[Fis] THE ROOTS OF MODERN CIVILISATION--Some More Old Roots
Louis Kauffman
loukau at gmail.com
Tue Jan 31 05:49:20 CET 2023
Dear Plamen,
What you are pointing out is that in certain situations we take some things as axiomatic that are not axiomatic at all, and could be changed.
Thus in present politics it seems axiomatic that US and European countries should support the war in the Ukraine by supplying arms.
Remove this axiom, and indeed the war will stop and Ukraine will be taken over.
But this particular axiom cannot be held indefinitely, and so we are in a suspended state for an unknown time.
All this should be separated from a “tribute” to a political character whose axiom is quite different. I take that axiom to be:
Sow as much confusion as possible for the sake of personal gain.
Best,
Lou
> On Jan 27, 2023, at 10:49 AM, Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In this context, I wish we had some sort of safety and liveness boundary conditions of such logical systems; we have them in TL (Pnueli) and TLA (Lamport), and also in bivalent and multivalent (quantum) logic. I think that Ted has his thoughts on this regarding the consensus regarding the LHS and RHS of the equations. There might also be non-standard solutions, not necessarily such that are based on the balance and integrity of the LHS and RHS, or both.
>
> For instance, without paying a special tribute to Trump, if he were POTUS now, perhaps there might not be a war in Ukraine at all. At least he demonstrated that he can deal well with Kim Jong-un. On the other hand, even Trump could not stop unpredictable disasters like COVID-19. Changing the players, but not the game is also a kind of consensus, e.g. in soccer. A simultaneous substitution of a consensus with another for LHS and RHS can be also a solution, and here we come back to the Flagg Resolution.
> Everyone can learn and play a new fair game with proper liveness and safety conditions, even cricket. But I don't think that eating it is a clever move for most Europeans (EU), https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dw.com/en/eu-insects-climate-change/a-64503440__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Wcfvnn91Du7BK7A9OF1PirIwcUK9CNvySV8lXpYqXv8ZP-ujDTZ_6gJa25zlaysJ9Umhu4wtf3qTLFrA$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dw.com/en/eu-insects-climate-change/a-64503440__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XbzSfzXVutKkxtn7X8xA_8IVT4q-62epi6dIQHXWc1RlRDVfrehdnI9t8dlbLSW-HUDzNAAmyonNPkKidrkMPnozN7_Z$>.
>
> Best,
>
> Plamen
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 3:34 PM Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com <mailto:plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Dear Lou et al.,
>
> thank you again for the interesting solution, your comments and the reference papers.
> I have some remarks regarding the Flagg Resolution below. Perhaps you can comment on them.
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 7:17 AM Louis Kauffman <loukau at gmail.com <mailto:loukau at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Dear Plamen,
> In thinking about such analogies you may be interested in a method of paradox resolution that involves change in substitution properties that we call Flagg Resolution.
> Suppose that we have a paradoxical element @ that is regarded as its own negation: ~@= @. Then in logical discourse @ would be regarded as paradoxical not only because it can be neither True nor False, but also because it will lead to contradictions. For example if we try to keep the LEM (Law of the Excluded Middle) in the form
> P v ~ P = T for any P and also the usual law of repetition P v P = P, then we have
> T = @ v ~@ = @ v @ = @ whence T = @,
> but then F = ~T = ~ @ = @.
> So F = T and the system of logic collapses.
> Flagg Resolution saves this collapse by declaring that
>
> FLAGG RESOLUTION for @ = ~@:
> “To substitute ~@ for @ in a formula, the substitution must be performed for ALL occurrences of @ in that formula.”
>
> Thus the property @ = ~@ is only globally possible.
> Then we can write @ v ~@ = ~@ v ~ ~@ = ~@ v @ = @ v ~@ and no contradictions ensue.
>
> Attention: we have 3 steps to resolve the contradiction.
>
> The relation ~ @ v @ is preserved by this change in the properties of substitution for paradoxical elements.
>
>
> This an elegant solution without doubt. Provided that there is a consensus.
> But what if @ = ~@ and ~@ = @ are applied simultaneously (ad infinitum) ?
