring computer science back to the path of information science. ‘Hardware,’ ‘Software,’ and ‘Infware’ – three beautiful instances of parallelism. If it were me, I would likely have created this new word as well. It is already a well-known mystery that computer science does not study information issues.
Gordana, thank you for providing this clue.

Best wishes,
Xueshan”

This was the response to my original inquiry regarding Mark Burgin's perspective, as described in his book:
Burgin, M. (2005). Super-Recursive Algorithms,<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/b138114__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBT_J-ci1$ > Springer Monographs in Computer Science. p. 4:
"Any IPS, we denote it by W, consists of three components:

  *   Hardware, which consists of physical devices of the Information Processing System, IPS.
  *   Software, which contains programs that regulate the IPS functioning.
  *   Infware, which represents information processed by the IPS."
Mark’s concept of “infware” (which, in my opinion, could alternatively be termed “infoware”) aligns interestingly with the linguistic layers of syntax, semantics, and pragmatics. This demonstrates a parallel between the structure of information and its processing within computational systems.

The connection between information and computation is fundamental: Information is a structure. Computation is information processing.

In Europe Computer Science (Computing) field is named “Informatics”.

World Scientific has a book series: World Scientific Series in Information Studies<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/series/wssis__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBYVjKnoR$ >
to which many of the members of FIS community as well as IS4SI community have contributed during the years.
Book series was edited for many years by Mark Burgin. Here are the series volumes for reference:

Volume 17-Forthcoming -Understanding Information and Its Role as a Tool: In Memory of Mark Burgin<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/13892__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBYW3dvwG$ >
Marcin J Schroeder<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Schroeder*2C*Marcin*J__;JSsr!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBUGZmEr1$ > (Akita International University, Japan) and
Wolfgang Hofkirchner<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Hofkirchner*2C*Wolfgang__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBZlMFRWP$ > (TU Wien, Austria & The Institute for a Global Sustainable Information Society (GSIS), Austria)

Volume 16-Probability, Information, and Physics: Problems with Quantum Mechanics in the Context of a Novel Probability Theory<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/13319__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBUdivYLu$ >
Paolo Rocchi<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Rocchi*2C*Paolo__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBekIwcmz$ > (IBM, Italy & LUISS University, Italy)

Volume 15-Chaos, Information, and the Future of Physics: The Seaman-Rössler Dialogue with Information Perspectives by Burgin and Seaman<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/13280__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBW01EbBy$ >
William Seaman<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Seaman*2C*William__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBYn6b74U$ > (Duke University, USA),
Otto E Rössler<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/R**Assler*2C*Otto*E__;w7YlKys!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBb9um78c$ > (University of Tübingen, Germany), and
Mark Burgin<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Burgin*2C*Mark__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBSLYs8Sa$ > (University of California, Los Angeles, USA)

Volume 14-The Logic of the Third: A Paradigm Shift to a Shared Future for Humanity<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/12985__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBWdrmfg_$ >
Wolfgang Hofkirchner<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Hofkirchner*2C*Wolfgang__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBZlMFRWP$ > (The Institute for a Global Sustainable Information Society, Vienna, Austria)

Volume 13-Ontological Information: Information in the Physical World<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/12601__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBTq6KVOl$ >
Roman Krzanowski<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Krzanowski*2C*Roman__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBb9S5XBP$ > (The Pontifical University of John Paul II, Poland)

Volume 12-Trilogy of Numbers and Arithmetic: Book 1: History of Numbers and Arithmetic: An Information Perspective<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/12273__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBbT7TUfM$ >
Mark Burgin<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Burgin*2C*Mark__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBSLYs8Sa$ > (University of California, Los Angeles, USA)

Volume 11-Theoretical Information Studies: Information in the World<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/11191__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBSXQQw3y$ >
Mark Burgin<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Burgin*2C*Mark__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBSLYs8Sa$ > (University of California, Los Angeles, USA) and
Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Dodig-Crnkovic*2C*Gordana__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBay1vt5B$ > (Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden & Mälardalen University, Sweden)

