[Fis] THE ROOTS OF MODERN CIVILISATION--Some More Old Roots

[Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov]

Asking history of how to end crises like war:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3TcmncQd$ 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.cartercenter.org/news/documents/doc218.html__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3fz2VYpR$ 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.reuters.com/article/palestinians-israel-envoy/mccain-send-bill-clinton-to-negotiate-mideast-peace-idUKL1E8MI12I20121118__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3TA6HVLw$ 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/exclusive-fraternity__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3ZyD8jon$ 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1618615894548037634__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3aymTHAb$ 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newsweek.com/trump-says-he-could-end-russias-war-within-24-hours-negotiation-1776959__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3Vmko8pb$ 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/dealmaking-daily/dealmaking-presidents-opening-moves-nb/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3ZAO9S0Q$ 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/international-negotiation-daily/tough-negotiator-insights-on-vladimir-putin-from-former-u-s-secretaries-of-state/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3T5JMF77$ 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2023/01/18/how-to-negotiate-without-negotiating-00078268__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3ZApme3a$ 
One may also ask ChatGPT too, of course, if you trust it/Microsoft. But all
this comes before the use of formal logic.

Best,

Plamen

On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 5:49 PM Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <
plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> wrote:

> In this context, I wish we had some sort of safety and liveness boundary
> conditions of such logical systems; we have them in TL (Pnueli) and TLA
> (Lamport), and also in bivalent and multivalent (quantum) logic. I think
> that Ted has his thoughts on this regarding the consensus regarding the LHS
> and RHS of the equations. There might also be non-standard solutions, not
> necessarily such that are based on the balance and integrity of the LHS and
> RHS, or both.
>
> For instance, without paying a special tribute to Trump, if he were POTUS
> now, perhaps there might not be a war in Ukraine at all. At least he
> demonstrated that he can deal well with Kim Jong-un. On the other hand,
> even Trump could not stop unpredictable disasters like COVID-19. Changing
> the players, but not the game is also a kind of consensus, e.g. in soccer. A
> simultaneous substitution of a consensus with another for LHS and RHS can
> be also a solution, and here we come back to the Flagg Resolution.
> Everyone can learn and play a new fair game with proper liveness and
> safety conditions, even cricket. But I don't think that eating it is a
> clever move for most Europeans (EU),
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dw.com/en/eu-insects-climate-change/a-64503440__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3cJu3rDe$ .
>
> Best,
>
> Plamen
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 3:34 PM Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <
> plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear Lou et al.,
>>
>> thank you again for the interesting solution, your comments and the
>> reference papers.
>> I have some remarks regarding the Flagg Resolution below. Perhaps you can
>> comment on them.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 7:17 AM Louis Kauffman <loukau at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Plamen,
>>> In thinking about such analogies you may be interested in a method of
>>> paradox resolution that involves change in substitution properties that we
>>> call Flagg Resolution.
>>> Suppose that we have a paradoxical element @ that is regarded as its own
>>> negation: ~@= @. Then in logical discourse @ would be regarded as
>>> paradoxical not only because it can be neither True nor False, but also
>>> because it will lead to contradictions. For example if we try to keep the
>>> LEM (Law of the Excluded Middle) in the form
>>> P v ~ P = T for any P and also the usual law of repetition P v P = P,
>>> then we have
>>> T = @ v ~@  = @ v @ = @ whence T = @,
>>> but then F = ~T = ~ @ = @.
>>> So F = T and the system of logic collapses.
>>> Flagg Resolution saves this collapse by declaring that
>>>
>>> FLAGG RESOLUTION for @ = ~@:
>>> “To substitute ~@ for @ in a formula, the substitution must be performed
>>> for ALL occurrences of @ in that formula.”
>>>
>>> Thus the property @ = ~@ is only globally possible.
>>> Then we can write @ v ~@ = ~@ v ~ ~@ = ~@ v @ = @ v ~@ and no
>>> contradictions ensue.
>>>
>>
>> Attention: we have 3 steps to resolve the contradiction.
>>
>> The relation ~ @ v @ is preserved by this change in the properties of
>>> substitution for paradoxical elements.
>>>
>>>
>> This an elegant solution without doubt. Provided that there is a
>> consensus.
>> But what if  @ = ~@ and ~@ = @ are applied simultaneously (ad infinitum)
>> ?
>> Does not this different rule lead to a sequence of tautologies that
>> deliver the same contradictions in every single "frozen" iteration?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Perhaps you can see how we are attempting to use this method in the
>>> Ukraine. For every incursion by the Russian Federation, USA attempts to
>>> balance a corresponding
>>> insertion of arms into Ukraine — in the hopes of maintaining a balance
>>> of power. Can this lead to anything better than a standoff? It is at least
>>> temporarily avoiding a collapse.
>>>
>>
>> This could be a solution if both sides play the same game with the same
>> rules, like chess, also in multiple parallel suites.
>> Then either the better side is going to win the game or there is
>> parity/pat and the game ends in a draw, and yet if the same rules are
>> applied.
>> In chess both sides have the same armies in the beginning and there is
>> one who makes the first move which could be both advantage or disadvantage.
>> But what if at some point of the game the one side applies different
>> logic/rules? What if both sides begin applying different rules?
>> For instance, How many people in the West know about the 36 Chinese
>> strata-gems with all their background philosophy of virtues and relations?
>> And here we come to information and its meaning reaching both sides. This
>> can be a tough issue to resolve in a complex conflict.
>>
>> Your question about substitutions certainly makes one ask, how insertions
>>> or actions into a situation affect the balance of that situation. The point
>>> about doing correct algebra of substitutions is that one maintains the
>>> balance of the equation while changing its contents. Sometimes solutions
>>> are found in the course of such transformation.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, and sometimes not.
>> Maintaining the balance of the equation is critical. In chess, one waits
>> for the move of the other side before making their own move.
>> It is a matter of consensus/rule. The problems emerge when simultaneous
>> actions are made even if the same rule is applied on both sides of the
>> equation.
>> Then one or many buttured Schrödinger cats can jump out of the box ;-)
>> There are indeed so many options to stay out of the box.
>> I love the cartoon with the Russell Paradox!
>>
>> Warm regards,
>>
>> Plamen
>>
>> Very best,
>>> Lou K.
>>> P.S. The Flagg Resolution can be applied to the Russell Paradox in the
>>> following form. Denote set membership by Sx = “x is a member of S”. Then
>>> the Russell Set is defined by the equation Rx = ~xx  (x is in R if and only
>>> if x is not a member of x). Then the paradox arises in substituting R for
>>> x, getting RR = ~RR. Thus we can apply the Flagg Resolution to @ = RR. Note
>>> that other solutions the the Russell Paradox ALSO limit substitution. For
>>> example we could say “You are not allowed to substitute R for x in the
>>> definition of the Russell set.” This comes from the philosophy that x
>>> should only refer to entities that exist BEFORE the definition of R. Time,
>>> in the sense of constructive sequence, limits substitution to already
>>> existing entities. We find that every paradox resolution is fraught with
>>> philosophical ideas that need examination. Flagg Resolution is the deepest
>>> and simplest method of paradox resolution that I know.
