[Fis] Information, misinformation, disinformation

[Francesco Rizzo]

Dear All,
both in existence and in knowledge everything is subjectively normal:
probable vulnerability or vulnerable probability is the new normal.
Francis

Cari Tutti,
sia nell'esistenza sia nella conoscenza tutto è normale dal punto di vista
soggettivo:la vulnerabilità probabile o la probabilità vulnerabile è la
nuova normalità.
Francesco

Il giorno lun 5 giu 2023 alle ore 18:51 Louis Kauffman <loukau en gmail.com>
ha scritto:

> Look here. There is no way to do it in general.
> In specific cases you use what you can find out.
> Mr. T was lying about the election.
> You want the proof all out in nice legal work.
> Good luck to you.
>
> On Jun 5, 2023, at 8:56 AM, konstantin lidin <lidinkl en hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Luis, could you give a concrete example of how you propose to
> distinguish truth from lies when it comes to political issues?
> If we identify truth with consistency, then the most truthful statements
> are those of a religious type. The statement "All is the will of Allah"
> cannot be verified in principle, it does not contradict anything and,
> therefore, is absolutely true. The utterance has exactly the same
> structure: "Communists and Russia are to blame for all modern problems."
> What can we do with this in a post-truth situation, when the main flow of
> information is blurred statements, saturated with emotions, but devoid of
> logical structure?
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Louis Kauffman <loukau en gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 05 June 2023 15:47
> *To:* konstantin lidin <lidinkl en hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* Michel Petitjean <petitjean.chiral en gmail.com>; fis <
> fis en listas.unizar.es>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Information, misinformation, disinformation
>
> In scientific communities, evolving criteria for acceptable information
> goes on all the time and is
> a marker for freedom of thought, not for censorship. At the same time, it
> is the case that such communities often are caught in orthodoxies and fixed
> viewpoints that require certain generations to simply die out to be
> rectified. We make progress in scientific knowing by having evolving
> criteria for
> acceptable results. Note also that the criterion for acceptability is the
> independent production of those results by other researchers. Under such
> conditions this is the
> opposite of censorship. Alas, sociological and political results are much
> harder to reproduce. But it is nevertheless possible to discriminate between
> lies, fabrications and actual accounts of events. I say possible and to
> the extent that people are educated to think for themselves and to think
> critically, it becomes more
> possible.
>
>
> On Jun 5, 2023, at 2:24 AM, konstantin lidin <lidinkl en hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> the concept of disinformation is completely subjective.
> According to Shannon, lies (noise) this is irrelevant information.
> Relevance is compliance with the goals of the participants in the
> information transfer process. Any message is relevant (truthful) if it
> corresponds to the picture of the world of the sender and recipient of the
> message. For example, a message about the existence of demons is truthful
> information for a believer in demons, but the same message is
> disinformation for an atheist.
> Declarations on combating disinformation are a reason for the introduction
> of stricter censorship by EU and EC officials. Obviously, if this project
> is implemented, special sensors will be assigned that will determine the
> level of reliability of messages and punish messages that contradict the
> official picture of the world from EC officials
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Fis <fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Michel Petitjean <
> petitjean.chiral en gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 05 June 2023 02:58
> *To:* fis <fis en listas.unizar.es>
> *Subject:* [Fis] Information, misinformation, disinformation
>
> Dear All,
> Europa declares that fighting disinformation will be legal obligation.
> Let me ask some questions:
> - Who is able to recognize misinformation vs. information?
> - When misinformation is recognized, who is able to establish an
> intentional character, so that it is disinformation indeed?
> - Who will be in charge to do the tasks above?
> Well, in some simple cases disinformation can be recognized.
> Just curious, would we all agree when such of these cases is stated to
> have occurred?
> Better would be to massively educate people rather than to censor.
> All my best.
> Michel. retired scientist.
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TJwbbe1lwYIxShwAfVBumCbM_Z8dLAOsPYouKKMFgAbgRlJOO-Hrq6KGYRxM2jIQ9ODmmYfdvxs8TQ6e1sxrhVXvMx3y$
>
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