[Fis] THE ROOTS OF MODERN CIVILISATION--Some More Old Roots

[Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov]

In this context, I wish we had some sort of safety and liveness boundary
conditions of such logical systems; we have them in TL (Pnueli) and TLA
(Lamport), and also in bivalent and multivalent (quantum) logic. I think
that Ted has his thoughts on this regarding the consensus regarding the LHS
and RHS of the equations. There might also be non-standard solutions, not
necessarily such that are based on the balance and integrity of the LHS and
RHS, or both.

For instance, without paying a special tribute to Trump, if he were POTUS
now, perhaps there might not be a war in Ukraine at all. At least he
demonstrated that he can deal well with Kim Jong-un. On the other hand,
even Trump could not stop unpredictable disasters like COVID-19. Changing
the players, but not the game is also a kind of consensus, e.g. in soccer. A
simultaneous substitution of a consensus with another for LHS and RHS can
be also a solution, and here we come back to the Flagg Resolution.
Everyone can learn and play a new fair game with proper liveness and safety
conditions, even cricket. But I don't think that eating it is a clever move
for most Europeans (EU),
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dw.com/en/eu-insects-climate-change/a-64503440__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XbzSfzXVutKkxtn7X8xA_8IVT4q-62epi6dIQHXWc1RlRDVfrehdnI9t8dlbLSW-HUDzNAAmyonNPkKidrkMPnozN7_Z$ .

Best,

Plamen


On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 3:34 PM Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <
plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Dear Lou et al.,
>
> thank you again for the interesting solution, your comments and the
> reference papers.
> I have some remarks regarding the Flagg Resolution below. Perhaps you can
> comment on them.
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 7:17 AM Louis Kauffman <loukau at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Plamen,
>> In thinking about such analogies you may be interested in a method of
>> paradox resolution that involves change in substitution properties that we
>> call Flagg Resolution.
>> Suppose that we have a paradoxical element @ that is regarded as its own
>> negation: ~@= @. Then in logical discourse @ would be regarded as
>> paradoxical not only because it can be neither True nor False, but also
>> because it will lead to contradictions. For example if we try to keep the
>> LEM (Law of the Excluded Middle) in the form
>> P v ~ P = T for any P and also the usual law of repetition P v P = P,
>> then we have
>> T = @ v ~@  = @ v @ = @ whence T = @,
>> but then F = ~T = ~ @ = @.
>> So F = T and the system of logic collapses.
>> Flagg Resolution saves this collapse by declaring that
>>
>> FLAGG RESOLUTION for @ = ~@:
>> “To substitute ~@ for @ in a formula, the substitution must be performed
>> for ALL occurrences of @ in that formula.”
>>
>> Thus the property @ = ~@ is only globally possible.
>> Then we can write @ v ~@ = ~@ v ~ ~@ = ~@ v @ = @ v ~@ and no
>> contradictions ensue.
>>
>
> Attention: we have 3 steps to resolve the contradiction.
>
> The relation ~ @ v @ is preserved by this change in the properties of
>> substitution for paradoxical elements.
>>
>>
> This an elegant solution without doubt. Provided that there is a
> consensus.
> But what if  @ = ~@ and ~@ = @ are applied simultaneously (ad infinitum) ?
> Does not this different rule lead to a sequence of tautologies that
> deliver the same contradictions in every single "frozen" iteration?
>
>
>
>> Perhaps you can see how we are attempting to use this method in the
>> Ukraine. For every incursion by the Russian Federation, USA attempts to
>> balance a corresponding
>> insertion of arms into Ukraine — in the hopes of maintaining a balance of
>> power. Can this lead to anything better than a standoff? It is at least
>> temporarily avoiding a collapse.
>>
>
> This could be a solution if both sides play the same game with the same
> rules, like chess, also in multiple parallel suites.
> Then either the better side is going to win the game or there is
> parity/pat and the game ends in a draw, and yet if the same rules are
> applied.
> In chess both sides have the same armies in the beginning and there is one
> who makes the first move which could be both advantage or disadvantage.
> But what if at some point of the game the one side applies different
> logic/rules? What if both sides begin applying different rules?
> For instance, How many people in the West know about the 36 Chinese
> strata-gems with all their background philosophy of virtues and relations?
> And here we come to information and its meaning reaching both sides. This
> can be a tough issue to resolve in a complex conflict.
>
> Your question about substitutions certainly makes one ask, how insertions
>> or actions into a situation affect the balance of that situation. The point
>> about doing correct algebra of substitutions is that one maintains the
>> balance of the equation while changing its contents. Sometimes solutions
>> are found in the course of such transformation.
>>
>
> Yes, and sometimes not.
> Maintaining the balance of the equation is critical. In chess, one waits
> for the move of the other side before making their own move.
> It is a matter of consensus/rule. The problems emerge when simultaneous
> actions are made even if the same rule is applied on both sides of the
> equation.
> Then one or many buttured Schrödinger cats can jump out of the box ;-)
> There are indeed so many options to stay out of the box.
> I love the cartoon with the Russell Paradox!
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Plamen
>
> Very best,
>> Lou K.
>> P.S. The Flagg Resolution can be applied to the Russell Paradox in the
>> following form. Denote set membership by Sx = “x is a member of S”. Then
>> the Russell Set is defined by the equation Rx = ~xx  (x is in R if and only
>> if x is not a member of x). Then the paradox arises in substituting R for
>> x, getting RR = ~RR. Thus we can apply the Flagg Resolution to @ = RR. Note
>> that other solutions the the Russell Paradox ALSO limit substitution. For
>> example we could say “You are not allowed to substitute R for x in the
>> definition of the Russell set.” This comes from the philosophy that x
>> should only refer to entities that exist BEFORE the definition of R. Time,
>> in the sense of constructive sequence, limits substitution to already
>> existing entities. We find that every paradox resolution is fraught with
>> philosophical ideas that need examination. Flagg Resolution is the deepest
>> and simplest method of paradox resolution that I know.
>> Just so, the irreducible events that lead to war, conflict and terrible
>> human behaviors have in back of them complexities of assumptions about our
>> behaviors and about what substitutions are alllowed. To find a new way to
>> act (in the world) is to discover a new mode of substitution.
>>
>
> Oh, yes. Reaching a consensus on both sides about what is allowed and what
> not is the key. Otherwise, we will have a permanent state of war or
> stuttering iterations. Understanding Klingon logic may give us some insight
> perhaps.
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon_language__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XbzSfzXVutKkxtn7X8xA_8IVT4q-62epi6dIQHXWc1RlRDVfrehdnI9t8dlbLSW-HUDzNAAmyonNPkKidrkMPkzqdteY$ 
> Respect? Hindsight? Who knows.