>>> Just so, the irreducible events that lead to war, conflict and terrible
>>> human behaviors have in back of them complexities of assumptions about our
>>> behaviors and about what substitutions are alllowed. To find a new way to
>>> act (in the world) is to discover a new mode of substitution.
>>>
>>
>> Oh, yes. Reaching a consensus on both sides about what is allowed and
>> what not is the key. Otherwise, we will have a permanent state of war or
>> stuttering iterations. Understanding Klingon logic may give us some insight
>> perhaps.
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon_language__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3awvUdid$ 
>> Respect? Hindsight? Who knows.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just for your amusement, here is the Buttered Cat Paradox.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 19, 2023, at 6:55 PM, Plamen <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Lou,
>>>
>>> thank you for your valuable insights and motivating advice, which  I
>>> appreciate. What came promptly to my mind is a method I was pretty good at
>>> school: the simplification of algebraic expressions by (iterative)
>>> substitution of subexpressions with new variables. I do’t think it is a
>>> creative approach. It is rather an automation, engineering method that can
>>> be easily trained with some practice and applied without much thinking to
>>> deliver the desired solution within a few steps. Let’s stay with it for a
>>> moment. Substitution is foundational in many fields of mathematics. (I
>>> certainly do not associate, metaphorize or substitute “fields“ with „cotton
>>> fields“ in any way here or elsewhere, now or later.) Yet, as Heaviside put
>>> it in a more general context, to know what and where to substitute, we must
>>> have made our observations first, and then make the rules how. Maybe
>>> Inverse functions like substituting the substitution or canceling the
>>> cancellation could also have some interesting properties in social context.
>>> They are at least valid in terms of law procedures. But law can be also
>>> changed, of course. I‘ll ponder on this further. Thanks!
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Plamen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 19, 2023, at 8:45 PM, Louis Kauffman <loukau at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Dear Plamen,
>>> I know that when one reaches the limits of an ability to reason to
>>> anything but an impasse then what is indicated is a change of behaviour.
>>> It is necessary to understand that when you reach such an impasse you
>>> are in a closed system of thought and you are no longer able to see past
>>> boundaries or even to
>>> know what the boundaries are. Therefore the correct behaviour is become
>>> creative and understand that you have gone as far as you can go by reason.
>>>
>>> I know that we will be surprised by what happens, and that does not, of
>>> course, necessarily  mean pleasantly surprised.
>>>
>>> A wonderful example (in my opinion) is the lifelong behaviour of the
>>> Dalai Lama in the face of the transformation of Tibet by the Chinese.
>>> I imagine that you have  points of view on that.
>>> Very best,
>>> Lou
>>> P.S. A mathematical analogy of this is Godel’s Theorem which shows that
>>> in a closed system of (sufficiently rich mathematical) thought, governed by
>>> a fixed collection of rules, there will inevitably be results that the
>>> system of thought cannot decide, but that can be understood and decided by
>>> observers who are “outside” that system. In real life, the problem is how
>>> to get out of the box, how to get outside. The only answer is to return to
>>> creativity and understanding, and even then there is no guarantee. Godel
>>> has it easy. He starts by assuming  he is outside the box and then acts
>>> creatively in his way.
>>> Others, confronted by hard problems, do not even know they are in a box.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 18, 2023, at 4:38 AM, Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <
>>> plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Joseph, Francesco and Guy!
>>>
>>> So education with response-ability is the answer that we more or less
>>> what we all in this forum try to address the crises that humanity faces
>>> today with a sight back in the past and forth into the stars with concerns
>>> about the future of our species. Are not these changes happening at a pace
>>> so quickly now, not comparable with familiar evolutionary agents (incl.
>>> viruses and climate changes) that our bodies have overcome and adapted to
>>> successfully over generations so far? Our modern era deals with myriads of
>>> external agents simultaneously incl. EMF and insufficiently tested genetic
>>> therapy medications which directly affect our human nature that has slowly
>>> evolved over millions of years.
>>>
>>> Guy’s response which I forwarded to the FIS forum earlier makes an
>>> interesting bow and brings us back to the Bible story about the tree of
>>> knowledge with its forbidden fruits that made us recognize good and evil -
>>> the nucleus of the atom, that was called so to remain indivisible, and the
>>> nucleus of the living cell. „Don’t touch the running system,” a
>>> computer guy and a car mechanic told me a long time ago.
>>>
>>>
>>> Who knows how many civilizations before us were destroyed by their
>>> curiosity? We have created many tech menaces without knowing the real
>>> hazards they hide. Now, LTE/6G wireless tech is planned for 2030 when human
>>> beings are going to become walking antennas and batteries like in the movie
>>> „The Matrix“. But we already know that radiation from 3G mobile phones
>>> kills stem cells in the bone marrow when carried in the pockets and
>>> generates tumors in the brain when talking as usual. Why do we do that? Why
>>> did we get used to technology that is not safe (enough)? It is human nature
>>> to be be curious and adventurous. What if this disappears?
>>>
>>>
>>> Early this morning two thoughts popped up in my mind. Who makes this
>>> happen? You might have experienced this phenomenon earlier. Suddenly, a
>>> stream of clear messages pours into your conscious mind. Did anybody open a
>>> channel? I don’t know. I woke up and began pondering on them.
>>>
>>>
>>> The first thought was about the Book of John/Revelation which tells us
>>> how the journey ends. This could be a bifurcation point where we could
>>> deepen the discussion about whole teachings as archetypes and the legacy of
>>> Christianity in the modern world. The second thought was about the possibly
>>> unnecessary worries we have with the (imposed (artificial)) crises, --
>>> “polycrises” as Klaus Schwab explains us in his stereotype prophecies from
>>> Davos, -- we try to find a way out right now. Two weeks ago, I met one of
>>> you by coincidence led by unknown forces/circumstances. This happened to be
>>> someone who has come to the same solution I had (been poured with?)
>>> probably simultaneously with me, but came much further than I in its
>>> realization, because he did not discourage himself as I did. I hope that he
>>> will present us with this idea during our discussion; he is invited to join
>>> us. We can only wait. Yet, even if this does not happen, here is the
>>> conclusion/hypothesis/lesson I draw at that moment:
>>>
>>>
>>> *Changes to remove the problems are already happening. Ideas are popping
>>> up in many minds simultaneously and solutions are on the way. Instead, we
>>> probably discuss in vain something like trying to explain QM in terms of
>>> classical mechanics. Yet, this discussion is still part of the action
>>> (potential) required to be discharged to make the necessary changes happen
>>> and everything that happened in the past in our shared universe was right
>>> and had to be so. What do you think?*
>>>
>>>
>>> What were people doing in tough times before us? They prayed alone or in
>>> groups to God, the angels, and the saints, -- not necessary in a church,
>>> but anywhere, -- and this made them confident that they will be heard and
>>> that help will come. They believed that the mere act of praying is already
>>> fighting for them and for the positive outcome of the situation. What made
>>> them trust in the power of prayer, not only in Christianity, but in
>>> indigenous cultures as well? Did someone come behind the Global
>>> Consciousness project of Roger Nelson I mentioned earlier (
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://noosphere.princeton.edu__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3dPLa7iL$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://noosphere.princeton.edu__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRL7ViB9GA$>)?
