[Fis] The Basic Core of Wisdom - the main body
Pedro C. Marijuán
pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com
Fri Nov 3 12:29:46 CET 2023
Dear All,
I cannot respond in length to Mark, as it would be too complex. My
limited view & experience is that that parallel to the computer
revolution a generation ago, there are less scholars and the level of
scholarship is lower, multidisciplinarity is more and more technical
(computer & data oriented almost everywhere), less deep-thinking books
are published, and even the public in general looks more captured and
tense under the impact of all the screens around thir daily lives. The
reason (if there is an underlying common reason?) maybe it is the"social
information" new regime... the historical parallel with the multiple
changes & disturbs after the book revolution of 15-16th century is
striking. One is reminded McLuhan on the psychological and cognitive
impacts of new media.
And now a series of advanced AI systems join the panorama. In general
most of us welcome it and, as Yixin has put, it could be accompanied
(should be) by a paradigm revolution. We have discussed on how that new
paradigm should be oriented, and personally I have emphasized the need
to connect with "natural intelligence" --the origin of all intelligence
on Earth. And, interestingly, Eric has emphasized the need to reflect in
these new LLMSs or LMBS the architecture of the human social brain so to
make them really cooperative systems. I have no space to include the
views & criticisms by Plamen, Krassimir, Karl, Marcus, et al. On the one
side, I see that these systems have the capability to achieve far more
knowledge and even "wisdom" than any human being or groups of (most
discussants see wisdom as "binary" and exclusively human, but I already
gave my reasons against that). On the other side, it is obvious that
this growing capability of processing and acting is causing chills &
fears... See the following news agency note (received courtesy from
Malcolm Dean):
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://apnews.com/article/artificial-intelligence-risks-uk-summit-regulation-ce89e842a176e55e46b6cc493cd515a5__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VxvqVh_7CZEQDbazwiq9Blw55q6xEAiScVbF-5oKYfpeN4UktJwu_G9ZawMDI2A_xvAxOxOooV8rGI7ucLZwizgbR83I$
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://apnews.com/article/artificial-intelligence-risks-uk-summit-regulation-ce89e842a176e55e46b6cc493cd515a5__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VxvqVh_7CZEQDbazwiq9Blw55q6xEAiScVbF-5oKYfpeN4UktJwu_G9ZawMDI2A_xvAxOxOooV8rGI7ucLZwizgbR83I$ >
AP News, 31 October 2023
*Cutting-edge AI raises fears about risks to humanity. Are tech and
political leaders doing enough?
*
by Kelvin Chan
LONDON (AP) — Chatbots like ChatGPT wowed the world with their ability
to write speeches, plan vacations or hold a conversation as good as or
arguably even better than humans do, thanks to cutting-edge artificial
intelligence systems. Now, frontier AI has become the latest buzzword as
concerns grow that the emerging technology has capabilities that could
endanger humanity.
Everyone from the British government to top researchers and even major
AI companies themselves are raising the alarm about frontier AI’s
as-yet-unknown dangers and calling for safeguards to protect people from
its existential threats. ...
I wonder, maybe what do we fear is wisdom itself??
All the best,
--Pedro
El 31/10/2023 a las 13:14, Mark Johnson escribió:
> Dear Pedro, all,
>
> Your comment here is interesting: "Nevertheless, in our times whatever
> wisdom might be around remains buried under growing heaps of
> specialized, mostly technological knowledge."
>
> There is a key question which arises from this: Do we think that
> wisdom is separable from the 'heaps of specialized technical
> knowledge'? Can a surgeon act wisely if they don't know how to use a
> scalpel? Is it important to know and do what we are talking about at
> some depth of experience? I suspect so.
>
> So perhaps the problem is the "burying". What/who performs the burial?
> Education must be the first culprit there - what do we do about it?
> There's nothing stopping people gaining deeper specialised knowledge
> if they are so-motivated. But there is a lot that stops us making
> connections between deep practice, thought and judgement.
