[Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 105, Issue 4
Eric Werner
eric.werner at oarf.org
Mon Oct 16 12:32:52 CEST 2023
Dear All, Here are some points I thought of this morning: My thoughts
on AI paradigm shift not yet ready.
Eric Werner Thoughts on social brains and AI
* Interesting that you should mention the cell. I have developed
softer that simulates the growth of multicellular systems, including
cancer. One example is a cell signaling cancer were cells divide,
depending on whether they receive certain signals or not. I have
attached a photo. The cells have the capacity to grow exponentially
(explosive cancer) but do not since they are dependent on receiving
signals in order to act. In the simulation, the cells are governed
by their cancer networks encoded in their Genome-DNA. The cells have
the capacity for interacting with other cells by way of cell
signaling and cell to cell physics. I view the cells as being social
agents that interact by way of communication, and that have
intentional states that are in part encoded in their genomes.
* There are different ways of defining the notion of intention.
Intentional stage can be a set of strategies that are consistent
with the intentions of the agent. I know this is circular but just
for explanatory purposes. Another way is to define intentions
directly by way of constructing them out of more basic partial
strategies.
* Particularly interesting is that my theory of intentions, links
information, states of the agent to their intentional states. This
is done by way of the notion of ability, informally defining
ability, and agent can do some thing if the agent has a strategy to
do that some thing. For example, when I say I can beat you in 10
moves in chess, that means that I have a strategy that no matter
what you do I am able to win after 10 moves. Chess is a game of
perfect information. In games of partial information the existence
of strategies depends on the existence of sufficient information.
Therefore information, its existence is a necessary condition for
the existence of strategies. Information directly creates strategies
making intentional states of agents possible.
* Given the agent has a strategy as information for its existence, it
does not mean that the agent will follow that strategy. Their
emotional, utilitarian rationality comes into play.
* So we have to distinguish between the execution of a strategy and
having a strategy available.
* As I said, I’m concerned with the minimal conditions that make a
society possible at all. There I’m thinking about humans social
communication, animal communication and cell communication.
* So communication theory, fundamentally involves information,
intention, and value. Value, of course involves emotions.
* Because of my interest and embryological development. I have also
worked on all the brain functions in relation to intention
information and value. I remember when teaching in Africa, a friend
of mine TOM TOBIAS and the beds on the nature of intention in the
brain. He was investigating the neurons he had discovered that fire
when the monkey intends to pick something up before he actually
picks it up. With high hopes he came to Africa from Japan
specifically because he thought there would be monkeys there for his
research. Unfortunately discovered that the monkeys had all been
eaten. So is left discussing the notion of intention with me rather
than doing the experiments.
* Relating to artificial intelligence systems, if we’re going to make
them behave appropriately and socially acceptable ways, then we
better understand the nature of intention the nature of
communication and the nature of how the mind works. I think we can
do this best by understanding how minimal systems work. And
investigating how the brain works in humans, animals, vertebrates,
and even insects.
* The power of formal approaches is that they are by their very
nature, simple, far simpler than our vague human cognition.
* It may be difficult to separate artificial intelligence from
artificial social intelligence. If by artificial intelligence being
mean, an intelligence, that is purely, rational, given certain
assumptions makes deductions. It is just a kind of inference
machine, but reasoning is more than that. Fortunately, or
unfortunately the scientific rational process is a highly social and
political process.
*
My theory of the social architecture of the brain
o The actual brain architecture
o The connectome
o Historical theories of semantics meaning
+ Based on the logical view of information
+ Ignored the social aspect of intention
+ Ignored social information
+ And that through the world consists of facts
+ Described by assertions of a true or false
+ My first theory of information and communication was
influenced by this concept, where communication consists of
operators on information states. This was influenced by
quantum mechanics and von Neumann’s Mathematical foundations
of quantum mechanics.
+ Through the influence of Habermas, and I realize that the
most information or much of information consists of
statements that are not true or faults, but rather involve
intentions of agents
+ So it is with the social brain much of its processing is
involved with the processing of intentions
+ Anamystic world
+ Social brain networks
+
On 10/15/23 12:44 PM, Krassimir Markov wrote:
> Dear Pedro, Yixin and Eric,
> Thank you for your ideas.
> I follow the discussions in FIS with interest.
> The diversity of ideas is inspiring and stimulating.
> It is very important for me to know your understanding of
> "intelligence", "social intelligence", "social information".
> Please, if possible, give your definitions of these terms.
> I think it is important to discuss later separately the concepts of
> "artificial intelligence" and "artificial social intelligence", since
> there are different aspects and points of view to the emergence, goals
> and development of these scientific fields.