>>> It is probably not a coincidence that Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit
>>> monk and scientist like Rudjer Boskovic, also a Jesuit monk and scientist
>>> who discovered the (EM) wave theory 100+ years before Faraday and Maxwell,
>>> is the author of the Noösphere idea mentioned earlier in this forum.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://teilhard.com/2013/08/13/the-noosphere-part-i-teilhard-de-chardins-vision/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3U7qzsJf$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://teilhard.com/2013/08/13/the-noosphere-part-i-teilhard-de-chardins-vision/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRL3b6q4M_$>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.organism.earth/library/document/formation-of-the-noosphere__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3VagktnM$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.organism.earth/library/document/formation-of-the-noosphere__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRL0yNeHNG$>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-84570-4_7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3WynusyD$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-84570-4_7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRLy4GnX5N$>
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe we need this kind of unstoppable unifying curiosity, trust and
>>> love for all human beings.
>>> Here below is the kind of work we can embrace for a new beginning within
>>> this circle.
>>> This workshop invitation from Marcin Schroeder made my day early this
>>> morning, a lucky synchronicity in my view.
>>> I share it with those who might be interested to attend this event, if
>>> he has not done this already.
>>>
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>
>>>  *14**th **INTERNATIONAL WORKSHOP ON NATURAL COMPUTING at TOHOKU
>>> UNIVERSITY, SENDAI, JAPAN *
>>> *January 20-22, 2023 *
>>>
>>> *All presentations, talks, and discussions are in Room 115, Global
>>> Learning Center, Building A12 on Kawauchi Campus (North) of Tohoku
>>> University (*entrance to A12 is about 50 meters SW (up the hill) from
>>> Kawauchi Subway Station – easy-to-spot a white vending machine with the
>>> name KIRIN next to the entrance). All sessions will be accessible via ZOOM
>>> sessions. Please feel free to share the invitation link with your friends
>>> who are interested in the subject.
>>> *For those who will participate via ZOOM: *
>>> Zoom Meeting Link
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/j/93925762089?pwd=NExRSmhTR3NhQmI3L0dlOHVORlZFUT09__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3Rru8vHr$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/j/93925762089?pwd=NExRSmhTR3NhQmI3L0dlOHVORlZFUT09__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRL-UJjULi$>
>>> Meeting ID: 939 2576 2089 Passcode: 220105
>>> *PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SHARE THE PROGRAM, LINK, ETC WITH YOUR FRIENDS AND
>>> COLLEAGUES *
>>>
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Plamen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:28 AM joe.brenner at bluewin.ch <
>>> joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> To : plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com
>>>> Cc : joe.brenner at bluewin.ch, ghatchard at gmail.com, fis at listas.unizar.es,
>>>> pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com, heiko at pax-terra-musica.de,
>>>> bruno.marchal at insas.be, dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> Thank you, Plamen. The tradition in which Nagarjuna worked goes back
>>>> another 700 years or so till the time of Buddha if not earlier: real
>>>> “roots”!
>>>>
>>>>  Now, Francesco wrote that 1) “Only information measured (measurable)
>>>> in bits of entropy can be traced back to to Aristotelian-binary logic.
>>>>
>>>>  And 2) There is no information that is not understood in a
>>>> contradictory-probabilistic way. So complexity has an inherent limitation
>>>> that implies the need for selection, contingency and risk.” These
>>>> statements are necessary but for me insufficient, since the proper way in
>>>> which the need can be approached in logic, for example by the non-semantic
>>>> Lupasco system, is not spelled out.
>>>>
>>>>  Plamen asked: “But how can we achieve such a giant change in all
>>>> human thinking? Perhaps the only way to do this is genetic editing as
>>>> the transhumanists promote. But what is the price of such fast evolution
>>>> and do we want this?”
>>>>
>>>>  My answer, in agreement with Guy, is absolutely not! This would be a
>>>> step backward to a *Deus ex machina* “solution”. For me the only way
>>>> is to deepen the connection between science, in particular information and
>>>> cognitive science and a logic that expresses the core of the Eastern
>>>> insights, without the need for *any *theology.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you and best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----Original Message----
>>>> From : 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com
>>>> Date : 18/01/2023 - 07:06 (E)
>>>>
>>>> Caro Giuseppe,
>>>> solo l’informazione misurata in *bit *di entropia è riconducibile alla
>>>> logica aristotelico-binaria. Per il resto, inerente ai sistemi complessi
>>>> ineliminabili, non v’ha informazione che non venga intesa con modalità
>>>> contraddittorio-probabilistiche. Quindi la complessità presenta una *limitazione
>>>> intrinseca* che implica la necessità di selezione, *contingenza* e
>>>> rischio. In termini operativo-matematici adotto una matrice interattiva
>>>> avente una teoria economica del valore multi-fattoriale (esagonale) che
>>>> risente di un’indeterminazione simile a quella, anch’essa matriciale, di
>>>> W.K. Heisenberg. Se non ricordo male, Ti ho fatto avere *La scienza
>>>> non può non essere umana, civile, sociale, **economi(c)a**,
>>>> enigmatica, nobile e profetica* [92] assai significativa in proposito.
>>>> Inoltre, nella mail del 14.1. 2023 ho fatto intravedere come il sistema
>>>> fabbrica-mercato (azienda) sia un processo di tras-in-formazione basato
>>>> proprio sulle strutture dissipative che creano ordine (output o beni
>>>> prodotti) dal disordine (costi degli input) mediante instabilità o
>>>> fluttuazioni. Ora basta, perché sono impegnato a concludere la composizione
>>>> di un libro (per me) molto importante.
>>>> Francesco
>>>> Dear Joseph,
>>>> only information measured in bits of entropy can be traced back to
>>>> Aristotelian-binary logic. For the rest, inherent to ineliminable complex
>>>> systems, there is no information that is not understood in a
>>>> contradictory-probabilistic way. So complexity has an inherent limitation
>>>> that implies the need for selection, contingency and risk. In
>>>> operational-mathematical terms, I adopt an interactive matrix having an
>>>> economic theory of multi-factorial value (hexagonal) which suffers from an
>>>> indeterminacy similar to that, also matrix-based, of W.K. Heisenberg. If I
>>>> remember correctly, I made you have Science cannot fail to be human, civil,
>>>> social, economic, enigmatic, noble and prophetic [92] very significant in
>>>> this regard. Furthermore, in the email dated 14.1. 2023 I showed how the
>>>> factory-market system (company) is a process of trans-in-formation based
>>>> precisely on the dissipative structures that create order (output or goods
>>>> produced) from disorder (input costs) through instability or fluctuations.
>>>> That's enough, because I'm busy finishing the composition of a very
>>>> important book (for me).
>>>> Francis,
>>>>
>>>> Il giorno mar 17 gen 2023 alle ore 17:45 Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <
>>>> plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> This is a brilliant idea, Joseph!