> Does not this different rule lead to a sequence of tautologies that deliver the same contradictions in every single "frozen" iteration?
>
>
> Perhaps you can see how we are attempting to use this method in the Ukraine. For every incursion by the Russian Federation, USA attempts to balance a corresponding
> insertion of arms into Ukraine — in the hopes of maintaining a balance of power. Can this lead to anything better than a standoff? It is at least temporarily avoiding a collapse.
>
> This could be a solution if both sides play the same game with the same rules, like chess, also in multiple parallel suites.
> Then either the better side is going to win the game or there is parity/pat and the game ends in a draw, and yet if the same rules are applied.
> In chess both sides have the same armies in the beginning and there is one who makes the first move which could be both advantage or disadvantage.
> But what if at some point of the game the one side applies different logic/rules? What if both sides begin applying different rules?
> For instance, How many people in the West know about the 36 Chinese strata-gems with all their background philosophy of virtues and relations?
> And here we come to information and its meaning reaching both sides. This can be a tough issue to resolve in a complex conflict.
>
> Your question about substitutions certainly makes one ask, how insertions or actions into a situation affect the balance of that situation. The point about doing correct algebra of substitutions is that one maintains the balance of the equation while changing its contents. Sometimes solutions are found in the course of such transformation.
>
> Yes, and sometimes not.
> Maintaining the balance of the equation is critical. In chess, one waits for the move of the other side before making their own move.
> It is a matter of consensus/rule. The problems emerge when simultaneous actions are made even if the same rule is applied on both sides of the equation.
> Then one or many buttured Schrödinger cats can jump out of the box ;-) There are indeed so many options to stay out of the box.
> I love the cartoon with the Russell Paradox!
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Plamen
>
> Very best,
> Lou K.
> P.S. The Flagg Resolution can be applied to the Russell Paradox in the following form. Denote set membership by Sx = “x is a member of S”. Then the Russell Set is defined by the equation Rx = ~xx (x is in R if and only if x is not a member of x). Then the paradox arises in substituting R for x, getting RR = ~RR. Thus we can apply the Flagg Resolution to @ = RR. Note that other solutions the the Russell Paradox ALSO limit substitution. For example we could say “You are not allowed to substitute R for x in the
> definition of the Russell set.” This comes from the philosophy that x should only refer to entities that exist BEFORE the definition of R. Time, in the sense of constructive sequence, limits substitution to already existing entities. We find that every paradox resolution is fraught with philosophical ideas that need examination. Flagg Resolution is the deepest and simplest method of paradox resolution that I know.
> Just so, the irreducible events that lead to war, conflict and terrible human behaviors have in back of them complexities of assumptions about our behaviors and about what substitutions are alllowed. To find a new way to act (in the world) is to discover a new mode of substitution.
>
> Oh, yes. Reaching a consensus on both sides about what is allowed and what not is the key. Otherwise, we will have a permanent state of war or stuttering iterations. Understanding Klingon logic may give us some insight perhaps.
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon_language__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Wcfvnn91Du7BK7A9OF1PirIwcUK9CNvySV8lXpYqXv8ZP-ujDTZ_6gJa25zlaysJ9Umhu4wtfxPQCd18$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon_language__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XbzSfzXVutKkxtn7X8xA_8IVT4q-62epi6dIQHXWc1RlRDVfrehdnI9t8dlbLSW-HUDzNAAmyonNPkKidrkMPkzqdteY$>
> Respect? Hindsight? Who knows.
>
>
> Just for your amusement, here is the Buttered Cat Paradox.
>
>
>> On Jan 19, 2023, at 6:55 PM, Plamen <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com <mailto:plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Lou,
>>
>> thank you for your valuable insights and motivating advice, which I appreciate. What came promptly to my mind is a method I was pretty good at school: the simplification of algebraic expressions by (iterative) substitution of subexpressions with new variables. I do’t think it is a creative approach. It is rather an automation, engineering method that can be easily trained with some practice and applied without much thinking to deliver the desired solution within a few steps. Let’s stay with it for a moment. Substitution is foundational in many fields of mathematics. (I certainly do not associate, metaphorize or substitute “fields“ with „cotton fields“ in any way here or elsewhere, now or later.) Yet, as Heaviside put it in a more general context, to know what and where to substitute, we must have made our observations first, and then make the rules how. Maybe Inverse functions like substituting the substitution or canceling the cancellation could also have some interesting properties in social context. They are at least valid in terms of law procedures. But law can be also changed, of course. I‘ll ponder on this further. Thanks!
