[Fis] Information, misinformation, disinformation

[Louis Kauffman]

Look here. There is no way to do it in general.
In specific cases you use what you can find out.
Mr. T was lying about the election.
You want the proof all out in nice legal work.
Good luck to you.

> On Jun 5, 2023, at 8:56 AM, konstantin lidin <lidinkl at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Luis, could you give a concrete example of how you propose to distinguish truth from lies when it comes to political issues?
> If we identify truth with consistency, then the most truthful statements are those of a religious type. The statement "All is the will of Allah" cannot be verified in principle, it does not contradict anything and, therefore, is absolutely true. The utterance has exactly the same structure: "Communists and Russia are to blame for all modern problems."
> What can we do with this in a post-truth situation, when the main flow of information is blurred statements, saturated with emotions, but devoid of logical structure?
> From: Louis Kauffman <loukau at gmail.com>
> Sent: 05 June 2023 15:47
> To: konstantin lidin <lidinkl at hotmail.com>
> Cc: Michel Petitjean <petitjean.chiral at gmail.com>; fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Subject: Re: [Fis] Information, misinformation, disinformation
>  
> In scientific communities, evolving criteria for acceptable information goes on all the time and is
> a marker for freedom of thought, not for censorship. At the same time, it is the case that such communities often are caught in orthodoxies and fixed 
> viewpoints that require certain generations to simply die out to be rectified. We make progress in scientific knowing by having evolving criteria for 
> acceptable results. Note also that the criterion for acceptability is the independent production of those results by other researchers. Under such conditions this is the 
> opposite of censorship. Alas, sociological and political results are much harder to reproduce. But it is nevertheless possible to discriminate between
> lies, fabrications and actual accounts of events. I say possible and to the extent that people are educated to think for themselves and to think critically, it becomes more
> possible.
> 
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2023, at 2:24 AM, konstantin lidin <lidinkl at hotmail.com <mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> the concept of disinformation is completely subjective.
>> According to Shannon, lies (noise) this is irrelevant information. Relevance is compliance with the goals of the participants in the information transfer process. Any message is relevant (truthful) if it corresponds to the picture of the world of the sender and recipient of the message. For example, a message about the existence of demons is truthful information for a believer in demons, but the same message is disinformation for an atheist.
>> Declarations on combating disinformation are a reason for the introduction of stricter censorship by EU and EC officials. Obviously, if this project is implemented, special sensors will be assigned that will determine the level of reliability of messages and punish messages that contradict the official picture of the world from EC officials
>> From: Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es>> on behalf of Michel Petitjean <petitjean.chiral at gmail.com <mailto:petitjean.chiral at gmail.com>>
>> Sent: 05 June 2023 02:58
>> To: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>>
>> Subject: [Fis] Information, misinformation, disinformation
>>  
>> Dear All,
>> Europa declares that fighting disinformation will be legal obligation.
>> Let me ask some questions:
>> - Who is able to recognize misinformation vs. information?
>> - When misinformation is recognized, who is able to establish an
>> intentional character, so that it is disinformation indeed?
>> - Who will be in charge to do the tasks above?
>> Well, in some simple cases disinformation can be recognized.
>> Just curious, would we all agree when such of these cases is stated to
>> have occurred?
>> Better would be to massively educate people rather than to censor.
>> All my best.
>> Michel. retired scientist.
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TJwbbe1lwYIxShwAfVBumCbM_Z8dLAOsPYouKKMFgAbgRlJOO-Hrq6KGYRxM2jIQ9ODmmYfdvxs8TQ6e1sxrhVXvMx3y$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TJwbbe1lwYIxShwAfVBumCbM_Z8dLAOsPYouKKMFgAbgRlJOO-Hrq6KGYRxM2jIQ9ODmmYfdvxs8TQ6e1sxrhVXvMx3y$>
>> 
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