>>>>> Thank you for reminding us of this text. Yes, of course. But how can
>>>>> we achieve such a giant change in all human thinking? One might assume that
>>>>> the Tetralemma is already embodied in someone's DNA which is a rare
>>>>> mutation. Ted told us about the different thinking patterns of native folks
>>>>> and this is all true, but these ways of thinking did not penetrate much
>>>>> into our civilized world of today. Can we expect such an enhancement within
>>>>> the shortest period of time? Perhaps the only way to do this is genetic
>>>>> editing as the transhumanists promote. But what is the price of such fast
>>>>> evolution and do we want this?
>>>>> I will have another comment on this later.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Plamen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 5:32 PM joe.brenner at bluewin.ch <
>>>>> joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Plamen, Dear Francesco and All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From a philosophical standpoint, it is possible that some of our
>>>>>> problems are due to retention of binary thinking, maintained in the form of
>>>>>> bivalent logic and dilemmas of all kinds. One way out is to move to a more
>>>>>> complex lemmic structure of thought, such as the Tetralemma of Nagarjuna,
>>>>>> recently reinterpreted by Japanese Yamauchi Tokuryu (accessible in French).
>>>>>> Does it help to talk about chicken and egg, chicken or egg, neither chicken
>>>>>> nor egg, both chicken and egg? It does not, because "chicken" and "egg" are
>>>>>> simple objects. But if you apply the principle of the Tetralemma to the
>>>>>> contradictorial properties of information, it may. *A suivre.*
>>>>>> Comments on the two thinkers mentioned would be most welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----Original Message----
>>>>>> From : plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com
>>>>>> Date : 17/01/2023 - 12:43 (E)
>>>>>> To : 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com
>>>>>> Cc : dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com, ghatchard at gmail.com,
>>>>>> heiko at pax-terra-musica.de, pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com,
>>>>>> bruno.marchal at insas.be, fis at listas.unizar.es, joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
>>>>>> Subject : Re: [Fis] THE ROOTS OF MODERN CIVILISATION--transformers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Caro Francesco, Nikita, cari tutti,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> catching on (self-)consciousness! I had great feedback on this topic
>>>>>> from Guy Hatchard in another forum last night which I forward here with his
>>>>>> permission because it makes a nice link to what we talked about before. Guy
>>>>>> is also invited to our discussion here, so you can respond to him directly.
>>>>>> Dear Guy, please use the email address  f*is at listas.unizar.es*  to
>>>>>> reach all on the FIS forum. I do hope you have filled the form on the
>>>>>> server you were sent a link to a while ago; please check your spam box. (If
>>>>>> not, please let me know.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You might like this release which seems relevant to this thread
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *The Origin of Life, Consciousness, and Gene Editing*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The general public has been educated to regard DNA as the molecule
>>>>>> which unravelled the mystery of the origin of life. When you hear that a
>>>>>> mystery is solved, there is a tendency to want to go home, put your feet
>>>>>> up, stop worrying, and start looking for something more interesting such as
>>>>>> pizza and chips or a good movie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact, the suggestion that we know how life originated is not just
>>>>>> an oversimplification, it is a completely misleading suggestion. DNA does
>>>>>> not exist as a naked molecule. It only functions within the cell. Molecular
>>>>>> mechanisms in the cell read the information in the DNA and translate this
>>>>>> into hundreds of proteins used in the body for a myriad of functions. The
>>>>>> transcription and translation of genetic information is achieved via a
>>>>>> complex information-processing system utilizing many types of nucleic acids
>>>>>> (mRNA, tRNA, and others) and many specific enzymes. These form a tightly
>>>>>> integrated system of systems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More than a hundred highly complex proteins are involved in
>>>>>> translation. The paradox therein has not escaped commentators, these
>>>>>> proteins cannot themselves be made except by DNA. The late British
>>>>>> philosopher Sir Karl Popper mused for example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *“What makes the origin of life and the genetic code a disturbing
>>>>>> riddle is this: the code cannot be translated except by certain products of
>>>>>> its own translation.”*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In simple terms, the cell presents a chicken and egg paradox. It is
>>>>>> impossible to decide which came first—proteins or DNA. Cells present a
>>>>>> complex system of multiple interdependent parts and it is therefore hard to
>>>>>> imagine how the whole system came into being. It is a self-referral system
>>>>>> which functions holistically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Self-referral systems point to fundamental principles and laws that
>>>>>> characterise the search for unified field theories of physics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let’s conceptually break down cellular functions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - DNA contains strings of information, like the software
>>>>>>    programme of a computer.
>>>>>>    - The information in the DNA is accessed by forms of RNA, aided
>>>>>>    by multiple enzymatic proteins and then conveyed to the Ribosome.
>>>>>>    - The Ribosome manufactures proteins, some of which are the same
>>>>>>    proteins which aid transcription and translation of DNA.
>>>>>>    - Crucially the whole system is integrated within the cell—it
>>>>>>    refers to itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do we know any other systems which work in an analogous self-referral
>>>>>> way? Yes we do. Our everyday process of experience in which there is an
>>>>>>  *observer*, a *process of observation*, and an *object of
>>>>>> perception* all integrated within our *consciousness*, our sense of
>>>>>> self. In this analogy:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - The DNA is like the observer—which is both a constant
>>>>>>    controlling source of information for the whole project of perception whose
>>>>>>    memory gets updated by events or experiences
>>>>>>    - The RNA is like the process of observation, it reads the DNA
>>>>>>    and it connects with and creates proteins.
>>>>>>    - The proteins are similar to the objects of our perception, they
>>>>>>    are very diversified and active like our environment, and they keep us
>>>>>>    alive.
>>>>>>    - Our abstract consciousness or sense of self and identity is a
>>>>>>    silent witness to the whole process and keeps it all together.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This three-in-one structure of consciousness is therefore a source
>>>>>> candidate for the origin of life. The more so, because one primary function
>>>>>> of our physiology as a whole seems to be to act as a platform for
>>>>>> consciousness to express itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cells divide and thereby replicate themselves. Each new human life
>>>>>> begins with a single cell which grows into a complete person through
>>>>>> replication. Imagine a machine which makes lego bricks. Lego bricks are
>>>>>> inanimate. Each new lego brick is independent of every other lego brick. It
>>>>>> takes the consciousness of a person to assemble them into something
>>>>>> meaningful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cells however are alive, as they divide and grow, each new cell is
>>>>>> connected with a whole system, each new cell is connected to the unique
>>>>>> identity of the person—their consciousness. Cells are bound together, not
>>>>>> just mechanistically, but they are part of a system that is alive in the
>>>>>> sense that a person is alive—creative, intelligent, self-aware, emotional,
>>>>>> and so on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our physiology has an extraordinary capacity to coordinate the
>>>>>> activity of trillions of diverse types of cells and structures within a
>>>>>> single whole system internally communicating while maintaining homeostasis
>>>>>> and repair. This also supports a consistent human identity which at the
>>>>>> same time communicates intelligently with other humans. This points to the
>>>>>> involvement of more universal abstract unified physical laws and also to
>>>>>> the primary role of consciousness in human life and physiology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consciousness is a very good candidate for the source of individual
>>>>>> life forms for other reasons. In the structure of natural law, more
>>>>>> fundamental explanatory principles are always more abstract. Consciousness
>>>>>> is undoubtedly the most abstract concept with which we are familiar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The qualities which regulate cellular function are also analogous to
>>>>>> the functions of consciousness in other very important ways. In the
>>>>>> cellular environment and whole system these factors are crucial:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Shape*—molecules have to fit into spaces to function and may also
>>>>>> form larger systems aided by quasi crystallization processes and molecular
>>>>>> folding. There are ‘jigsaw’ or ‘lock and key’ mechanisms whereby only
>>>>>> certain components of a molecule can bond with other molecules.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Viscosity*—the cellular system is a ‘wet’ or fluid environment
>>>>>> whose characteristics must remain optimised for smooth transport of
>>>>>> components.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Navigation*—cellular components must be able to navigate their way
>>>>>> around the cell. This is no small task, there are 42 million molecules in
>>>>>> the average cell.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Vibration*—there are vibrational modes of all molecules which are
>>>>>> modulated by their energy and the temperature of the cellular environment.