>
> Wittgenstein made a similar comment in his discussion on aesthetics
> (here: Lectures and Conversations on Aesthetics, Psychology, and
> Religious Belief - Wikipedia
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectures_and_Conversations_on_Aesthetics,_Psychology,_and_Religious_Belief__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VxvqVh_7CZEQDbazwiq9Blw55q6xEAiScVbF-5oKYfpeN4UktJwu_G9ZawMDI2A_xvAxOxOooV8rGI7ucLZwi8VVnRSa$ >):
>
>
> When we make an aesthetic judgement about a thing, we do not just
> gape at it and say: "Oh! How marvellous!" We distinguish between a
> person who knows what he is talking about and a person who
> doesn't. If a person is to admire English poetry, he must know
> English. Suppose that a Russian who doesn't know English is
> overwhelmed by a sonnet admitted to be good. We would say that he
> does not know what is in it. In music this is more pronounced.
> Suppose there is a person who admires and enjoys what is admitted
> to be good but can't remember the simplest tunes, doesn't know
> when the bass comes in, etc. We say he hasn't seen what's in it.
> We use the phrase 'A man is musical' not so as to call a man
> musical if he says "Ah!" when a piece of music is played, any more
> than we call a dog musical if it wags its tail when music is played.
>
> If there is a paradigm shift that is required, it is an
> epistemological shift that is in this space.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Mark
>
> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 at 11:26, Pedro C. Marijuán
> <pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com <mailto:pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Dear Chen and FIS colleagues,
>
> Welcome to the list. Your comments on the "main body" are
> interesting. They look close to the (Taoist?) tradition of "/chi
> flow/" in the body. The interrelation between the/li /and the
> /chi/ in the organism looks quite enigmatic (say, information flow
> vs. energy flow: time ago I published about that from the point of
> view of cellular gauge symmetry). This interesting "main body"
> theme may also be connected with the discussions on
> consciousness... Nevertheless, I fail to see the relationship with
> "wisdom". Most parties in this list are discussing about wisdom
> from a "realist stance" (as something clearly delimited in the
> real world) while I adopt a "nominalist" position: it represents
> nothing but a useful artificial convention about an unassailable
> phenomenon. Nevertheless, in our times whatever wisdom might be
> around remains buried under growing heaps of specialized, mostly
> technological knowledge. Taking its evanescent presence as a
> crucial distinction between humans and the new AI systems does not
> look very "wise"... If we provide full Autonomy and maybe some
> form of embodiment (robotic?) to these systems, well, things could
> be pretty problematic, far beyond the realistic or nominalist
> stance around wisdom.
>
> Best--Pedro
>
> BY THE WAY, THERE ARE AT LEAST 6 MESSAGES BLOCKED BY THE SERVER
> DUE TO THEIR EXCESSIVE LENGTH, BEYOND THE LIMIT OF 300 K. SO
> DIFFICULT IS CLEANING THE "TAIL" OF PREVIOUS MESSAGES (OR AT LEAST
> A PART OF THEM)???? ADMIRABLE STUBBORNNESS OF SOME FIS COLLEAGUES!
> --------------------------------------------
>
> El 30/10/2023 a las 2:13, shda1 escribió:
>>
>> Dear everyone,
>>
>> Sorry! I encountered a formatting error in my reply yesterday and
>> will resend it today.
>>
>> I am delighted that everyone can discuss wisdom from artificial
>> intelligence. Here, I propose a more basic and core concept about
>> wisdom - the main body, which is the fundamental concept of wisdom.