Volume 10-Philosophy and Methodology of Information: The Study of Information in the Transdisciplinary Perspective<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/11190__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBcIS1l8V$ >
Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Dodig-Crnkovic*2C*Gordana__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBay1vt5B$ > (Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden & Mälardalen University, Sweden) and
Mark Burgin<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Burgin*2C*Mark__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBSLYs8Sa$ > (University of California, Los Angeles, USA)

Volume 9-Information Studies and the Quest for Transdisciplinarity: Unity through Diversity<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/10016__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBfGrG9Am$ >
Mark Burgin<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Burgin*2C*Mark__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBSLYs8Sa$ > (UCLA) and
Wolfgang Hofkirchner<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Hofkirchner*2C*Wolfgang__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBZlMFRWP$ > (Vienna University of Technology, Austria)

Volume 8-The Future Information Society: Social and Technological Problems<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/10015__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBcM2J8QZ$ >
Wolfgang Hofkirchner<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Hofkirchner*2C*Wolfgang__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBZlMFRWP$ > (Vienna University of Technology, Austria) and
Mark Burgin<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Burgin*2C*Mark__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBSLYs8Sa$ > (UCLA)

Volume 7-Information Theory Models of Instabilities in Critical Systems<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/10214__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBaVBzZd-$ >
Rodrick Wallace<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Wallace*2C*Rodrick__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBROy9dnY$ > (Columbia University, USA)

Volume 6-Information and Complexity<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/10017__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBWaXmXsF$ >
Mark Burgin<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Burgin*2C*Mark__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBSLYs8Sa$ > (UCLA) and
Cristian S Calude<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Calude*2C*Cristian*S__;JSsr!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBSTArZ-E$ > (University of Auckland, New Zealand)

Volume 5-Theory of Knowledge: Structures and Processes<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/8893__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBblAH5xR$ >
Mark Burgin<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Burgin*2C*Mark__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBSLYs8Sa$ > (UCLA)

Volume 4-An Information Approach to Mitochondrial Dysfunction: Extending Swerdlow's Hypothesis<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/9527__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBUYD48yX$ >
Rodrick Wallace<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Wallace*2C*Rodrick__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBROy9dnY$ > (Columbia University, USA)

Volume 3-Emergent Information: A Unified Theory of Information Framework<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/7805__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBaUNOhHO$ >
Wolfgang Hofkirchner<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Hofkirchner*2C*Wolfgang__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBZlMFRWP$ > (Vienna University of Technology, Austria)

Volume 2-Information and Computation: Essays on Scientific and Philosophical Understanding of Foundations of Information and Computation<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/7637__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBd-8XUyw$ >
Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Dodig-Crnkovic*2C*Gordana__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBay1vt5B$ > (Mälardalen University, Sweden) and
Mark Burgin<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Burgin*2C*Mark__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBSLYs8Sa$ > (University of California, Los Angeles, USA)

Volume 1-Theory of Information: Fundamentality, Diversity and Unification<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/7048__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBfHZ6ruC$ >
Mark Burgin<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldscientific.com/author/Burgin*2C*Mark__;JSs!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SZCLtfB-RpGZJrjsbZ9Wcw-pVbw69K8QbmBoBOD435-v1mdSbK8iefs6_k8nawrcKY1naRZEoxIAn7LNgp0LB-uaBSLYs8Sa$ > (University of California, Los Angeles, USA)

This collection, especially Volume 2, provides insights into the relationship between information (structure) and computation (its dynamics), with contributions from prominent scholars like Marvin Minsky, Aaron Sloman, Oron Shagrir, John Collier, Greg Chaitin, and Søren Brier, among others.