>>>>>> There are integrated energy sources in cells and feedback loops to maintain
>>>>>> this and other functions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Timing*—the sequences of events and their timing are crucial for
>>>>>> cellular function.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These processes bear some relationship with the physiology of
>>>>>> perception and decision-making. These could be the subject of future
>>>>>> discussion, but for the moment consider the complexity of the cell and its
>>>>>> dependence on its own self-referral integrated functioning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The introduction, as happens with mRNA vaccination, of foreign
>>>>>> genetically active components could and does upset this integrated balanced
>>>>>> functioning. The introduced genetic material has functions that differ from
>>>>>> expected cellular functions, it has a different shape, carries different
>>>>>> information, bonds and folds differently, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What does this mean in layman’s terms? This Christmas we had some
>>>>>> guests who used our clothes dryer. Unaware of its routine care, they failed
>>>>>> to empty the condensed water before using it, it overflowed internally and
>>>>>> the dryer stopped working. Yesterday I took it to bits, cleaned and dried
>>>>>> it out, and now it works again. Effectively I reset it to its factory
>>>>>> condition. Very often complex equipment such as computers have software
>>>>>> fixes to restore initial factory settings, which are used in case the
>>>>>> parameters or sequence of instructions have failed. However this doesn’t
>>>>>> solve all problems as every computer owner eventually finds out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cells have their own internal reset buttons. Every day hundreds of
>>>>>> thousands of repair jobs are carried out in each cell whereby the integrity
>>>>>> of DNA and a myriad of other crucial parameters are preserved. mRNA
>>>>>> vaccination actually aims to override these safety factors and retask some
>>>>>> cells to perform an entirely different function. You can imagine what can
>>>>>> go wrong. The cell may never recover its factory settings. It might, and
>>>>>> research now shows it often does, go on producing toxic spike protein and
>>>>>> sending it around the physiology for some time. We are left like a little
>>>>>> child, who having inquisitively torn off the arms of its favourite toy,
>>>>>> sits and weeps with disappointment when parental repairs are not possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having investigated and proposed an intimate connection between the
>>>>>> cell and consciousness. It appears obvious that mRNA vaccination could put
>>>>>> the integrity and stability of our consciousness, physiology, survival, and
>>>>>> even our identity at risk. Certainly we are seeing an unprecedented range
>>>>>> of adverse effects proximate to mRNA vaccination extending to neurology,
>>>>>> cancers, and cardiac effects affecting organs, and organ systems. Such
>>>>>> effects appear in some cases to be related to the dispersion of inoculated
>>>>>> foreign genetic material in physiology carrying rogue instructions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Health systems around the world are struggling to arrive at effective
>>>>>> responses to these adverse effects. A sensible diet, exercise, and rest are
>>>>>> always an aid to health conditions along with many other approaches known
>>>>>> to medicine, but the extent that these can facilitate the self repair of
>>>>>> deliberate genetic modification is unknown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because consciousness is fundamental to physiology, there are
>>>>>> reasonable grounds to suppose there are techniques of meditation,
>>>>>> technologies of consciousness, which can at least partially assist with
>>>>>> recovery from health conditions resulting from mRNA vaccination. I have
>>>>>> discussed these at length elsewhere in my book Your DNA Diet along with
>>>>>> over 800 references to research demonstrating physiological, psychological,
>>>>>> and sociological  benefits of meditation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, there is no evidence at present suggesting this or any other
>>>>>> approach will be curative for serious long term damage from genetic
>>>>>> modification. There appears, in the case of those who might be seriously
>>>>>> impacted by genetic dysfunction, to be no external reset button to rewind
>>>>>> the clock of gene editing. There are no known magic bullets. Any possible
>>>>>> efficacy concerning recovery would first have to be assessed by research.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The main point I want to make in this article is to emphasise the
>>>>>> extreme risks of genetic manipulation. Nature’s designer went to great
>>>>>> lengths to place the cell and especially the cell nucleus off limits to
>>>>>> interference and modification. It is at the core of life and its
>>>>>> perpetuation via reproduction. Nature similarly ring-fenced the nucleus of
>>>>>> the atom for very good reasons. If we were unsure in any way before the
>>>>>> pandemic about the safety of gene editing, there should be no doubt now. It
>>>>>> should be off limits. Its continued use is an unfolding catastrophe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At GLOBE.GLOBAL we are calling for Global Legislation Outlawing
>>>>>> Biotechnology Experimentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Guy Hatchard PhD
>>>>>> Website: HatchardReport.com <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://hatchardreport.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TBAtj4ji7mRo7czy_j87DhIvXPIRcF4tOPKPYNrzXzuGV8WRsyrwvNZ4igBekrx_mLv4LewbJPduebej9C1o3Zu_bmQM$ >
>>>>>> Home 094372012
>>>>>> Mob 022 636 7760
>>>>>> Skype Name: GuyHatchard
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 5:45 AM Francesco Rizzo <
>>>>>> 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>>>> both Plamen (who I hope received the email of 16.11 on January 14,
>>>>>>> 2023) and Nikita grasped the fundamental role of information of
>>>>>>> consciousness or of information consciousness that I raised in an
>>>>>>> immediate, simple and telegraphic-mathematical way, calling into question
>>>>>>> the discernment of good and evil operated by the moral conscience which is
>>>>>>> "the sanctuary where man is alone with God" (Gaudium et Spes, n, 16).
>>>>>>> All this com-proves the thinking thought of an economist who adopts
>>>>>>> the theory of value-information, which I am, and implies the application or
>>>>>>> the continuous adaptation of the change of logic or the logic of change
>>>>>>> intrinsic to the onto-epistem - concrete economic logic.
>>>>>>> Let's go on like this, helping each other, otherwise the
>>>>>>> consciousness of science or the science of consciousness derails, liquefies
>>>>>>> or vanishes. Thank you and best wishes for a good joint research.
>>>>>>> Francis.
>>>>>>> Cari colleghi,
>>>>>>> sia Plamen (che mi auguro abbia ricevuto la mail delle ore 16.11 del
>>>>>>> 14 gennaio 2023) che Nikita hanno colto il ruolo fondamentale
>>>>>>> dell’informazione della coscienza o della coscienza dell’informazione che
>>>>>>> ho sollevato in un modo immediato, semplice e telegrafico-matematico,
>>>>>>> chiamando in causa il discernimento del bene e del male operato dalla
>>>>>>> coscienza morale che è “il sacrario dove l’uomo è solo con Dio” (*Gaudium
>>>>>>> et Spes*, n, 16).