>
>>
>>
>> Just for your amusement, here is the Buttered Cat Paradox.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2023, at 6:55 PM, Plamen <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Lou,
>>
>> thank you for your valuable insights and motivating advice, which  I
>> appreciate. What came promptly to my mind is a method I was pretty good at
>> school: the simplification of algebraic expressions by (iterative)
>> substitution of subexpressions with new variables. I do’t think it is a
>> creative approach. It is rather an automation, engineering method that can
>> be easily trained with some practice and applied without much thinking to
>> deliver the desired solution within a few steps. Let’s stay with it for a
>> moment. Substitution is foundational in many fields of mathematics. (I
>> certainly do not associate, metaphorize or substitute “fields“ with „cotton
>> fields“ in any way here or elsewhere, now or later.) Yet, as Heaviside put
>> it in a more general context, to know what and where to substitute, we must
>> have made our observations first, and then make the rules how. Maybe
>> Inverse functions like substituting the substitution or canceling the
>> cancellation could also have some interesting properties in social context.
>> They are at least valid in terms of law procedures. But law can be also
>> changed, of course. I‘ll ponder on this further. Thanks!
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Plamen
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2023, at 8:45 PM, Louis Kauffman <loukau at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Dear Plamen,
>> I know that when one reaches the limits of an ability to reason to
>> anything but an impasse then what is indicated is a change of behaviour.
>> It is necessary to understand that when you reach such an impasse you are
>> in a closed system of thought and you are no longer able to see past
>> boundaries or even to
>> know what the boundaries are. Therefore the correct behaviour is become
>> creative and understand that you have gone as far as you can go by reason.
>>
>> I know that we will be surprised by what happens, and that does not, of
>> course, necessarily  mean pleasantly surprised.
>>
>> A wonderful example (in my opinion) is the lifelong behaviour of the
>> Dalai Lama in the face of the transformation of Tibet by the Chinese.
>> I imagine that you have  points of view on that.
>> Very best,
>> Lou
>> P.S. A mathematical analogy of this is Godel’s Theorem which shows that
>> in a closed system of (sufficiently rich mathematical) thought, governed by
>> a fixed collection of rules, there will inevitably be results that the
>> system of thought cannot decide, but that can be understood and decided by
>> observers who are “outside” that system. In real life, the problem is how
>> to get out of the box, how to get outside. The only answer is to return to
>> creativity and understanding, and even then there is no guarantee. Godel
>> has it easy. He starts by assuming  he is outside the box and then acts
>> creatively in his way.
>> Others, confronted by hard problems, do not even know they are in a box.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 18, 2023, at 4:38 AM, Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <
>> plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Joseph, Francesco and Guy!
>>
>> So education with response-ability is the answer that we more or less
>> what we all in this forum try to address the crises that humanity faces
>> today with a sight back in the past and forth into the stars with concerns
>> about the future of our species. Are not these changes happening at a pace
>> so quickly now, not comparable with familiar evolutionary agents (incl.
>> viruses and climate changes) that our bodies have overcome and adapted to
>> successfully over generations so far? Our modern era deals with myriads of
>> external agents simultaneously incl. EMF and insufficiently tested genetic
>> therapy medications which directly affect our human nature that has slowly
>> evolved over millions of years.
>>
>> Guy’s response which I forwarded to the FIS forum earlier makes an
>> interesting bow and brings us back to the Bible story about the tree of
>> knowledge with its forbidden fruits that made us recognize good and evil -
>> the nucleus of the atom, that was called so to remain indivisible, and the
>> nucleus of the living cell. „Don’t touch the running system,” a computer
>> guy and a car mechanic told me a long time ago.
>>
>>
>> Who knows how many civilizations before us were destroyed by their
>> curiosity? We have created many tech menaces without knowing the real
>> hazards they hide. Now, LTE/6G wireless tech is planned for 2030 when human
>> beings are going to become walking antennas and batteries like in the movie
>> „The Matrix“. But we already know that radiation from 3G mobile phones
>> kills stem cells in the bone marrow when carried in the pockets and
>> generates tumors in the brain when talking as usual. Why do we do that? Why
>> did we get used to technology that is not safe (enough)? It is human nature
>> to be be curious and adventurous. What if this disappears?
>>
>>
>> Early this morning two thoughts popped up in my mind. Who makes this
>> happen? You might have experienced this phenomenon earlier. Suddenly, a
>> stream of clear messages pours into your conscious mind. Did anybody open a
>> channel? I don’t know. I woke up and began pondering on them.
>>
>>
>> The first thought was about the Book of John/Revelation which tells us
>> how the journey ends. This could be a bifurcation point where we could
>> deepen the discussion about whole teachings as archetypes and the legacy of
>> Christianity in the modern world. The second thought was about the possibly
>> unnecessary worries we have with the (imposed (artificial)) crises, --
>> “polycrises” as Klaus Schwab explains us in his stereotype prophecies from
>> Davos, -- we try to find a way out right now. Two weeks ago, I met one of
>> you by coincidence led by unknown forces/circumstances. This happened to be
>> someone who has come to the same solution I had (been poured with?)
>> probably simultaneously with me, but came much further than I in its
>> realization, because he did not discourage himself as I did. I hope that he
>> will present us with this idea during our discussion; he is invited to join
>> us. We can only wait. Yet, even if this does not happen, here is the
>> conclusion/hypothesis/lesson I draw at that moment:
>>
>>
>> *Changes to remove the problems are already happening. Ideas are popping
>> up in many minds simultaneously and solutions are on the way. Instead, we
>> probably discuss in vain something like trying to explain QM in terms of
>> classical mechanics. Yet, this discussion is still part of the action
>> (potential) required to be discharged to make the necessary changes happen
>> and everything that happened in the past in our shared universe was right
>> and had to be so. What do you think?*
>>
>>
>> What were people doing in tough times before us? They prayed alone or in
>> groups to God, the angels, and the saints, -- not necessary in a church,
>> but anywhere, -- and this made them confident that they will be heard and
>> that help will come. They believed that the mere act of praying is already
>> fighting for them and for the positive outcome of the situation. What made
>> them trust in the power of prayer, not only in Christianity, but in
>> indigenous cultures as well? Did someone come behind the Global
>> Consciousness project of Roger Nelson I mentioned earlier (
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://noosphere.princeton.edu__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XbzSfzXVutKkxtn7X8xA_8IVT4q-62epi6dIQHXWc1RlRDVfrehdnI9t8dlbLSW-HUDzNAAmyonNPkKidrkMPutt18TM$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://noosphere.princeton.edu__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRL7ViB9GA$>)?
>> It is probably not a coincidence that Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit
>> monk and scientist like Rudjer Boskovic, also a Jesuit monk and scientist
>> who discovered the (EM) wave theory 100+ years before Faraday and Maxwell,
>> is the author of the Noösphere idea mentioned earlier in this forum.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://teilhard.com/2013/08/13/the-noosphere-part-i-teilhard-de-chardins-vision/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XbzSfzXVutKkxtn7X8xA_8IVT4q-62epi6dIQHXWc1RlRDVfrehdnI9t8dlbLSW-HUDzNAAmyonNPkKidrkMPrAcfHMW$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://teilhard.com/2013/08/13/the-noosphere-part-i-teilhard-de-chardins-vision/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRL3b6q4M_$>
>>
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.organism.earth/library/document/formation-of-the-noosphere__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XbzSfzXVutKkxtn7X8xA_8IVT4q-62epi6dIQHXWc1RlRDVfrehdnI9t8dlbLSW-HUDzNAAmyonNPkKidrkMPq60y136$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.organism.earth/library/document/formation-of-the-noosphere__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRL0yNeHNG$>
>>
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-84570-4_7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XbzSfzXVutKkxtn7X8xA_8IVT4q-62epi6dIQHXWc1RlRDVfrehdnI9t8dlbLSW-HUDzNAAmyonNPkKidrkMPjTanA4j$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-84570-4_7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRLy4GnX5N$>
>>
>>
>> Maybe we need this kind of unstoppable unifying curiosity, trust and love
>> for all human beings.