Best regards,
Gordana


From: Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Xueshan Yan <yxs at pku.edu.cn>
Organisation: CHINA
Reply to: "yxs at pku.edu.cn" <yxs at pku.edu.cn>
Date: Thursday, 5 December 2024 at 14:31
To: FIS <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: [Fis] Five Clouds over Fundamental Information Science

Dear Joseph,
No, no, we are your students, forever. For many years, you have always used beautiful language and a natural scientist's perspective to sharply narrate every information issue, which is evident to all.
Today, from a philosophical perspective, you have examined every question I have raised, and I am very pleased. Especially your review: “Hidden in Cloud 4 is the 'philosopher's stone' with which the nature of information can be tested. The question is whether the phenomenon under study is capable of effecting change.”
We have exchanges over 10 years and understand each other very easily.
Best wishes，
Xueshan
==========================
Dear Marcus,
Explanation 1*: It explains the background behind my proposal for the concept of inforware.
Explanation 2**: An inforware is divided into three levels: Information, Sign, and Substrate. The substrate is at the bottom level and is typically outside the scope of information science research. "ENTITY" and "AGENT" are good words, feel free to use them instead of worrying too much about what I said.
Best wishes,
Xueshan
==========================
Dear Eric,
I really appreciate your explanation. When reviewing the different definitions of "information" by information scientists, we find that many scholars define it as "code" or "sequence". At the same time, when looking back at the history of the definition of genes, from the original concept of “gene” to “genetic material”, most molecular biologists prefer to use "information" instead of "gene" today. Therefore, I would like try to express this issue using a language of fundamental information science: CRISPR is a technology that edits base signs sequences through genetic engineering, ultimately leading to changes in genetic information. I don't know if this statement is correct.
Best wishes,
Xueshan
==========================
Dear Gordana,
They are not parallel. We are not discussing the same issue.
I was shocked to see Mark's statement; we all coincidentally thought of the root of the word "information" in English. Mark used "inf," while I used "infor," and the root of the word "goods" is "ware." The significance of Mark's work lies in his attempt to bring computer science back to the path of information science. “Hardware”, “Software”, “Infware" – three beautiful instances of parallelism. If it were me, I would likely have created this new word as well. It is already a well-known mystery that computer science does not study information issues.
Gordana, thank you for providing this clue.
Best wishes,
Xueshan
==========================
Dear Francesco,
Your triad of meaning, information and communication is very interesting. Let's hear everyone's comments.
Best wishes,
Xueshan
==========================
From: fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> On Behalf Of joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2024 6:32 PM
To: yxs at pku.edu.cn; FIS <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: [Fis] Five Clouds over Fundamental Information Science

Dear Professor Yan,

You have given us – your "students" – a very difficult assignment. To make it a little easier for myself, I decided to look at the different issues from the perspective of the ontic-epistemic distinction, starting with those in your title. The real problem for me, thus is with the two lines of the second footnote (**):

Clouds

      On first thought, a homogeneous form constituted by water droplets; on a second, the very embodiment of ontic change, appearance, growth and disappearance, with violent exchanges of energy as lightning.

Signs

      The sign is a representation, as accurate as you please, of a real object or process. On this basis it is essentially epistemic. Information, on the other hand, has both epistemic and ontic properties, and cannot be reduced to signs.

Meaning (Cloud 1)

      Following the second point, information and meaning can be considered as two different expressions of one existence (or existence tout court), both embodying and applicable to change.

Brain or Animal Informatics (Cloud 2)

      This Cloud seems mainly concerned with Informatics as an epistemic field, essentially self-defined. I have nothing particular to add.

Genetics as a Discipline of Informatics (Cloud 3)

      What is being elaborated here is a further aspect of what I have concluded is an epistemic domain. Bases can function as signs, if you will, but the phenomena of interest are, exactly, those in neuroscience and endocrinology and it is the ontic properties of the bases (residual charge, etc.) that determine how the genetic material functions.

Communication between Infowares

      Hidden in this Cloud 4 is the “philosopher’s stone” with which the nature of information can be tested. The question, as many have stated in their definitions of information, is whether the phenomenon under study is capable of effecting change. On this basis, I can confirm by experience that my cats (pace) and I communicated.