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Plamen
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 19, 2023, at 8:45 PM, Louis Kauffman <loukau at gmail.com <mailto:loukau at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Plamen,
>>> I know that when one reaches the limits of an ability to reason to anything but an impasse then what is indicated is a change of behaviour.
>>> It is necessary to understand that when you reach such an impasse you are in a closed system of thought and you are no longer able to see past boundaries or even to
>>> know what the boundaries are. Therefore the correct behaviour is become creative and understand that you have gone as far as you can go by reason.
>>>
>>> I know that we will be surprised by what happens, and that does not, of course, necessarily mean pleasantly surprised.
>>>
>>> A wonderful example (in my opinion) is the lifelong behaviour of the Dalai Lama in the face of the transformation of Tibet by the Chinese.
>>> I imagine that you have points of view on that.
>>> Very best,
>>> Lou
>>> P.S. A mathematical analogy of this is Godel’s Theorem which shows that in a closed system of (sufficiently rich mathematical) thought, governed by a fixed collection of rules, there will inevitably be results that the system of thought cannot decide, but that can be understood and decided by observers who are “outside” that system. In real life, the problem is how to get out of the box, how to get outside. The only answer is to return to creativity and understanding, and even then there is no guarantee. Godel has it easy. He starts by assuming he is outside the box and then acts creatively in his way.
>>> Others, confronted by hard problems, do not even know they are in a box.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 18, 2023, at 4:38 AM, Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com <mailto:plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thank you Joseph, Francesco and Guy!
>>>>
>>>> So education with response-ability is the answer that we more or less what we all in this forum try to address the crises that humanity faces today with a sight back in the past and forth into the stars with concerns about the future of our species. Are not these changes happening at a pace so quickly now, not comparable with familiar evolutionary agents (incl. viruses and climate changes) that our bodies have overcome and adapted to successfully over generations so far? Our modern era deals with myriads of external agents simultaneously incl. EMF and insufficiently tested genetic therapy medications which directly affect our human nature that has slowly evolved over millions of years.
>>>>
>>>> Guy’s response which I forwarded to the FIS forum earlier makes an interesting bow and brings us back to the Bible story about the tree of knowledge with its forbidden fruits that made us recognize good and evil - the nucleus of the atom, that was called so to remain indivisible, and the nucleus of the living cell. „Don’t touch the running system,” a computer guy and a car mechanic told me a long time ago.
>>>>
>>>> Who knows how many civilizations before us were destroyed by their curiosity? We have created many tech menaces without knowing the real hazards they hide. Now, LTE/6G wireless tech is planned for 2030 when human beings are going to become walking antennas and batteries like in the movie „The Matrix“. But we already know that radiation from 3G mobile phones kills stem cells in the bone marrow when carried in the pockets and generates tumors in the brain when talking as usual. Why do we do that? Why did we get used to technology that is not safe (enough)? It is human nature to be be curious and adventurous. What if this disappears?
>>>>
>>>> Early this morning two thoughts popped up in my mind. Who makes this happen? You might have experienced this phenomenon earlier. Suddenly, a stream of clear messages pours into your conscious mind. Did anybody open a channel? I don’t know. I woke up and began pondering on them.