>> Here below is the kind of work we can embrace for a new beginning within
>> this circle.
>> This workshop invitation from Marcin Schroeder made my day early this
>> morning, a lucky synchronicity in my view.
>> I share it with those who might be interested to attend this event, if he
>> has not done this already.
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>  *14**th **INTERNATIONAL WORKSHOP ON NATURAL COMPUTING at TOHOKU
>> UNIVERSITY, SENDAI, JAPAN *
>> *January 20-22, 2023 *
>>
>> *All presentations, talks, and discussions are in Room 115, Global
>> Learning Center, Building A12 on Kawauchi Campus (North) of Tohoku
>> University (*entrance to A12 is about 50 meters SW (up the hill) from
>> Kawauchi Subway Station – easy-to-spot a white vending machine with the
>> name KIRIN next to the entrance). All sessions will be accessible via ZOOM
>> sessions. Please feel free to share the invitation link with your friends
>> who are interested in the subject.
>> *For those who will participate via ZOOM: *
>> Zoom Meeting Link
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/j/93925762089?pwd=NExRSmhTR3NhQmI3L0dlOHVORlZFUT09__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XbzSfzXVutKkxtn7X8xA_8IVT4q-62epi6dIQHXWc1RlRDVfrehdnI9t8dlbLSW-HUDzNAAmyonNPkKidrkMPlPAF-D1$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/j/93925762089?pwd=NExRSmhTR3NhQmI3L0dlOHVORlZFUT09__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRL-UJjULi$>
>> Meeting ID: 939 2576 2089 Passcode: 220105
>> *PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SHARE THE PROGRAM, LINK, ETC WITH YOUR FRIENDS AND
>> COLLEAGUES *
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Plamen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:28 AM joe.brenner at bluewin.ch <
>> joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> To : plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com
>>> Cc : joe.brenner at bluewin.ch, ghatchard at gmail.com, fis at listas.unizar.es,
>>> pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com, heiko at pax-terra-musica.de,
>>> bruno.marchal at insas.be, dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Thank you, Plamen. The tradition in which Nagarjuna worked goes back
>>> another 700 years or so till the time of Buddha if not earlier: real
>>> “roots”!
>>>
>>>  Now, Francesco wrote that 1) “Only information measured (measurable)
>>> in bits of entropy can be traced back to to Aristotelian-binary logic.
>>>
>>>  And 2) There is no information that is not understood in a
>>> contradictory-probabilistic way. So complexity has an inherent limitation
>>> that implies the need for selection, contingency and risk.” These
>>> statements are necessary but for me insufficient, since the proper way in
>>> which the need can be approached in logic, for example by the non-semantic
>>> Lupasco system, is not spelled out.
>>>
>>>  Plamen asked: “But how can we achieve such a giant change in all human
>>> thinking? Perhaps the only way to do this is genetic editing as the
>>> transhumanists promote. But what is the price of such fast evolution and do
>>> we want this?”
>>>
>>>  My answer, in agreement with Guy, is absolutely not! This would be a
>>> step backward to a *Deus ex machina* “solution”. For me the only way is
>>> to deepen the connection between science, in particular information and
>>> cognitive science and a logic that expresses the core of the Eastern
>>> insights, without the need for *any *theology.
>>>
>>> Thank you and best wishes,
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----Original Message----
>>> From : 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com
>>> Date : 18/01/2023 - 07:06 (E)
>>>
>>> Caro Giuseppe,
>>> solo l’informazione misurata in *bit *di entropia è riconducibile alla
>>> logica aristotelico-binaria. Per il resto, inerente ai sistemi complessi
>>> ineliminabili, non v’ha informazione che non venga intesa con modalità
>>> contraddittorio-probabilistiche. Quindi la complessità presenta una *limitazione
>>> intrinseca* che implica la necessità di selezione, *contingenza* e
>>> rischio. In termini operativo-matematici adotto una matrice interattiva
>>> avente una teoria economica del valore multi-fattoriale (esagonale) che
>>> risente di un’indeterminazione simile a quella, anch’essa matriciale, di
>>> W.K. Heisenberg. Se non ricordo male, Ti ho fatto avere *La scienza non
>>> può non essere umana, civile, sociale, **economi(c)a**, enigmatica,
>>> nobile e profetica* [92] assai significativa in proposito. Inoltre,
>>> nella mail del 14.1. 2023 ho fatto intravedere come il sistema
>>> fabbrica-mercato (azienda) sia un processo di tras-in-formazione basato
>>> proprio sulle strutture dissipative che creano ordine (output o beni
>>> prodotti) dal disordine (costi degli input) mediante instabilità o
>>> fluttuazioni. Ora basta, perché sono impegnato a concludere la composizione
>>> di un libro (per me) molto importante.
>>> Francesco
>>> Dear Joseph,
>>> only information measured in bits of entropy can be traced back to
>>> Aristotelian-binary logic. For the rest, inherent to ineliminable complex
>>> systems, there is no information that is not understood in a
>>> contradictory-probabilistic way. So complexity has an inherent limitation
>>> that implies the need for selection, contingency and risk. In
>>> operational-mathematical terms, I adopt an interactive matrix having an
>>> economic theory of multi-factorial value (hexagonal) which suffers from an
>>> indeterminacy similar to that, also matrix-based, of W.K. Heisenberg. If I
>>> remember correctly, I made you have Science cannot fail to be human, civil,
>>> social, economic, enigmatic, noble and prophetic [92] very significant in
>>> this regard. Furthermore, in the email dated 14.1. 2023 I showed how the
>>> factory-market system (company) is a process of trans-in-formation based
>>> precisely on the dissipative structures that create order (output or goods
>>> produced) from disorder (input costs) through instability or fluctuations.
>>> That's enough, because I'm busy finishing the composition of a very
>>> important book (for me).
>>> Francis,
>>>
>>> Il giorno mar 17 gen 2023 alle ore 17:45 Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <
>>> plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> This is a brilliant idea, Joseph!
>>>> Thank you for reminding us of this text. Yes, of course. But how can we
>>>> achieve such a giant change in all human thinking? One might assume that
>>>> the Tetralemma is already embodied in someone's DNA which is a rare
>>>> mutation. Ted told us about the different thinking patterns of native folks
>>>> and this is all true, but these ways of thinking did not penetrate much
>>>> into our civilized world of today. Can we expect such an enhancement within
>>>> the shortest period of time? Perhaps the only way to do this is genetic
>>>> editing as the transhumanists promote. But what is the price of such fast
>>>> evolution and do we want this?