Exploration of Fundamental Information Science

      The commonalities between in information disciplines, as embodied in most of the above Clouds, remain for me epistemic, questions of semantic modes of existence. That their “complexity and enormity” exist all right and have been difficult to handle in science and philosophy is clear. In this view, however, Cloud 2 on Meaning is the counterargument to Line **, which I reproduce here:

      “Studies focused solely on substrates typically (emphasis mine) fall under the technical or natural sciences rather than information science.”

      What this says to me is that at worst (at best?), my ontic approach to meaning-information is a-typical but can exist. It thus co-exists with the largely epistemic standard view, and this co-existence can be studied as an aspect of information science as well. I give the last word to the 5th Century BCE Greek playwright Aristophanes, whose a-typical play The Clouds focused on problems of knowledge and existence (“The Thinkery”).

Best wishes,
Joseph

Le 02.12.2024 10:09 CET, Xueshan Yan <yxs at pku.edu.cn<mailto:yxs at pku.edu.cn>> a écrit :



Dear colleagues,

I have summarized five sets of puzzles faced by fundamental information science and called them 'clouds' ― some of which have been emphasized by Pedro on many occasions. I am now glade to hear everyone's different opinions.



Best wishes,

Xueshan Yan

Professor Emeritus

Department of Information Management

Peking University, China







Five Clouds over Fundamental Information Science

Xueshan Yan

Inforware*: Information must exist in signs, and signs must exist on substrates**. We define a trinity composed of information, sign, and substrate as an Inforware.

Four Concomitant Disciplines: Based on the structure of an inforware, we have Informatics for studying information, and Semiotics for studying signs―the existence mode of information. Since communication is the transmission of information and computation is the processing of information, we also have another two fundamental disciplines: Communication Studies and Computation Studies. These four disciplines are concomitant; that is, if one is present, the other three (or more) will eventually emerge.

Cloud 1. Information and Meaning: What is information? Since 1948, information scientists have been discussing it for 76 years, yet still cannot provide a definitive answer. What is meaning? Since 1825, linguists have been debating it for 200 years and still cannot reach a definitive conclusion. Nevertheless, linguistics has been established successfully. Let’s consider a hypothesis: if we were to suspend all discussions about the definition of information for three years, what else could we do? From a human perspective, are information and meaning two homogenous issues? Or are they two different expressions of one existence?

Cloud 2. Brain Informatics or Animal Informatics: It has been demonstrated that any organism with a brain inforware can communicate with others; therefore, brain informatics must exist, ―storing, sending, and receiving information are fundamental functions of the brain―, and human informatics already exists. Similarly, we could explore bee informatics, elephant informatics, and so on. Can we assume that there are as many types of animal informatics as there are animal species?

Cloud 3. Genetics as a Discipline of Informatics: Cells can communicate. The central dogma of molecular biology describes the pathway of DNA→RNA→protein, through which genetic information flows. In this process, DNA serves as substrate, bases function as signs, and genomics represents informatics. If we propose that genetics is the most successful branch of informatics, what would be the response from biologists? Could a similar phenomenon also be observed in neuroscience and endocrinology?

Cloud 4. Communication between Inforwares: Some speculate that two supramolecules can communicate with each other. But can two ordinary molecules communicate? Can two atoms communicate? Can two celestial bodies communicate? Can plants communicate with one another? Can different inforwares communicate across different levels? Is the communication between humans and cats true communication (language comprehension) or false communication (conditional reflex)?

Cloud 5. Exploration of Fundamental Information Science: Can we regard fundamental information science as an exploration based on the inductive method, focusing on the commonalities among various fundamental information disciplines, especially the four concomitant disciplines mentioned above? The complexity and enormity of this venture have far exceeded anyone's imagination. Is it one of the most challenging disciplines to study in contemporary times? Or, does it not exist at all?

---------------------

*Any discipline has its own concept framework, which is why I coined the new term Inforware. For example, the computer science is built on the two primary concepts of hardware and software.

**Studies focused solely on substrates typically fall under the technical or natural sciences rather than information science.

_______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
Fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:Fis at listas.unizar.es>
http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
----------
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL

Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
http://listas.unizar.es
----------
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20241205/3324c4b3/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the Fis mailing list