>>>>>>> Tutto ciò com-prova il pensiero pensante di un economista che adotta
>>>>>>> la teoria del valore-informazione, quale io sono, e implica l’applicazione
>>>>>>> o l’ad-attamento continuo del cambiamento della logica o della logica del
>>>>>>> cambiamento intrinseco alla onto-epistemo-logica economica concreta.
>>>>>>> Andiamo avanti cosi, autandoci reciprocamente, altrimenti la
>>>>>>> coscienza della scienza o la scienza della coscienza deraglia, si liquefà o
>>>>>>> svanisce. Grazie e auguri di un buon lavoro di comune ricerca.
>>>>>>> Francesco.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Il giorno lun 16 gen 2023 alle ore 04:15 Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <
>>>>>>> plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you so much for your reflections and opinions. Let me try
>>>>>>>> wrapping up your messages into an effort to derive some conclusions and
>>>>>>>> move to the next phase.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1.     There is view on history as a huge set of data as a
>>>>>>>> multidimensional vector space which can be analyzed for regular patterns
>>>>>>>> and anomalies in social and cultural organization in Europe during a period
>>>>>>>> of decay and crises to reverse-engineer promising paths of success that
>>>>>>>> enable society to recover and elevate on a higher level of moral, cultural,
>>>>>>>> scientific and technological organization. The Christian monastic system
>>>>>>>> was suggested as such a recovery model/motor. It not only enabled the
>>>>>>>> integration of the invading barbarian tribes into a family of nations with
>>>>>>>> common values, but also the transition of the achievements of the antiquity
>>>>>>>> (architecture, art, literature, poetry, theatre, music, law, etc.) that
>>>>>>>> were centered around celebrating deities, but then developed into what
>>>>>>>> became humanistic in later centuries. Jesus was of human origin. There is
>>>>>>>> no nation/state/civilization without a common identity in terms of
>>>>>>>> language, mora/law, spirit/traditions, values and culture.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2.     There is a scientific juxtaposition of history as a
>>>>>>>> (hierarchical) set of interacting dynamic bifurcation compositions/agents
>>>>>>>> in every process of physical organization including those of social
>>>>>>>> structures derived from the nature of the phenomenon. In the case of human
>>>>>>>> beings, these are e.g. their genes, neurons and other forms of “hardware”
>>>>>>>> with the resulting higher-level biological organization (perception,
>>>>>>>> cognition, consciousness) that determine fundamental abstractions and
>>>>>>>> notions such as those of “thingness”, “duration”, “causality”,
>>>>>>>> “equality/equivalence”, ”logic”, “belief”, “ownership”, etc. along
>>>>>>>> with their dual opposites (“good/evil”) which on their part determine
>>>>>>>> further complex derivatives (language, science, technology, moral, etc.)
>>>>>>>> and determine the course of history through interactions. The outcomes of
>>>>>>>> historic events can be traceable or stochastic depending on which
>>>>>>>> substrates are settled and which forces act upon them, incl. those of
>>>>>>>> nature itself with its own “wiring” which often remain elusive/hidden for
>>>>>>>> the human mind’s reach.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Note 1:* (group) prayer and belief is also a viable agent within
>>>>>>>> this context. Wrong/fake concepts can also systematically/stochastically
>>>>>>>> change the course of history.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Note 2:* the special role of *time* as an agency of changes which
>>>>>>>> can be regarded not only as a derivative of changes in other agents, but
>>>>>>>> also such upon itself (time/tense!)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Note 3:* the tight balance between (enforced)
>>>>>>>> state/composition/sharing of a form of organization/civilization incl. the
>>>>>>>> transition to another one in time, and Bohm’s hidden variables potential in
>>>>>>>> terms of cycles/loops of recursion which become agents as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Note 4:* Rewiring into the historical information flow is
>>>>>>>> possible incl. empiricism (Oliver Heaviside: “Mathematics is an
>>>>>>>> experimental science, and definitions do not come first, but later on.”)
>>>>>>>> and intuition, the link to the humanities and art. Medicine is supposed to
>>>>>>>> operate at this edge. The crises of integrity/credibility affect all
>>>>>>>> disciplines, however.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3.     There is also a third moral juxtaposition in the
>>>>>>>> discernment between dualities such as good/evil, order/chaos,
>>>>>>>> beautiful/ugly within the three major roots/virtues of shared/divided
>>>>>>>> reality/civilization: scientific-biological, humanistic and
>>>>>>>> technical-scientific (with some modifications). || C'è anche un terzo
>>>>>>>> accostamento morale nel discernimento tra dualità come bene/male,
>>>>>>>> ordine/caos, bello/brutto all'interno delle tre grandi radici/virtù della
>>>>>>>> realtà/civiltà condivisa/divisa: scientifica-biologica, umanistica e
>>>>>>>> tecnico-scientifica ( con alcune modifiche).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, is it possible to derive a pragmatic approach to solve our
>>>>>>>> present problems when having these 3 juxtapositions at hand? What if
>>>>>>>>  the funny, superficial view that our modern techno-emancipated
>>>>>>>> society has on the religious/philosophical controversies of the past
>>>>>>>> is at the base of our own “root” problems of today? Did science not become
>>>>>>>> a religion recently, when it comes to the public appearance of powerful and
>>>>>>>> influential people like Dr. Fauci who became famous with his motto “Follow
>>>>>>>> the science.” Is science supposed to be taken without questioning now? We
>>>>>>>> have already witnessed a redefinition of what a “vaccine” is supposed to be
>>>>>>>> in order to integrate an emergency authorized genetic therapy with quite
>>>>>>>> different outcomes according to CDC. Yet this is not an isolated case.
>>>>>>>> There is a whole history of manipulation of scientific truth to match the
>>>>>>>> financial and political interests of the powerful class and the corporate
>>>>>>>> capital. Our present era is literally shaken by biomedical fiascos
>>>>>>>> which began with the suicides of whistleblowers (thalidomide,
>>>>>>>> tobacco cancers), moved through the enforced distribution of
>>>>>>>> Methylphenidate (Ritalin), a CNS stimulation drug, on adolescents in the
>>>>>>>>  90's "decade of the brain", and ended in the current crisis of
>>>>>>>> opioid painkillers (obscene business) and the unknowns in the ongoing
>>>>>>>> COVID-19 pandemic.  At the same time, we witness the march of the
>>>>>>>> destructive woke ideologies which enforce the revision of nearly
>>>>>>>> everything, incl. history itself, initiated from the very same places that
>>>>>>>> once brought Enlightenment in Europe, the great universities, which became
>>>>>>>> incubators and laboratories of neo-barbarism and social
>>>>>>>> disintegration. How can we overcome this decay? Any ideas?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Plamen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PS. Today begins the meeting of the self-proclaimed world elite,
>>>>>>>> WEF, in Davos, CH. Do you think they are going to solve our problems?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 10:45 AM Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <
>>>>>>>> plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Caro Francesco,
>>>>>>>>> Grazie per la vostra risposta. Questa è un'osservazione molto
>>>>>>>>> interessante sulle scelte di civiltà che vorrei commentare per intero.