>>>> I will have another comment on this later.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Plamen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 5:32 PM joe.brenner at bluewin.ch <
>>>> joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Plamen, Dear Francesco and All,
>>>>>
>>>>> From a philosophical standpoint, it is possible that some of our
>>>>> problems are due to retention of binary thinking, maintained in the form of
>>>>> bivalent logic and dilemmas of all kinds. One way out is to move to a more
>>>>> complex lemmic structure of thought, such as the Tetralemma of Nagarjuna,
>>>>> recently reinterpreted by Japanese Yamauchi Tokuryu (accessible in French).
>>>>> Does it help to talk about chicken and egg, chicken or egg, neither chicken
>>>>> nor egg, both chicken and egg? It does not, because "chicken" and "egg" are
>>>>> simple objects. But if you apply the principle of the Tetralemma to the
>>>>> contradictorial properties of information, it may. *A suivre.*
>>>>> Comments on the two thinkers mentioned would be most welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>> ----Original Message----
>>>>> From : plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com
>>>>> Date : 17/01/2023 - 12:43 (E)
>>>>> To : 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com
>>>>> Cc : dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com, ghatchard at gmail.com,
>>>>> heiko at pax-terra-musica.de, pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com,
>>>>> bruno.marchal at insas.be, fis at listas.unizar.es, joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
>>>>> Subject : Re: [Fis] THE ROOTS OF MODERN CIVILISATION--transformers
>>>>>
>>>>> Caro Francesco, Nikita, cari tutti,
>>>>>
>>>>> catching on (self-)consciousness! I had great feedback on this topic
>>>>> from Guy Hatchard in another forum last night which I forward here with his
>>>>> permission because it makes a nice link to what we talked about before. Guy
>>>>> is also invited to our discussion here, so you can respond to him directly.
>>>>> Dear Guy, please use the email address  f*is at listas.unizar.es*  to
>>>>> reach all on the FIS forum. I do hope you have filled the form on the
>>>>> server you were sent a link to a while ago; please check your spam box. (If
>>>>> not, please let me know.)
>>>>>
>>>>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>
>>>>> You might like this release which seems relevant to this thread
>>>>>
>>>>> *The Origin of Life, Consciousness, and Gene Editing*
>>>>>
>>>>> The general public has been educated to regard DNA as the molecule
>>>>> which unravelled the mystery of the origin of life. When you hear that a
>>>>> mystery is solved, there is a tendency to want to go home, put your feet
>>>>> up, stop worrying, and start looking for something more interesting such as
>>>>> pizza and chips or a good movie.
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, the suggestion that we know how life originated is not just
>>>>> an oversimplification, it is a completely misleading suggestion. DNA does
>>>>> not exist as a naked molecule. It only functions within the cell. Molecular
>>>>> mechanisms in the cell read the information in the DNA and translate this
>>>>> into hundreds of proteins used in the body for a myriad of functions. The
>>>>> transcription and translation of genetic information is achieved via a
>>>>> complex information-processing system utilizing many types of nucleic acids
>>>>> (mRNA, tRNA, and others) and many specific enzymes. These form a tightly
>>>>> integrated system of systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> More than a hundred highly complex proteins are involved in
>>>>> translation. The paradox therein has not escaped commentators, these
>>>>> proteins cannot themselves be made except by DNA. The late British
>>>>> philosopher Sir Karl Popper mused for example:
>>>>>
>>>>> *“What makes the origin of life and the genetic code a disturbing
>>>>> riddle is this: the code cannot be translated except by certain products of
>>>>> its own translation.”*
>>>>>
>>>>> In simple terms, the cell presents a chicken and egg paradox. It is
>>>>> impossible to decide which came first—proteins or DNA. Cells present a
>>>>> complex system of multiple interdependent parts and it is therefore hard to
>>>>> imagine how the whole system came into being. It is a self-referral system
>>>>> which functions holistically.
>>>>>
>>>>> Self-referral systems point to fundamental principles and laws that
>>>>> characterise the search for unified field theories of physics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let’s conceptually break down cellular functions:
>>>>>
>>>>>    - DNA contains strings of information, like the software programme
>>>>>    of a computer.
>>>>>    - The information in the DNA is accessed by forms of RNA, aided by
>>>>>    multiple enzymatic proteins and then conveyed to the Ribosome.
>>>>>    - The Ribosome manufactures proteins, some of which are the same
>>>>>    proteins which aid transcription and translation of DNA.
>>>>>    - Crucially the whole system is integrated within the cell—it
>>>>>    refers to itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do we know any other systems which work in an analogous self-referral
>>>>> way? Yes we do. Our everyday process of experience in which there is an
>>>>>  *observer*, a *process of observation*, and an *object of perception*
>>>>>  all integrated within our *consciousness*, our sense of self. In
>>>>> this analogy:
>>>>>
>>>>>    - The DNA is like the observer—which is both a constant
>>>>>    controlling source of information for the whole project of perception whose
>>>>>    memory gets updated by events or experiences
>>>>>    - The RNA is like the process of observation, it reads the DNA and
>>>>>    it connects with and creates proteins.
>>>>>    - The proteins are similar to the objects of our perception, they
>>>>>    are very diversified and active like our environment, and they keep us
>>>>>    alive.
>>>>>    - Our abstract consciousness or sense of self and identity is a
>>>>>    silent witness to the whole process and keeps it all together.
>>>>>
>>>>> This three-in-one structure of consciousness is therefore a source
>>>>> candidate for the origin of life. The more so, because one primary function
>>>>> of our physiology as a whole seems to be to act as a platform for
>>>>> consciousness to express itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cells divide and thereby replicate themselves. Each new human life
>>>>> begins with a single cell which grows into a complete person through
>>>>> replication. Imagine a machine which makes lego bricks. Lego bricks are
>>>>> inanimate. Each new lego brick is independent of every other lego brick. It
>>>>> takes the consciousness of a person to assemble them into something
>>>>> meaningful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cells however are alive, as they divide and grow, each new cell is
>>>>> connected with a whole system, each new cell is connected to the unique
>>>>> identity of the person—their consciousness. Cells are bound together, not
>>>>> just mechanistically, but they are part of a system that is alive in the
>>>>> sense that a person is alive—creative, intelligent, self-aware, emotional,
>>>>> and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our physiology has an extraordinary capacity to coordinate the
>>>>> activity of trillions of diverse types of cells and structures within a
>>>>> single whole system internally communicating while maintaining homeostasis
>>>>> and repair. This also supports a consistent human identity which at the
>>>>> same time communicates intelligently with other humans. This points to the
>>>>> involvement of more universal abstract unified physical laws and also to
>>>>> the primary role of consciousness in human life and physiology.