>>>>
>>>> The first thought was about the Book of John/Revelation which tells us how the journey ends. This could be a bifurcation point where we could deepen the discussion about whole teachings as archetypes and the legacy of Christianity in the modern world. The second thought was about the possibly unnecessary worries we have with the (imposed (artificial)) crises, -- “polycrises” as Klaus Schwab explains us in his stereotype prophecies from Davos, -- we try to find a way out right now. Two weeks ago, I met one of you by coincidence led by unknown forces/circumstances. This happened to be someone who has come to the same solution I had (been poured with?) probably simultaneously with me, but came much further than I in its realization, because he did not discourage himself as I did. I hope that he will present us with this idea during our discussion; he is invited to join us. We can only wait. Yet, even if this does not happen, here is the conclusion/hypothesis/lesson I draw at that moment:
>>>>
>>>> Changes to remove the problems are already happening. Ideas are popping up in many minds simultaneously and solutions are on the way. Instead, we probably discuss in vain something like trying to explain QM in terms of classical mechanics. Yet, this discussion is still part of the action (potential) required to be discharged to make the necessary changes happen and everything that happened in the past in our shared universe was right and had to be so. What do you think?
>>>>
>>>> What were people doing in tough times before us? They prayed alone or in groups to God, the angels, and the saints, -- not necessary in a church, but anywhere, -- and this made them confident that they will be heard and that help will come. They believed that the mere act of praying is already fighting for them and for the positive outcome of the situation. What made them trust in the power of prayer, not only in Christianity, but in indigenous cultures as well? Did someone come behind the Global Consciousness project of Roger Nelson I mentioned earlier (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://noosphere.princeton.edu__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Wcfvnn91Du7BK7A9OF1PirIwcUK9CNvySV8lXpYqXv8ZP-ujDTZ_6gJa25zlaysJ9Umhu4wtf3IBozvy$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://noosphere.princeton.edu__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRL7ViB9GA$>)? It is probably not a coincidence that Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit monk and scientist like Rudjer Boskovic, also a Jesuit monk and scientist who discovered the (EM) wave theory 100+ years before Faraday and Maxwell, is the author of the Noösphere idea mentioned earlier in this forum.
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://teilhard.com/2013/08/13/the-noosphere-part-i-teilhard-de-chardins-vision/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Wcfvnn91Du7BK7A9OF1PirIwcUK9CNvySV8lXpYqXv8ZP-ujDTZ_6gJa25zlaysJ9Umhu4wtf0aXd-ih$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://teilhard.com/2013/08/13/the-noosphere-part-i-teilhard-de-chardins-vision/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRL3b6q4M_$>
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.organism.earth/library/document/formation-of-the-noosphere__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Wcfvnn91Du7BK7A9OF1PirIwcUK9CNvySV8lXpYqXv8ZP-ujDTZ_6gJa25zlaysJ9Umhu4wtf_qXV3_Q$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.organism.earth/library/document/formation-of-the-noosphere__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRL0yNeHNG$>
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-84570-4_7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Wcfvnn91Du7BK7A9OF1PirIwcUK9CNvySV8lXpYqXv8ZP-ujDTZ_6gJa25zlaysJ9Umhu4wtf8NHcAGU$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-84570-4_7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRLy4GnX5N$>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe we need this kind of unstoppable unifying curiosity, trust and love for all human beings.
>>>> Here below is the kind of work we can embrace for a new beginning within this circle.
>>>> This workshop invitation from Marcin Schroeder made my day early this morning, a lucky synchronicity in my view.
>>>> I share it with those who might be interested to attend this event, if he has not done this already.
>>>>
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++ <>
>>>>
>>>> 14th INTERNATIONAL WORKSHOP ON NATURAL COMPUTING at TOHOKU UNIVERSITY, SENDAI, JAPAN
>>>> January 20-22, 2023
>>>>
>>>> All presentations, talks, and discussions are in Room 115, Global Learning Center, Building A12 on Kawauchi Campus (North) of Tohoku University (entrance to A12 is about 50 meters SW (up the hill) from Kawauchi Subway Station – easy-to-spot a white vending machine with the name KIRIN next to the entrance). All sessions will be accessible via ZOOM sessions. Please feel free to share the invitation link with your friends who are interested in the subject.