>>>>>>>>> Ho controllato la posta in arrivo e non sono riuscito a trovare la
>>>>>>>>> breve e-mail che mi hai inviato il 7 gennaio. Sarebbe così gentile da
>>>>>>>>> rispedircelo, per favore? Questo è successo alcune volte con altre email di
>>>>>>>>> amici con cui non sono in contatto da un po', da quando Google ha deciso di
>>>>>>>>> metterle nella cartella spam. Di solito lo controllo prima di eliminare i
>>>>>>>>> post spazzatura, ma chi lo sa? Puoi anche scrivermi direttamente a
>>>>>>>>> plamen at simeio.org. È possibile che il mailer FIS non funzioni
>>>>>>>>> correttamente. Molte cordiali grazie!
>>>>>>>>> Auguri,
>>>>>>>>> Plamen
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear Fran cis,
>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your response. This is a very interesting remark
>>>>>>>>> about the choices of civilization which I'd like to comment on in full
>>>>>>>>> length.
>>>>>>>>> I checked my incoming post and could not find the short email
>>>>>>>>> which you have sent me on January 7th. Would you be so kind as to resend
>>>>>>>>> it, please? This happened a few times with other emails from friends I have
>>>>>>>>> not been in touch with for a while, since Google decided to put them in the
>>>>>>>>> spam folder. I usually control it before deleting the junk posts, but who
>>>>>>>>> knows? You can also write to me directly to plamen at simeio.org. It
>>>>>>>>> could be the case that the FIS mailer does not work properly. Many cordial
>>>>>>>>> thanks!
>>>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>>>> Plamen
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 8:50 AM Francesco Rizzo <
>>>>>>>>> 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cari  Jerry, Joseph e Plamen,
>>>>>>>>>> Vi debbo con ritardo (perché avevo superato le tre mail
>>>>>>>>>> settimanali prescritte) due brevi risposte e l’integrazione di poche parole
>>>>>>>>>> inerenti esclusivamente alle cose di mia pertinenza o conoscenza e relative
>>>>>>>>>> a quanto ho scritto il Il 3 gennaio 2023, alle 22:59 e il 7
>>>>>>>>>> gennaio 2023 alle ore 18.18.
>>>>>>>>>> - Jerry tu, fra l’altro, concludi il tuo ragionamento così: «Non
>>>>>>>>>> capisco il ragionamento di Prigogine che viene citato circa le"strutture
>>>>>>>>>> dissipative" di Ilya Prigogine che creano ordine (neg-entropia) dal
>>>>>>>>>> disordine (entropia) attraverso fluttuazioni o instabilità. COME
>>>>>>>>>> “attraverso fluttuazioni o instabilità” è correlato al concetto di
>>>>>>>>>> spontaneità. Ad esempio, in che modo il concetto di fluttuazioni si collega
>>>>>>>>>> alla vecchia economia e quali concetti aggiuntivi collegano le fluttuazioni
>>>>>>>>>> alla “ Nuova economia”?».
>>>>>>>>>> Per rispondere a queste domande ci vorrebbero molte pagine che
>>>>>>>>>> non mi sono consentite. Quindi mi limito a ricordarTi quel che scrive I.
>>>>>>>>>> Prigogine ne *La Nuova Alleanza* (PBE, Torino, 1993):
>>>>>>>>>> Capitolo quinto-I tre stadi della termodinamica- 3*. Lontani
>>>>>>>>>> dall’equilibrio. Le strutture dissipative* (…) La termodinamica
>>>>>>>>>> classica ci fornisce il concetto di “struttura di equilibrio”, come i
>>>>>>>>>> cristalli. Le cellule di Bènard sono pure esempi di strutture, ma di natura
>>>>>>>>>> assai diversa. Questa è la ragione per cui abbiamo introdotto il concetto
>>>>>>>>>> di strutture dissipative. (…) Qui la dissipazione dell’energia e della
>>>>>>>>>> materia (entropia) diventa in condizioni lontane dall’equilibrio, fonte di
>>>>>>>>>> ordine (neg-entropia). (…) Le strutture dissipative corrispondono ad una
>>>>>>>>>> forma di organizzazione super-molecolare. (…).
>>>>>>>>>> Capitolo sesto-L’ordine per fluttuazione (…). «Per dirlo in
>>>>>>>>>> termini antropomorfici: lontano dall’equilibrio la materia comincia a
>>>>>>>>>> “percepire il suo ambiente (…). Lontano dall’equilibrio le fluttuazioni ci
>>>>>>>>>> permettono di usare le differenze dell’ambiente per produrre differenti
>>>>>>>>>> strutture. Una volta di più vogliamo sottolineare l’importanza essenziale
>>>>>>>>>> delle condizioni di lontananza dall’equilibrio: “comunicazione” e
>>>>>>>>>> “percezione” sono le parole chiave del nuovo comportamento della materia
>>>>>>>>>> lontano dall’equilibrio» (pp. 148 e 170-71).
>>>>>>>>>> Aggiungo o ricordo che la comunicazione prevede la possibilità
>>>>>>>>>> che l’informazione sia talora definibile come entropia e come neg-entropia
>>>>>>>>>> (e quindi inversamente proporzionale all’entropia), ciò dipende dal fatto
>>>>>>>>>> che nel primo caso l’informazione è intesa solo come misura (in termini di
>>>>>>>>>> bit) di probabilità di un evento all’interno di un sistema-fonte
>>>>>>>>>> equiprobabile e nel secondo caso come informazione già selezionata,
>>>>>>>>>> trasmessa e ricevuta, sovrapponendo alla fonte-sistema equiprobabile un
>>>>>>>>>> s-codice che la riduce, riempiendola o svuotandola di significato semantico.
>>>>>>>>>> La vecchia economia di queste cose non s’è mai occupata, mentre
>>>>>>>>>> la mia nuova economia è disseminata in dozzine di libri ai quali non posso
>>>>>>>>>> fare altro che rinviare, con la modestia di sempre.
>>>>>>>>>> -Joseph, tu mi dici che «il quadro di Prigogine è molto
>>>>>>>>>> incompleto È ciò che accade vicino all'equilibrionel processo
>>>>>>>>>> mentale, dove i livelli energetici delle strutture sono vicini tra loro,
>>>>>>>>>> che è importante quanto dove sono separati se non di più. Quanto al
>>>>>>>>>> *cambiamento*, tutto il mio sistema logico-filosofico si
>>>>>>>>>> potrebbe chiamare *Logica del Cambiamento*».
>>>>>>>>>> Non è meglio chiamare *armonia*, quello che tu chiami
>>>>>>>>>> equilibrio? L’equilibrio è statico, senza vita, cadaverico sia in senso
>>>>>>>>>> fisico o metaforico. Difatti, quanti in economia si sono incaponiti a
>>>>>>>>>> fondare questa scienza sull’equilibrio ottimale e unico l’hanno privata di
>>>>>>>>>> qualsiasi consistenza teorica. E poi, permettimi di sottolineare anche
>>>>>>>>>> l’importanza del *cambiamento della logica* accostandolo al
>>>>>>>>>> libricino di hegel sulla Scienza della logica.