>>>>>
>>>>> Consciousness is a very good candidate for the source of individual
>>>>> life forms for other reasons. In the structure of natural law, more
>>>>> fundamental explanatory principles are always more abstract. Consciousness
>>>>> is undoubtedly the most abstract concept with which we are familiar.
>>>>>
>>>>> The qualities which regulate cellular function are also analogous to
>>>>> the functions of consciousness in other very important ways. In the
>>>>> cellular environment and whole system these factors are crucial:
>>>>>
>>>>> *Shape*—molecules have to fit into spaces to function and may also
>>>>> form larger systems aided by quasi crystallization processes and molecular
>>>>> folding. There are ‘jigsaw’ or ‘lock and key’ mechanisms whereby only
>>>>> certain components of a molecule can bond with other molecules.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Viscosity*—the cellular system is a ‘wet’ or fluid environment whose
>>>>> characteristics must remain optimised for smooth transport of components.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Navigation*—cellular components must be able to navigate their way
>>>>> around the cell. This is no small task, there are 42 million molecules in
>>>>> the average cell.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Vibration*—there are vibrational modes of all molecules which are
>>>>> modulated by their energy and the temperature of the cellular environment.
>>>>> There are integrated energy sources in cells and feedback loops to maintain
>>>>> this and other functions.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Timing*—the sequences of events and their timing are crucial for
>>>>> cellular function.
>>>>>
>>>>> These processes bear some relationship with the physiology of
>>>>> perception and decision-making. These could be the subject of future
>>>>> discussion, but for the moment consider the complexity of the cell and its
>>>>> dependence on its own self-referral integrated functioning.
>>>>>
>>>>> The introduction, as happens with mRNA vaccination, of foreign
>>>>> genetically active components could and does upset this integrated balanced
>>>>> functioning. The introduced genetic material has functions that differ from
>>>>> expected cellular functions, it has a different shape, carries different
>>>>> information, bonds and folds differently, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> What does this mean in layman’s terms? This Christmas we had some
>>>>> guests who used our clothes dryer. Unaware of its routine care, they failed
>>>>> to empty the condensed water before using it, it overflowed internally and
>>>>> the dryer stopped working. Yesterday I took it to bits, cleaned and dried
>>>>> it out, and now it works again. Effectively I reset it to its factory
>>>>> condition. Very often complex equipment such as computers have software
>>>>> fixes to restore initial factory settings, which are used in case the
>>>>> parameters or sequence of instructions have failed. However this doesn’t
>>>>> solve all problems as every computer owner eventually finds out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cells have their own internal reset buttons. Every day hundreds of
>>>>> thousands of repair jobs are carried out in each cell whereby the integrity
>>>>> of DNA and a myriad of other crucial parameters are preserved. mRNA
>>>>> vaccination actually aims to override these safety factors and retask some
>>>>> cells to perform an entirely different function. You can imagine what can
>>>>> go wrong. The cell may never recover its factory settings. It might, and
>>>>> research now shows it often does, go on producing toxic spike protein and
>>>>> sending it around the physiology for some time. We are left like a little
>>>>> child, who having inquisitively torn off the arms of its favourite toy,
>>>>> sits and weeps with disappointment when parental repairs are not possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having investigated and proposed an intimate connection between the
>>>>> cell and consciousness. It appears obvious that mRNA vaccination could put
>>>>> the integrity and stability of our consciousness, physiology, survival, and
>>>>> even our identity at risk. Certainly we are seeing an unprecedented range
>>>>> of adverse effects proximate to mRNA vaccination extending to neurology,
>>>>> cancers, and cardiac effects affecting organs, and organ systems. Such
>>>>> effects appear in some cases to be related to the dispersion of inoculated
>>>>> foreign genetic material in physiology carrying rogue instructions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Health systems around the world are struggling to arrive at effective
>>>>> responses to these adverse effects. A sensible diet, exercise, and rest are
>>>>> always an aid to health conditions along with many other approaches known
>>>>> to medicine, but the extent that these can facilitate the self repair of
>>>>> deliberate genetic modification is unknown.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because consciousness is fundamental to physiology, there are
>>>>> reasonable grounds to suppose there are techniques of meditation,
>>>>> technologies of consciousness, which can at least partially assist with
>>>>> recovery from health conditions resulting from mRNA vaccination. I have
>>>>> discussed these at length elsewhere in my book Your DNA Diet along with
>>>>> over 800 references to research demonstrating physiological, psychological,
>>>>> and sociological  benefits of meditation.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, there is no evidence at present suggesting this or any other
>>>>> approach will be curative for serious long term damage from genetic
>>>>> modification. There appears, in the case of those who might be seriously
>>>>> impacted by genetic dysfunction, to be no external reset button to rewind
>>>>> the clock of gene editing. There are no known magic bullets. Any possible
>>>>> efficacy concerning recovery would first have to be assessed by research.
>>>>>
>>>>> The main point I want to make in this article is to emphasise the
>>>>> extreme risks of genetic manipulation. Nature’s designer went to great
>>>>> lengths to place the cell and especially the cell nucleus off limits to
>>>>> interference and modification. It is at the core of life and its
>>>>> perpetuation via reproduction. Nature similarly ring-fenced the nucleus of
>>>>> the atom for very good reasons. If we were unsure in any way before the
>>>>> pandemic about the safety of gene editing, there should be no doubt now. It
>>>>> should be off limits. Its continued use is an unfolding catastrophe.
>>>>>
>>>>> At GLOBE.GLOBAL we are calling for Global Legislation Outlawing
>>>>> Biotechnology Experimentation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Guy Hatchard PhD
>>>>> Website: HatchardReport.com <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://hatchardreport.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XbzSfzXVutKkxtn7X8xA_8IVT4q-62epi6dIQHXWc1RlRDVfrehdnI9t8dlbLSW-HUDzNAAmyonNPkKidrkMPtjJLI8w$ >
>>>>> Home 094372012
>>>>> Mob 022 636 7760
>>>>> Skype Name: GuyHatchard
>>>>>
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 5:45 AM Francesco Rizzo <
>>>>> 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>>> both Plamen (who I hope received the email of 16.11 on January 14,
>>>>>> 2023) and Nikita grasped the fundamental role of information of
>>>>>> consciousness or of information consciousness that I raised in an
>>>>>> immediate, simple and telegraphic-mathematical way, calling into question
>>>>>> the discernment of good and evil operated by the moral conscience which is
>>>>>> "the sanctuary where man is alone with God" (Gaudium et Spes, n, 16).
>>>>>> All this com-proves the thinking thought of an economist who adopts
>>>>>> the theory of value-information, which I am, and implies the application or
>>>>>> the continuous adaptation of the change of logic or the logic of change
>>>>>> intrinsic to the onto-epistem - concrete economic logic.
>>>>>> Let's go on like this, helping each other, otherwise the
>>>>>> consciousness of science or the science of consciousness derails, liquefies
>>>>>> or vanishes. Thank you and best wishes for a good joint research.
>>>>>> Francis.