>>>> For those who will participate via ZOOM:
>>>> Zoom Meeting Link https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/j/93925762089?pwd=NExRSmhTR3NhQmI3L0dlOHVORlZFUT09__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Wcfvnn91Du7BK7A9OF1PirIwcUK9CNvySV8lXpYqXv8ZP-ujDTZ_6gJa25zlaysJ9Umhu4wtf8rKNdhb$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/j/93925762089?pwd=NExRSmhTR3NhQmI3L0dlOHVORlZFUT09__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VrVwojXhrkVLurnk4xx3znQLOc_BlOgEd8SGz1Km3kSUNg6Lt_ARbmDrZS93YY3DJVeyGdr3TGnUogRRbLMRL-UJjULi$> Meeting ID: 939 2576 2089 Passcode: 220105
>>>> PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SHARE THE PROGRAM, LINK, ETC WITH YOUR FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES
>>>>
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++ <>
>>>>
>>>> <>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Plamen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:28 AM joe.brenner at bluewin.ch <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>> wrote:
>>>> To : plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com <mailto:plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc : joe.brenner at bluewin.ch <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>, ghatchard at gmail.com <mailto:ghatchard at gmail.com>, fis at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>, pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com <mailto:pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com>, heiko at pax-terra-musica.de <mailto:heiko at pax-terra-musica.de>, bruno.marchal at insas.be <mailto:bruno.marchal at insas.be>, dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com <mailto:dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you, Plamen. The tradition in which Nagarjuna worked goes back another 700 years or so till the time of Buddha if not earlier: real “roots”!
>>>>
>>>> Now, Francesco wrote that 1) “Only information measured (measurable) in bits of entropy can be traced back to to Aristotelian-binary logic.
>>>>
>>>> And 2) There is no information that is not understood in a contradictory-probabilistic way. So complexity has an inherent limitation that implies the need for selection, contingency and risk.” These statements are necessary but for me insufficient, since the proper way in which the need can be approached in logic, for example by the non-semantic Lupasco system, is not spelled out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Plamen asked: “But how can we achieve such a giant change in all human thinking? Perhaps the only way to do this is genetic editing as the transhumanists promote. But what is the price of such fast evolution and do we want this?”
>>>>
>>>> My answer, in agreement with Guy, is absolutely not! This would be a step backward to a Deus ex machina “solution”. For me the only way is to deepen the connection between science, in particular information and cognitive science and a logic that expresses the core of the Eastern insights, without the need for any theology.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you and best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----Original Message----
>>>> From : 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com <mailto:13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
>>>> Date : 18/01/2023 - 07:06 (E)
>>>>
>>>> Caro Giuseppe,
>>>> solo l’informazione misurata in bit di entropia è riconducibile alla logica aristotelico-binaria. Per il resto, inerente ai sistemi complessi ineliminabili, non v’ha informazione che non venga intesa con modalità contraddittorio-probabilistiche. Quindi la complessità presenta una limitazione intrinseca che implica la necessità di selezione, contingenza e rischio. In termini operativo-matematici adotto una matrice interattiva avente una teoria economica del valore multi-fattoriale (esagonale) che risente di un’indeterminazione simile a quella, anch’essa matriciale, di W.K. Heisenberg. Se non ricordo male, Ti ho fatto avere La scienza non può non essere umana, civile, sociale, economi(c)a, enigmatica, nobile e profetica [92] assai significativa in proposito. Inoltre, nella mail del 14.1. 2023 ho fatto intravedere come il sistema fabbrica-mercato (azienda) sia un processo di tras-in-formazione basato proprio sulle strutture dissipative che creano ordine (output o beni prodotti) dal disordine (costi degli input) mediante instabilità o fluttuazioni. Ora basta, perché sono impegnato a concludere la composizione di un libro (per me) molto importante.
>>>> Francesco
>>>> Dear Joseph,
>>>> only information measured in bits of entropy can be traced back to Aristotelian-binary logic. For the rest, inherent to ineliminable complex systems, there is no information that is not understood in a contradictory-probabilistic way. So complexity has an inherent limitation that implies the need for selection, contingency and risk. In operational-mathematical terms, I adopt an interactive matrix having an economic theory of multi-factorial value (hexagonal) which suffers from an indeterminacy similar to that, also matrix-based, of W.K. Heisenberg. If I remember correctly, I made you have Science cannot fail to be human, civil, social, economic, enigmatic, noble and prophetic [92] very significant in this regard. Furthermore, in the email dated 14.1. 2023 I showed how the factory-market system (company) is a process of trans-in-formation based precisely on the dissipative structures that create order (output or goods produced) from disorder (input costs) through instability or fluctuations. That's enough, because I'm busy finishing the composition of a very important book (for me).