> With respect,
> Krassimir
>
> На пт, 13.10.2023 г. в 15:48 ч. <fis-request at listas.unizar.es> написа:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. FIS Discussion Session on AI (Pedro C. Mariju?n)
> 2. Re: FIS Discussion Session on AI (Karl Javorszky)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Pedro C. Marijuán" <pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com>
> To: "'fis'" <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 13:10:29 +0200
> Subject: [Fis] FIS Discussion Session on AI
> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>
> Many thanks to Yixin and Eric for their contributions. Both
> represent interesting (partial) approaches to the brave new world
> that AI and related technologies are in the process of enacting.
>
> I had the opportunity to briefly discuss with Yixin on the AI
> Paradigm. My basic point of view is that we all are still ignoring
> the general nature of intelligence.
> There is a biological root (exactly, cellular) that very few
> people consider and try to connect with neuronal or social
> manifestations of intelligence.
> Failing to see the way the living cell strategically organizes its
> processing resources to enact a life cycle, means leaving in the
> pure air the crucial use of our own informational resources to,
> yes, advance our own lives.
>
> Eric's contribution is an step on that direction, but within the
> formal approaches to info/meaning/knowledge. Insufficient thus.
> The problem is that we as individuals disappear from the
> scientific-technological landscape --only left for datafication,
> for control.
> The human life cycle's global intelligence is mainly handled via
> (mostly social) emotions, also an ill-defined, ill-understood
> territory in science...
> That our social emotions are completely misunderstood and
> mishandled at the social level is horribly seen these
> days/months/years...
>
> I disagree with the critical, negativist approaches to AI, which I
> think has a great merit and transformative possibilities --- if,
> and only if, it is accompanied by a deep scientific change.
>
> Call it new paradigm, social information or whatever. I see more
> alive than ever the original goals of this list 25 years ago:
> Foundations of Information Science!
>
> Best wishes to all,
>
> Pedro
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> FIS Coordination
> /FIS Archives last 10 years:/
> http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/
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>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Karl Javorszky <karl.javorszky at gmail.com>
> To: "Pedro C. Marijuán" <pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com>
> Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 14:46:42 +0200
> Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS Discussion Session on AI
>
> Dear Pedro and FIS Colleagues,
>
> Thank you for reopening our long discussion, and with such
> high-quality position statements as we have read from respected
> researchers*Yixin Zhong*.and *Eric Werner*.
>
> Eric Werner uses an approach to a system of interacting entities
> which is rooted in empirical research. We are invited to share and
> cooperatively develop a concept that describes the functioning of
> intelligence as a process of information management. Nature is
> performing the trick, therefore, so I understand Eric, we should
> be able to translate the interaction patterns in symbolic denotation.
>
> Yixin Zhong presents us with a formal treatise. In it, almost in
> the form of a check-list, requirements are elaborated which give
> form and delineation to an explanatory system which shows us the
> mechanism of Artificial Intelligence to be subject to rational rules.
>
> The formal approach invites one to go through each paragraph and
> state agreement and provide details. Such a work would be too
> tiresome and lengthy, and would go too much in detail for the
> present phase of this session’s discussion.
>
> Please allow me to present a viewpoint which could appear to some
> as a gate-crashing, introducing a third variation on a theme,
> without being invited to do so. The synthesis which now follows
> should better be understood as a 3^rd movement of a music which
> rephrases and integrates the themata of the previous two movements.
>
> The *paradigm shift* comes from a new understanding of the basic
> rules of Nature. There is a precedent to its main thesis,
> Pythagoras. According to the Pythagorean perspective of the world,
> there exists an inner harmony in Nature, which is potentially
> recognizable. The main entrance into an edifice of understanding
> Nature is given to us by means of the numbers.
>
> This is in fact so. Eric refers to Wittgenstein and language logic
> as cornerstones of his argumentation. Advances in technology have
> permitted us to expand and partly rewrite Wittgenstein’s work. A
> falling apple and paper and pencil were sufficient to establish
> rules that govern inanimate objects. One needs a computer to
> decipher the rules that govern Nature in biologic contexts.
>
> The problem is not that there would be no rational doors and
> windows into the mysteries of intelligence, artificial or not. The
> first problem is, that the voice of reason speaks in a whisper.
> The real impediment opposing reason is that the voice insinuates
> /unthinkable, unconventional, unheard-of /contents, which do not
> appear to have a context.
>
> The situation is today similar to that which greeted Gregor
> Mendel. Having found a pattern (of hereditary traits, in his
> case), having tried to alert the scientific establishment to the
> importance of the pattern was not igniting a heap of highly
> charged attention, groundbreaking interest, because the questions
> were not arranged such that their interrelation (by means of that
> pattern Mendel was trying to sell) could have reached a critical
> mass of curiosity and intellectual challenge.
>
> Today, the green and yellow peas are not laboriously planted in
> the garden of the abbey. They are instead named /a,b /and are
> entries in a cell in a database.