>>>>>> Cari colleghi,
>>>>>> sia Plamen (che mi auguro abbia ricevuto la mail delle ore 16.11 del
>>>>>> 14 gennaio 2023) che Nikita hanno colto il ruolo fondamentale
>>>>>> dell’informazione della coscienza o della coscienza dell’informazione che
>>>>>> ho sollevato in un modo immediato, semplice e telegrafico-matematico,
>>>>>> chiamando in causa il discernimento del bene e del male operato dalla
>>>>>> coscienza morale che è “il sacrario dove l’uomo è solo con Dio” (*Gaudium
>>>>>> et Spes*, n, 16).
>>>>>> Tutto ciò com-prova il pensiero pensante di un economista che adotta
>>>>>> la teoria del valore-informazione, quale io sono, e implica l’applicazione
>>>>>> o l’ad-attamento continuo del cambiamento della logica o della logica del
>>>>>> cambiamento intrinseco alla onto-epistemo-logica economica concreta.
>>>>>> Andiamo avanti cosi, autandoci reciprocamente, altrimenti la
>>>>>> coscienza della scienza o la scienza della coscienza deraglia, si liquefà o
>>>>>> svanisce. Grazie e auguri di un buon lavoro di comune ricerca.
>>>>>> Francesco.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Il giorno lun 16 gen 2023 alle ore 04:15 Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <
>>>>>> plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you so much for your reflections and opinions. Let me try
>>>>>>> wrapping up your messages into an effort to derive some conclusions and
>>>>>>> move to the next phase.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1.     There is view on history as a huge set of data as a
>>>>>>> multidimensional vector space which can be analyzed for regular patterns
>>>>>>> and anomalies in social and cultural organization in Europe during a period
>>>>>>> of decay and crises to reverse-engineer promising paths of success that
>>>>>>> enable society to recover and elevate on a higher level of moral, cultural,
>>>>>>> scientific and technological organization. The Christian monastic system
>>>>>>> was suggested as such a recovery model/motor. It not only enabled the
>>>>>>> integration of the invading barbarian tribes into a family of nations with
>>>>>>> common values, but also the transition of the achievements of the antiquity
>>>>>>> (architecture, art, literature, poetry, theatre, music, law, etc.) that
>>>>>>> were centered around celebrating deities, but then developed into what
>>>>>>> became humanistic in later centuries. Jesus was of human origin. There is
>>>>>>> no nation/state/civilization without a common identity in terms of
>>>>>>> language, mora/law, spirit/traditions, values and culture.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2.     There is a scientific juxtaposition of history as a
>>>>>>> (hierarchical) set of interacting dynamic bifurcation compositions/agents
>>>>>>> in every process of physical organization including those of social
>>>>>>> structures derived from the nature of the phenomenon. In the case of human
>>>>>>> beings, these are e.g. their genes, neurons and other forms of “hardware”
>>>>>>> with the resulting higher-level biological organization (perception,
>>>>>>> cognition, consciousness) that determine fundamental abstractions and
>>>>>>> notions such as those of “thingness”, “duration”, “causality”,
>>>>>>> “equality/equivalence”, ”logic”, “belief”, “ownership”, etc. along
>>>>>>> with their dual opposites (“good/evil”) which on their part determine
>>>>>>> further complex derivatives (language, science, technology, moral, etc.)
>>>>>>> and determine the course of history through interactions. The outcomes of
>>>>>>> historic events can be traceable or stochastic depending on which
>>>>>>> substrates are settled and which forces act upon them, incl. those of
>>>>>>> nature itself with its own “wiring” which often remain elusive/hidden for
>>>>>>> the human mind’s reach.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Note 1:* (group) prayer and belief is also a viable agent within
>>>>>>> this context. Wrong/fake concepts can also systematically/stochastically
>>>>>>> change the course of history.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Note 2:* the special role of *time* as an agency of changes which
>>>>>>> can be regarded not only as a derivative of changes in other agents, but
>>>>>>> also such upon itself (time/tense!)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Note 3:* the tight balance between (enforced)
>>>>>>> state/composition/sharing of a form of organization/civilization incl. the
>>>>>>> transition to another one in time, and Bohm’s hidden variables potential in
>>>>>>> terms of cycles/loops of recursion which become agents as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Note 4:* Rewiring into the historical information flow is possible
>>>>>>> incl. empiricism (Oliver Heaviside: “Mathematics is an experimental
>>>>>>> science, and definitions do not come first, but later on.”) and intuition,
>>>>>>> the link to the humanities and art. Medicine is supposed to operate at this
>>>>>>> edge. The crises of integrity/credibility affect all disciplines, however.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3.     There is also a third moral juxtaposition in the discernment
>>>>>>> between dualities such as good/evil, order/chaos, beautiful/ugly within the
>>>>>>> three major roots/virtues of shared/divided reality/civilization:
>>>>>>> scientific-biological, humanistic and technical-scientific (with some
>>>>>>> modifications). || C'è anche un terzo accostamento morale nel discernimento
>>>>>>> tra dualità come bene/male, ordine/caos, bello/brutto all'interno delle tre
>>>>>>> grandi radici/virtù della realtà/civiltà condivisa/divisa:
>>>>>>> scientifica-biologica, umanistica e tecnico-scientifica ( con alcune
>>>>>>> modifiche).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, is it possible to derive a pragmatic approach to solve our
>>>>>>> present problems when having these 3 juxtapositions at hand? What if
>>>>>>>  the funny, superficial view that our modern techno-emancipated
>>>>>>> society has on the religious/philosophical controversies of the past
>>>>>>> is at the base of our own “root” problems of today? Did science not become
>>>>>>> a religion recently, when it comes to the public appearance of powerful and
>>>>>>> influential people like Dr. Fauci who became famous with his motto “Follow
>>>>>>> the science.” Is science supposed to be taken without questioning now? We
>>>>>>> have already witnessed a redefinition of what a “vaccine” is supposed to be
>>>>>>> in order to integrate an emergency authorized genetic therapy with quite
>>>>>>> different outcomes according to CDC. Yet this is not an isolated case.
>>>>>>> There is a whole history of manipulation of scientific truth to match the
>>>>>>> financial and political interests of the powerful class and the corporate
>>>>>>> capital. Our present era is literally shaken by biomedical fiascos
>>>>>>> which began with the suicides of whistleblowers (thalidomide,
>>>>>>> tobacco cancers), moved through the enforced distribution of
>>>>>>> Methylphenidate (Ritalin), a CNS stimulation drug, on adolescents in the
>>>>>>>  90's "decade of the brain", and ended in the current crisis of
>>>>>>> opioid painkillers (obscene business) and the unknowns in the ongoing
>>>>>>> COVID-19 pandemic.  At the same time, we witness the march of the
>>>>>>> destructive woke ideologies which enforce the revision of nearly
>>>>>>> everything, incl. history itself, initiated from the very same places that
>>>>>>> once brought Enlightenment in Europe, the great universities, which became
>>>>>>> incubators and laboratories of neo-barbarism and social
>>>>>>> disintegration. How can we overcome this decay? Any ideas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plamen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS. Today begins the meeting of the self-proclaimed world elite,
>>>>>>> WEF, in Davos, CH. Do you think they are going to solve our problems?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 10:45 AM Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <
>>>>>>> plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Caro Francesco,
>>>>>>>> Grazie per la vostra risposta. Questa è un'osservazione molto
>>>>>>>> interessante sulle scelte di civiltà che vorrei commentare per intero.