>>>> Francis,
>>>>
>>>> Il giorno mar 17 gen 2023 alle ore 17:45 Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov < plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com <>> ha scritto:
>>>> This is a brilliant idea, Joseph!
>>>> Thank you for reminding us of this text. Yes, of course. But how can we achieve such a giant change in all human thinking? One might assume that the Tetralemma is already embodied in someone's DNA which is a rare mutation. Ted told us about the different thinking patterns of native folks and this is all true, but these ways of thinking did not penetrate much into our civilized world of today. Can we expect such an enhancement within the shortest period of time? Perhaps the only way to do this is genetic editing as the transhumanists promote. But what is the price of such fast evolution and do we want this?
>>>> I will have another comment on this later.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Plamen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 5:32 PM joe.brenner at bluewin.ch <> < joe.brenner at bluewin.ch <>> wrote:
>>>> Dear Plamen, Dear Francesco and All,
>>>>
>>>> From a philosophical standpoint, it is possible that some of our problems are due to retention of binary thinking, maintained in the form of bivalent logic and dilemmas of all kinds. One way out is to move to a more complex lemmic structure of thought, such as the Tetralemma of Nagarjuna, recently reinterpreted by Japanese Yamauchi Tokuryu (accessible in French). Does it help to talk about chicken and egg, chicken or egg, neither chicken nor egg, both chicken and egg? It does not, because "chicken" and "egg" are simple objects. But if you apply the principle of the Tetralemma to the contradictorial properties of information, it may. A suivre.
>>>> Comments on the two thinkers mentioned would be most welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Joseph
>>>> ----Original Message----
>>>> From : plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com <>
>>>> Date : 17/01/2023 - 12:43 (E)
>>>> To : 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com <>
>>>> Cc : dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com <>, ghatchard at gmail.com <>, heiko at pax-terra-musica.de <>, pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com <>, bruno.marchal at insas.be <>, fis at listas.unizar.es <>, joe.brenner at bluewin.ch <>
>>>> Subject : Re: [Fis] THE ROOTS OF MODERN CIVILISATION--transformers
>>>>
>>>> Caro Francesco, Nikita, cari tutti,
>>>>
>>>> catching on (self-)consciousness! I had great feedback on this topic from Guy Hatchard in another forum last night which I forward here with his permission because it makes a nice link to what we talked about before. Guy is also invited to our discussion here, so you can respond to him directly. Dear Guy, please use the email address fis at listas.unizar.es <> to reach all on the FIS forum. I do hope you have filled the form on the server you were sent a link to a while ago; please check your spam box. (If not, please let me know.)
>>>>
>>>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ <>
>>>>
>>>> You might like this release which seems relevant to this thread
>>>>
>>>> The Origin of Life, Consciousness, and Gene Editing
>>>>
>>>> The general public has been educated to regard DNA as the molecule which unravelled the mystery of the origin of life. When you hear that a mystery is solved, there is a tendency to want to go home, put your feet up, stop worrying, and start looking for something more interesting such as pizza and chips or a good movie.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, the suggestion that we know how life originated is not just an oversimplification, it is a completely misleading suggestion. DNA does not exist as a naked molecule. It only functions within the cell. Molecular mechanisms in the cell read the information in the DNA and translate this into hundreds of proteins used in the body for a myriad of functions. The transcription and translation of genetic information is achieved via a complex information-processing system utilizing many types of nucleic acids (mRNA, tRNA, and others) and many specific enzymes. These form a tightly integrated system of systems.
>>>>
>>>> More than a hundred highly complex proteins are involved in translation. The paradox therein has not escaped commentators, these proteins cannot themselves be made except by DNA. The late British philosopher Sir Karl Popper mused for example:
>>>>
>>>> “What makes the origin of life and the genetic code a disturbing riddle is this: the code cannot be translated except by certain products of its own translation.”