>
> The patterns that yellow and green /a,b /produce once one gives
> them an experimental workover, are more than fascinating. They are
> fundamental.
>
> The convoluted interrelations among symbols that describe the
> concepts and appearances of the mental construct ‘information,
> intelligence, alternatives’ etc. can easily be read off the
> natural numbers, if one uses them as /pairs (a,b) /which are
> individuals. We use simple sorting and ordering operations to
> produce interrelated chains of occurrences, which is what we
> actually look for when discussing information, intelligence,
> alternatives, choices, predictability and so forth.
>
> There exists a numbering-counting system that works on assemblies
> of symbols that are in their entirety a Whole. The Whole as a unit
> includes the concept of something like the strength of belonging
> together. This fundamental property of the symbols system, that
> its members indeed do have some external (objectively existing)
> relationships among each other, the discovery of numerical extents
> of this collagen-like natural ‘force’, is a great revindication of
> Pythagoras (and of animistic religions). The sober S&T (Science
> and Technology) facts are easy to reproduce on one’s own computer.
> The key to the measure of consistency lies in a small detail of
> the procedure of resorting objects, namely that the individual
> objects team up into linear sequences, which are called *cycles,
> *in the course of a reorder. We credit each individual with a
> proportionate amount of the resources of the cycles the element is
> a member of. The cycle as such is both the abstract summation over
> all its members, and also the individual extents that remain a
> property of each element. We suggest the name of *liaison *for a
> collection of data referring to the extents of the *liens
> *elements are bonded with each other due to being members of one
> specific cycle during one specific reorder. The numeric property
> of *alliances *among members in a situation of indecision, whether
> reorder A ↔ B or rather C ↔ D is currently taking place, gives a
> market-value depth to the calculations conducted using the
> traditional methods.
>
> The patterns are here and claim recognition. This is what Mendel
> kept saying. Once *Yixin Zhong*.and *Eric Werner* familiarize
> themselves with calculating alliance weights and factors, they
> will find a grandiosely simple but very potent and versatile tool
> for their further research. The paradigm change is to look at the
> back side of the elementary Sumerian units, and discover that
> there are distinguishing symbols etched there, which can be read
> if one uses /two /of the elements together. An element with
> properties /(a,b) /will be on position /k_1 /when sorted on
> /[//α,//β] /and will be on position /k_2 /when sorted on
> /[//γ,//δ]. /How does it get from here to there? How much lien
> bonds the element to its allies (‘co-cyclists’, members of the
> same cycle)?
>
> In the hope to have contributed to the subject of the present session,
>
> Thanks again for the well-written and convincing papers,
>
> Karl
>
>
> Am Fr., 13. Okt. 2023 um 13:11 Uhr schrieb Pedro C. Marijuán
> <pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com>:
>
> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>
> Many thanks to Yixin and Eric for their contributions. Both
> represent interesting (partial) approaches to the brave new
> world that AI and related technologies are in the process of
> enacting.
>
> I had the opportunity to briefly discuss with Yixin on the AI
> Paradigm. My basic point of view is that we all are still
> ignoring the general nature of intelligence.
> There is a biological root (exactly, cellular) that very few
> people consider and try to connect with neuronal or social
> manifestations of intelligence.
> Failing to see the way the living cell strategically organizes
> its processing resources to enact a life cycle, means leaving
> in the pure air the crucial use of our own informational
> resources to, yes, advance our own lives.
>
> Eric's contribution is an step on that direction, but within
> the formal approaches to info/meaning/knowledge. Insufficient
> thus.
> The problem is that we as individuals disappear from the
> scientific-technological landscape --only left for
> datafication, for control.
> The human life cycle's global intelligence is mainly handled
> via (mostly social) emotions, also an ill-defined,
> ill-understood territory in science...
> That our social emotions are completely misunderstood and
> mishandled at the social level is horribly seen these
> days/months/years...
>
> I disagree with the critical, negativist approaches to AI,
> which I think has a great merit and transformative
> possibilities --- if, and only if, it is accompanied by a deep
> scientific change.
>
> Call it new paradigm, social information or whatever. I see
> more alive than ever the original goals of this list 25 years
> ago: Foundations of Information Science!
>
> Best wishes to all,
>
> Pedro
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> FIS Coordination
> /FIS Archives last 10 years:/
> http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/
> /List of discussion sessions last 25 years:/
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://fis.sciforum.net/fis-discussion-sessions/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TPGMLLA0eQ-GFJo2oy_Tc_dLr-kF6cSxGHZNjr8jlMHW1dNtKNxwxUOh5kfu6HNTnwKWdjzqjyU1xm8oc200ok0$
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/Dr. Eric Werner
Oxford Advanced Research Foundation
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/
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