>>>>>>>> Ho controllato la posta in arrivo e non sono riuscito a trovare la
>>>>>>>> breve e-mail che mi hai inviato il 7 gennaio. Sarebbe così gentile da
>>>>>>>> rispedircelo, per favore? Questo è successo alcune volte con altre email di
>>>>>>>> amici con cui non sono in contatto da un po', da quando Google ha deciso di
>>>>>>>> metterle nella cartella spam. Di solito lo controllo prima di eliminare i
>>>>>>>> post spazzatura, ma chi lo sa? Puoi anche scrivermi direttamente a
>>>>>>>> plamen at simeio.org. È possibile che il mailer FIS non funzioni
>>>>>>>> correttamente. Molte cordiali grazie!
>>>>>>>> Auguri,
>>>>>>>> Plamen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Fran cis,
>>>>>>>> Thank you for your response. This is a very interesting remark
>>>>>>>> about the choices of civilization which I'd like to comment on in full
>>>>>>>> length.
>>>>>>>> I checked my incoming post and could not find the short email which
>>>>>>>> you have sent me on January 7th. Would you be so kind as to resend it,
>>>>>>>> please? This happened a few times with other emails from friends I have not
>>>>>>>> been in touch with for a while, since Google decided to put them in the
>>>>>>>> spam folder. I usually control it before deleting the junk posts, but who
>>>>>>>> knows? You can also write to me directly to plamen at simeio.org. It
>>>>>>>> could be the case that the FIS mailer does not work properly. Many cordial
>>>>>>>> thanks!
>>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>>> Plamen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 8:50 AM Francesco Rizzo <
>>>>>>>> 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cari  Jerry, Joseph e Plamen,
>>>>>>>>> Vi debbo con ritardo (perché avevo superato le tre mail
>>>>>>>>> settimanali prescritte) due brevi risposte e l’integrazione di poche parole
>>>>>>>>> inerenti esclusivamente alle cose di mia pertinenza o conoscenza e relative
>>>>>>>>> a quanto ho scritto il Il 3 gennaio 2023, alle 22:59 e il 7
>>>>>>>>> gennaio 2023 alle ore 18.18.
>>>>>>>>> - Jerry tu, fra l’altro, concludi il tuo ragionamento così: «Non
>>>>>>>>> capisco il ragionamento di Prigogine che viene citato circa le"strutture
>>>>>>>>> dissipative" di Ilya Prigogine che creano ordine (neg-entropia) dal
>>>>>>>>> disordine (entropia) attraverso fluttuazioni o instabilità. COME
>>>>>>>>> “attraverso fluttuazioni o instabilità” è correlato al concetto di
>>>>>>>>> spontaneità. Ad esempio, in che modo il concetto di fluttuazioni si collega
>>>>>>>>> alla vecchia economia e quali concetti aggiuntivi collegano le fluttuazioni
>>>>>>>>> alla “ Nuova economia”?».
>>>>>>>>> Per rispondere a queste domande ci vorrebbero molte pagine che non
>>>>>>>>> mi sono consentite. Quindi mi limito a ricordarTi quel che scrive I.
>>>>>>>>> Prigogine ne *La Nuova Alleanza* (PBE, Torino, 1993):
>>>>>>>>> Capitolo quinto-I tre stadi della termodinamica- 3*. Lontani
>>>>>>>>> dall’equilibrio. Le strutture dissipative* (…) La termodinamica
>>>>>>>>> classica ci fornisce il concetto di “struttura di equilibrio”, come i
>>>>>>>>> cristalli. Le cellule di Bènard sono pure esempi di strutture, ma di natura
>>>>>>>>> assai diversa. Questa è la ragione per cui abbiamo introdotto il concetto
>>>>>>>>> di strutture dissipative. (…) Qui la dissipazione dell’energia e della
>>>>>>>>> materia (entropia) diventa in condizioni lontane dall’equilibrio, fonte di
>>>>>>>>> ordine (neg-entropia). (…) Le strutture dissipative corrispondono ad una
>>>>>>>>> forma di organizzazione super-molecolare. (…).
>>>>>>>>> Capitolo sesto-L’ordine per fluttuazione (…). «Per dirlo in
>>>>>>>>> termini antropomorfici: lontano dall’equilibrio la materia comincia a
>>>>>>>>> “percepire il suo ambiente (…). Lontano dall’equilibrio le fluttuazioni ci
>>>>>>>>> permettono di usare le differenze dell’ambiente per produrre differenti
>>>>>>>>> strutture. Una volta di più vogliamo sottolineare l’importanza essenziale
>>>>>>>>> delle condizioni di lontananza dall’equilibrio: “comunicazione” e
>>>>>>>>> “percezione” sono le parole chiave del nuovo comportamento della materia
>>>>>>>>> lontano dall’equilibrio» (pp. 148 e 170-71).
>>>>>>>>> Aggiungo o ricordo che la comunicazione prevede la possibilità che
>>>>>>>>> l’informazione sia talora definibile come entropia e come neg-entropia (e
>>>>>>>>> quindi inversamente proporzionale all’entropia), ciò dipende dal fatto che
>>>>>>>>> nel primo caso l’informazione è intesa solo come misura (in termini di bit)
>>>>>>>>> di probabilità di un evento all’interno di un sistema-fonte equiprobabile e
>>>>>>>>> nel secondo caso come informazione già selezionata, trasmessa e ricevuta,
>>>>>>>>> sovrapponendo alla fonte-sistema equiprobabile un s-codice che la riduce,
>>>>>>>>> riempiendola o svuotandola di significato semantico.
>>>>>>>>> La vecchia economia di queste cose non s’è mai occupata, mentre la
>>>>>>>>> mia nuova economia è disseminata in dozzine di libri ai quali non posso
>>>>>>>>> fare altro che rinviare, con la modestia di sempre.
>>>>>>>>> -Joseph, tu mi dici che «il quadro di Prigogine è molto incompleto È
>>>>>>>>> ciò che accade vicino all'equilibrionel processo mentale, dove i
>>>>>>>>> livelli energetici delle strutture sono vicini tra loro, che è importante
>>>>>>>>> quanto dove sono separati se non di più. Quanto al *cambiamento*,
>>>>>>>>> tutto il mio sistema logico-filosofico si potrebbe chiamare *Logica
>>>>>>>>> del Cambiamento*».
>>>>>>>>> Non è meglio chiamare *armonia*, quello che tu chiami equilibrio?
>>>>>>>>> L’equilibrio è statico, senza vita, cadaverico sia in senso fisico o
>>>>>>>>> metaforico. Difatti, quanti in economia si sono incaponiti a fondare questa
>>>>>>>>> scienza sull’equilibrio ottimale e unico l’hanno privata di qualsiasi
>>>>>>>>> consistenza teorica. E poi, permettimi di sottolineare anche l’importanza
>>>>>>>>> del *cambiamento della logica* accostandolo al libricino di hegel
>>>>>>>>> sulla Scienza della logica.