>> The main body, also known as the main body program, is a
>> high-level program combination of energy. The the main body needs
>> to combine with the organism in order to exist and form a main
>> body existence. Main body existence is an existence with autonomy
>> and initiative, and the extension of main body is greater than
>> that of the living body. The living body is only a common type of
>> main body existence. AI has no main body, so no matter how
>> powerful it may be, it does not belong to the main body existence
>> and can only be an appendage of the living body. So, is there a
>> possibility that AI will also break through itself and gain the
>> main body? Never possible! The main body is a product of natural
>> evolution in the universe, which humans cannot manufacture and
>> can only use reasonably. Chen Wang Visiting Professor at SEGD
>> University New Civilization International Cooperation Organization
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 2023-10-29 21:39:54, ""<fis-request at listas.unizar.es> <mailto:fis-request at listas.unizar.es> wrote:
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>> >Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. PTSD: AI biases absorbed by humans?. (Plamen)
>> > 2. Re: PTSD: AI biases absorbed by humans?. (Eric Werner)
>> > 3. Re: PTSD: AI biases absorbed by humans?. (Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov)
>> >
>> >
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >Message: 1
>> >Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:26:22 +0100
>> >From: Plamen <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> <mailto:plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com>
>> >To: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es> <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>
>> >Subject: [Fis] PTSD: AI biases absorbed by humans?.
>> >Message-ID: <8BA2DCA1-27E6-4F2D-BA86-086716AA2AED at gmail.com> <mailto:8BA2DCA1-27E6-4F2D-BA86-086716AA2AED at gmail.com>
>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> >
>> >https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www-scientificamerican-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-absorb-bias-from-ai-and-keep-it-after-they-stop-using-the-algorithm/?amp=true__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SHUUOa4B0F9kxK2vjy8cLrhqjUToq5OW3Hg5CAyMsxtzWQVAGmOy6WQe2zDxR30Y8IisMW5zooatI8r__i5cvhJUWN0N$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www-scientificamerican-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-absorb-bias-from-ai-and-keep-it-after-they-stop-using-the-algorithm/?amp=true__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SHUUOa4B0F9kxK2vjy8cLrhqjUToq5OW3Hg5CAyMsxtzWQVAGmOy6WQe2zDxR30Y8IisMW5zooatI8r__i5cvhJUWN0N$>
>> >
>> >
>> >Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >
>> >------------------------------
>> >
>> >Message: 2
>> >Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 14:16:40 +0100
>> >From: Eric Werner <eric.werner at oarf.org> <mailto:eric.werner at oarf.org>
>> >To: Plamen <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> <mailto:plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com>, fis<fis at listas.unizar.es> <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>
>> >Subject: Re: [Fis] PTSD: AI biases absorbed by humans?.
>> >Message-ID: <e6736449-2532-442e-b6d9-32e19024eafc at oarf.org> <mailto:e6736449-2532-442e-b6d9-32e19024eafc at oarf.org>
>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>> >
>> >Dear Plamen,
>> >
>> >Fully agree that such systems can have bias and that this bias can
>> >infect humans. However, one person's bias is another's truth. All the
>> >experiment showed was the heritability of bias from AI system to human.?
>> >That is a problem.
>> >
>> >However, in a political setting one would have to very cautious when
>> >larger corporations and governments start to determine what is bias and
>> >what is not. '
>> >
>> >How to avoid "bias" will I think be an impossible task.
>> >
>> >Best wishes,
>> >
>> >Eric
>> >
>> >On 10/29/23 1:26 PM, Plamen wrote:
>> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www-scientificamerican-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-absorb-bias-from-ai-and-keep-it-after-they-stop-using-the-algorithm/?amp=true__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SHUUOa4B0F9kxK2vjy8cLrhqjUToq5OW3Hg5CAyMsxtzWQVAGmOy6WQe2zDxR30Y8IisMW5zooatI8r__i5cvhJUWN0N$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www-scientificamerican-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-absorb-bias-from-ai-and-keep-it-after-they-stop-using-the-algorithm/?amp=true__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SHUUOa4B0F9kxK2vjy8cLrhqjUToq5OW3Hg5CAyMsxtzWQVAGmOy6WQe2zDxR30Y8IisMW5zooatI8r__i5cvhJUWN0N$>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
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