>>>>>>>>>> - Infine, Plamen in data 7 gennaio 2023 alle ore 18.18 ti ho
>>>>>>>>>> mandato una brevissima mail che si conclude così: «queste tre
>>>>>>>>>> radici, telegraficamente espresse, confluiscono nella capacità-virtù del
>>>>>>>>>> discernimento del bene e del male». Ora esprimo meno sinteticamente questa
>>>>>>>>>> conclusione: «(…) confluiscono nella capacità virtù della coscienza che
>>>>>>>>>> opera il discernimento del bene e del male scegliendo il primo
>>>>>>>>>> v’ha la con-divisione della civiltà, scegliendo il secondo v’ha la
>>>>>>>>>> divisione dell’inciviltà».
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear Jerry, Joseph and Plamen,
>>>>>>>>>> I owe you late (because I had exceeded the prescribed three
>>>>>>>>>> weekly emails) two brief replies and the addition of del male
>>>>>>>>>> scegliendo il primo v’ha la con-divisione della civiltà, scegliendo il
>>>>>>>>>> secondo v’ha la divisione dell’inciviltà».a few words relating
>>>>>>>>>> exclusively to things of my relevance or knowledge and related to what I
>>>>>>>>>> wrote on January 3, 2023, at 10:59 pm and on 7 January 2023 at 6.18 pm.
>>>>>>>>>> - Jerry you, among other things, conclude your reasoning like
>>>>>>>>>> this: «I don't understand Prigogine's reasoning that is quoted about Ilya
>>>>>>>>>> Prigogine's "dissipative structures" that create order (neg-entropy) from
>>>>>>>>>> disorder (entropy) through fluctuations or instability. HOW “through
>>>>>>>>>> fluctuations or instability” is related to the concept of spontaneity. For
>>>>>>>>>> example, how does the concept of fluctuations relate to the old economy and
>>>>>>>>>> what additional concepts relate fluctuations to the 'New Economy'?
>>>>>>>>>> To answer these questions it would take many pages that are not
>>>>>>>>>> allowed to me. So I limit myself to reminding you of what I. Prigogine
>>>>>>>>>> writes in La Nuova Alleanza (PBE, Turin, 1993): Fifth
>>>>>>>>>> chapter-The three stages of thermodynamics- 3. Far from equilibrium.
>>>>>>>>>> Dissipative structures (…) Classical thermodynamics provides us with the
>>>>>>>>>> concept of “equilibrium structure”, such as crystals. Benard's cells are
>>>>>>>>>> also examples of structures, but of a very different nature. This is the
>>>>>>>>>> reason why we have introduced the concept of dissipative structures. (…)
>>>>>>>>>> Here the dissipation of energy and matter (entropy) becomes, in conditions
>>>>>>>>>> far from equilibrium, a source of order (neg-entropy). (…) Dissipative
>>>>>>>>>> structures correspond to a form of super-molecular organization. (…).
>>>>>>>>>> Sixth chapter-Order by fluctuation (…). «To put it in
>>>>>>>>>> anthropomorphic terms: far from equilibrium, matter begins to "perceive its
>>>>>>>>>> environment (...). Far from equilibrium, fluctuations allow us to use
>>>>>>>>>> differences in the environment to produce different structures. Once again
>>>>>>>>>> we want to underline the essential importance of the conditions of distance
>>>>>>>>>> from equilibrium: "communication" and "perception" are the key words of the
>>>>>>>>>> new behavior of matter away from equilibrium» (pp. 148 and 170-71).
>>>>>>>>>> I add or recall that the communication provides for the
>>>>>>>>>> possibility that information can sometimes be defined as entropy and as
>>>>>>>>>> neg-enropy (and therefore inversely proportional to the entropy), this
>>>>>>>>>> depends on the fact that in the first case the information is understood
>>>>>>>>>> only as a measure ( in terms of bits) of the probability of an event within
>>>>>>>>>> an equiprobable source-system and in the second case as information already
>>>>>>>>>> selected, transmitted and received, superimposing an s-code on the
>>>>>>>>>> equiprobable source-system which reduces it, filling or emptying it of
>>>>>>>>>> semantic meaning.
>>>>>>>>>> The old economy never dealt with these things, while my new
>>>>>>>>>> economy is disseminated in dozens of books to which I can do nothing but
>>>>>>>>>> refer, with the usual modesty.
>>>>>>>>>> -Joseph, you tell me that«the Prigogine picture is very
>>>>>>>>>> incomplete. It is what happens near equilibrium in the mental process,
>>>>>>>>>> where the energy levels of the structures are close to each other, which is
>>>>>>>>>> as important as where they are separated if not more. As for change, my
>>>>>>>>>> entire logical-philosophical system could be called the Logic of Change».
>>>>>>>>>> Isn't it better to call harmony, what you call balance? The
>>>>>>>>>> balance is static, lifeless, cadaverous in both a physical and metaphorical
>>>>>>>>>> sense. In fact, those in economics who have made a point of founding this
>>>>>>>>>> science on the optimal and unique equilibrium have deprived it of any
>>>>>>>>>> theoretical consistency. And then, let me also underline the importance of
>>>>>>>>>> the change in logic by comparing it to Hegel's little book on the Science
>>>>>>>>>> of Logic.
>>>>>>>>>> - Finally, Plamen, on 7 January 2023 at 18.18 I sent you a very
>>>>>>>>>> short email which concludes as follows: «these three roots, expressed
>>>>>>>>>> telegraphically, converge in the capacity-virtue of discerning good and
>>>>>>>>>> evil». Now I express this conclusion less succinctly: «(…) virtues of the
>>>>>>>>>> conscience which operate the discernment of good and evil flow into the
>>>>>>>>>> capacity by choosing the first there is the sharing of civilization,
>>>>>>>>>> choosing the second there is the division of incivility ».
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to all three. A hug.
>>>>>>>>>> Francis
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Grazie a Tutti e tre. Un abbraccio.
>>>>>>>>>> Francesco
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Il giorno gio 12 gen 2023 alle ore 19:53 Marcus Abundis <
>>>>>>>>>> 55mrcs at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am reading the posts with interest, but do not have a lot to
>>>>>>>>>>>> add – but I notice . . .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From Pedro's post,
>>>>>>>>>>> >  We suffer nowadays another strong imbalance between
>>>>>>>>>>> hyper-developed
>>>>>>>>>>> > computer and AI techs (Web, social networks, robotics, etc.)
>>>>>>>>>>> and some
>>>>>>>>>>> > infra-developed, scarcely coherent scientific fields--missing
>>>>>>>>>>> a parallel
>>>>>>>>>>> > information body which could bring a new understanding and
>>>>>>>>>>> consistency.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think this is rather on point, but applying not just to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> current NY topic/discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I feel that exploring THIS area would be of particular interest
>>>>>>>>>>> and import for the current NY discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo
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>>>>>>>>>> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos
>>>>>>>>>> en el siguiente enlace:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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