>>>>
>>>> In simple terms, the cell presents a chicken and egg paradox. It is impossible to decide which came first—proteins or DNA. Cells present a complex system of multiple interdependent parts and it is therefore hard to imagine how the whole system came into being. It is a self-referral system which functions holistically.
>>>>
>>>> Self-referral systems point to fundamental principles and laws that characterise the search for unified field theories of physics.
>>>>
>>>> Let’s conceptually break down cellular functions:
>>>>
>>>> DNA contains strings of information, like the software programme of a computer.
>>>> The information in the DNA is accessed by forms of RNA, aided by multiple enzymatic proteins and then conveyed to the Ribosome.
>>>> The Ribosome manufactures proteins, some of which are the same proteins which aid transcription and translation of DNA.
>>>> Crucially the whole system is integrated within the cell—it refers to itself.
>>>> Do we know any other systems which work in an analogous self-referral way? Yes we do. Our everyday process of experience in which there is an observer, a process of observation, and an object of perception all integrated within our consciousness, our sense of self. In this analogy:
>>>>
>>>> The DNA is like the observer—which is both a constant controlling source of information for the whole project of perception whose memory gets updated by events or experiences
>>>> The RNA is like the process of observation, it reads the DNA and it connects with and creates proteins.
>>>> The proteins are similar to the objects of our perception, they are very diversified and active like our environment, and they keep us alive.
>>>> Our abstract consciousness or sense of self and identity is a silent witness to the whole process and keeps it all together.
>>>> This three-in-one structure of consciousness is therefore a source candidate for the origin of life. The more so, because one primary function of our physiology as a whole seems to be to act as a platform for consciousness to express itself.
>>>>
>>>> Cells divide and thereby replicate themselves. Each new human life begins with a single cell which grows into a complete person through replication. Imagine a machine which makes lego bricks. Lego bricks are inanimate. Each new lego brick is independent of every other lego brick. It takes the consciousness of a person to assemble them into something meaningful.
>>>>
>>>> Cells however are alive, as they divide and grow, each new cell is connected with a whole system, each new cell is connected to the unique identity of the person—their consciousness. Cells are bound together, not just mechanistically, but they are part of a system that is alive in the sense that a person is alive—creative, intelligent, self-aware, emotional, and so on.
>>>>
>>>> Our physiology has an extraordinary capacity to coordinate the activity of trillions of diverse types of cells and structures within a single whole system internally communicating while maintaining homeostasis and repair. This also supports a consistent human identity which at the same time communicates intelligently with other humans. This points to the involvement of more universal abstract unified physical laws and also to the primary role of consciousness in human life and physiology.
>>>>
>>>> Consciousness is a very good candidate for the source of individual life forms for other reasons. In the structure of natural law, more fundamental explanatory principles are always more abstract. Consciousness is undoubtedly the most abstract concept with which we are familiar.
>>>>
>>>> The qualities which regulate cellular function are also analogous to the functions of consciousness in other very important ways. In the cellular environment and whole system these factors are crucial:
>>>>
>>>> Shape—molecules have to fit into spaces to function and may also form larger systems aided by quasi crystallization processes and molecular folding. There are ‘jigsaw’ or ‘lock and key’ mechanisms whereby only certain components of a molecule can bond with other molecules.
>>>>
>>>> Viscosity—the cellular system is a ‘wet’ or fluid environment whose characteristics must remain optimised for smooth transport of components.
>>>>
>>>> Navigation—cellular components must be able to navigate their way around the cell. This is no small task, there are 42 million molecules in the average cell.
>>>>
>>>> Vibration—there are vibrational modes of all molecules which are modulated by their energy and the temperature of the cellular environment. There are integrated energy sources in cells and feedback loops to maintain this and other functions.
>>>>
>>>> Timing—the sequences of events and their timing are crucial for cellular function.
>>>>
>>>> These processes bear some relationship with the physiology of perception and decision-making. These could be the subject of future discussion, but for the moment consider the complexity of the cell and its dependence on its own self-referral integrated functioning.
>>>>
>>>> The introduction, as happens with mRNA vaccination, of foreign genetically active components could and does upset this integrated balanced functioning. The introduced genetic material has functions that differ from expected cellular functions, it has a different shape, carries different information, bonds and folds differently, etc.