>>>>>>>>> - Infine, Plamen in data 7 gennaio 2023 alle ore 18.18 ti ho
>>>>>>>>> mandato una brevissima mail che si conclude così: «queste tre
>>>>>>>>> radici, telegraficamente espresse, confluiscono nella capacità-virtù del
>>>>>>>>> discernimento del bene e del male». Ora esprimo meno sinteticamente questa
>>>>>>>>> conclusione: «(…) confluiscono nella capacità virtù della coscienza che
>>>>>>>>> opera il discernimento del bene e del male scegliendo il primo
>>>>>>>>> v’ha la con-divisione della civiltà, scegliendo il secondo v’ha la
>>>>>>>>> divisione dell’inciviltà».
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear Jerry, Joseph and Plamen,
>>>>>>>>> I owe you late (because I had exceeded the prescribed three weekly
>>>>>>>>> emails) two brief replies and the addition of del male scegliendo
>>>>>>>>> il primo v’ha la con-divisione della civiltà, scegliendo il secondo v’ha la
>>>>>>>>> divisione dell’inciviltà».a few words relating exclusively to
>>>>>>>>> things of my relevance or knowledge and related to what I wrote on January
>>>>>>>>> 3, 2023, at 10:59 pm and on 7 January 2023 at 6.18 pm.
>>>>>>>>> - Jerry you, among other things, conclude your reasoning like
>>>>>>>>> this: «I don't understand Prigogine's reasoning that is quoted about Ilya
>>>>>>>>> Prigogine's "dissipative structures" that create order (neg-entropy) from
>>>>>>>>> disorder (entropy) through fluctuations or instability. HOW “through
>>>>>>>>> fluctuations or instability” is related to the concept of spontaneity. For
>>>>>>>>> example, how does the concept of fluctuations relate to the old economy and
>>>>>>>>> what additional concepts relate fluctuations to the 'New Economy'?
>>>>>>>>> To answer these questions it would take many pages that are not
>>>>>>>>> allowed to me. So I limit myself to reminding you of what I. Prigogine
>>>>>>>>> writes in La Nuova Alleanza (PBE, Turin, 1993): Fifth chapter-The
>>>>>>>>> three stages of thermodynamics- 3. Far from equilibrium. Dissipative
>>>>>>>>> structures (…) Classical thermodynamics provides us with the concept of
>>>>>>>>> “equilibrium structure”, such as crystals. Benard's cells are also examples
>>>>>>>>> of structures, but of a very different nature. This is the reason why we
>>>>>>>>> have introduced the concept of dissipative structures. (…) Here the
>>>>>>>>> dissipation of energy and matter (entropy) becomes, in conditions far from
>>>>>>>>> equilibrium, a source of order (neg-entropy). (…) Dissipative structures
>>>>>>>>> correspond to a form of super-molecular organization. (…).
>>>>>>>>> Sixth chapter-Order by fluctuation (…). «To put it in
>>>>>>>>> anthropomorphic terms: far from equilibrium, matter begins to "perceive its
>>>>>>>>> environment (...). Far from equilibrium, fluctuations allow us to use
>>>>>>>>> differences in the environment to produce different structures. Once again
>>>>>>>>> we want to underline the essential importance of the conditions of distance
>>>>>>>>> from equilibrium: "communication" and "perception" are the key words of the
>>>>>>>>> new behavior of matter away from equilibrium» (pp. 148 and 170-71).
>>>>>>>>> I add or recall that the communication provides for the
>>>>>>>>> possibility that information can sometimes be defined as entropy and as
>>>>>>>>> neg-enropy (and therefore inversely proportional to the entropy), this
>>>>>>>>> depends on the fact that in the first case the information is understood
>>>>>>>>> only as a measure ( in terms of bits) of the probability of an event within
>>>>>>>>> an equiprobable source-system and in the second case as information already
>>>>>>>>> selected, transmitted and received, superimposing an s-code on the
>>>>>>>>> equiprobable source-system which reduces it, filling or emptying it of
>>>>>>>>> semantic meaning.
>>>>>>>>> The old economy never dealt with these things, while my new
>>>>>>>>> economy is disseminated in dozens of books to which I can do nothing but
>>>>>>>>> refer, with the usual modesty.
>>>>>>>>> -Joseph, you tell me that«the Prigogine picture is very
>>>>>>>>> incomplete. It is what happens near equilibrium in the mental process,
>>>>>>>>> where the energy levels of the structures are close to each other, which is
>>>>>>>>> as important as where they are separated if not more. As for change, my
>>>>>>>>> entire logical-philosophical system could be called the Logic of Change».
>>>>>>>>> Isn't it better to call harmony, what you call balance? The
>>>>>>>>> balance is static, lifeless, cadaverous in both a physical and metaphorical
>>>>>>>>> sense. In fact, those in economics who have made a point of founding this
>>>>>>>>> science on the optimal and unique equilibrium have deprived it of any
>>>>>>>>> theoretical consistency. And then, let me also underline the importance of
>>>>>>>>> the change in logic by comparing it to Hegel's little book on the Science
>>>>>>>>> of Logic.
>>>>>>>>> - Finally, Plamen, on 7 January 2023 at 18.18 I sent you a very
>>>>>>>>> short email which concludes as follows: «these three roots, expressed
>>>>>>>>> telegraphically, converge in the capacity-virtue of discerning good and
>>>>>>>>> evil». Now I express this conclusion less succinctly: «(…) virtues of the
>>>>>>>>> conscience which operate the discernment of good and evil flow into the
>>>>>>>>> capacity by choosing the first there is the sharing of civilization,
>>>>>>>>> choosing the second there is the division of incivility ».
>>>>>>>>> Thanks to all three. A hug.
>>>>>>>>> Francis
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Grazie a Tutti e tre. Un abbraccio.
>>>>>>>>> Francesco
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Il giorno gio 12 gen 2023 alle ore 19:53 Marcus Abundis <
>>>>>>>>> 55mrcs at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am reading the posts with interest, but do not have a lot to
>>>>>>>>>>> add – but I notice . . .
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From Pedro's post,
>>>>>>>>>> >  We suffer nowadays another strong imbalance between
>>>>>>>>>> hyper-developed
>>>>>>>>>> > computer and AI techs (Web, social networks, robotics, etc.)
>>>>>>>>>> and some
>>>>>>>>>> > infra-developed, scarcely coherent scientific fields--missing
>>>>>>>>>> a parallel
>>>>>>>>>> > information body which could bring a new understanding and
>>>>>>>>>> consistency.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think this is rather on point, but applying not just to the
>>>>>>>>>>> current NY topic/discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I feel that exploring THIS area would be of particular interest
>>>>>>>>>> and import for the current NY discussion.
>>>>>>>>>> Marcus
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>> siguiente enlace:
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