>>>>
>>>> What does this mean in layman’s terms? This Christmas we had some guests who used our clothes dryer. Unaware of its routine care, they failed to empty the condensed water before using it, it overflowed internally and the dryer stopped working. Yesterday I took it to bits, cleaned and dried it out, and now it works again. Effectively I reset it to its factory condition. Very often complex equipment such as computers have software fixes to restore initial factory settings, which are used in case the parameters or sequence of instructions have failed. However this doesn’t solve all problems as every computer owner eventually finds out.
>>>>
>>>> Cells have their own internal reset buttons. Every day hundreds of thousands of repair jobs are carried out in each cell whereby the integrity of DNA and a myriad of other crucial parameters are preserved. mRNA vaccination actually aims to override these safety factors and retask some cells to perform an entirely different function. You can imagine what can go wrong. The cell may never recover its factory settings. It might, and research now shows it often does, go on producing toxic spike protein and sending it around the physiology for some time. We are left like a little child, who having inquisitively torn off the arms of its favourite toy, sits and weeps with disappointment when parental repairs are not possible.
>>>>
>>>> Having investigated and proposed an intimate connection between the cell and consciousness. It appears obvious that mRNA vaccination could put the integrity and stability of our consciousness, physiology, survival, and even our identity at risk. Certainly we are seeing an unprecedented range of adverse effects proximate to mRNA vaccination extending to neurology, cancers, and cardiac effects affecting organs, and organ systems. Such effects appear in some cases to be related to the dispersion of inoculated foreign genetic material in physiology carrying rogue instructions.
>>>>
>>>> Health systems around the world are struggling to arrive at effective responses to these adverse effects. A sensible diet, exercise, and rest are always an aid to health conditions along with many other approaches known to medicine, but the extent that these can facilitate the self repair of deliberate genetic modification is unknown.
>>>>
>>>> Because consciousness is fundamental to physiology, there are reasonable grounds to suppose there are techniques of meditation, technologies of consciousness, which can at least partially assist with recovery from health conditions resulting from mRNA vaccination. I have discussed these at length elsewhere in my book Your DNA Diet along with over 800 references to research demonstrating physiological, psychological, and sociological benefits of meditation.
>>>>
>>>> However, there is no evidence at present suggesting this or any other approach will be curative for serious long term damage from genetic modification. There appears, in the case of those who might be seriously impacted by genetic dysfunction, to be no external reset button to rewind the clock of gene editing. There are no known magic bullets. Any possible efficacy concerning recovery would first have to be assessed by research.
>>>>
>>>> The main point I want to make in this article is to emphasise the extreme risks of genetic manipulation. Nature’s designer went to great lengths to place the cell and especially the cell nucleus off limits to interference and modification. It is at the core of life and its perpetuation via reproduction. Nature similarly ring-fenced the nucleus of the atom for very good reasons. If we were unsure in any way before the pandemic about the safety of gene editing, there should be no doubt now. It should be off limits. Its continued use is an unfolding catastrophe.
>>>>
>>>> At GLOBE.GLOBAL we are calling for Global Legislation Outlawing Biotechnology Experimentation.
>>>>
>>>> Guy Hatchard PhD
>>>> Website: HatchardReport.com <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://hatchardreport.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XbzSfzXVutKkxtn7X8xA_8IVT4q-62epi6dIQHXWc1RlRDVfrehdnI9t8dlbLSW-HUDzNAAmyonNPkKidrkMPtjJLI8w$>
>>>> Home 094372012
>>>> Mob 022 636 7760
>>>> Skype Name: GuyHatchard
>>>>
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++ <>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 5:45 AM Francesco Rizzo < 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com <>> wrote:
>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>> both Plamen (who I hope received the email of 16.11 on January 14, 2023) and Nikita grasped the fundamental role of information of consciousness or of information consciousness that I raised in an immediate, simple and telegraphic-mathematical way, calling into question the discernment of good and evil operated by the moral conscience which is "the sanctuary where man is alone with God" (Gaudium et Spes, n, 16).
>>>> All this com-proves the thinking thought of an economist who adopts the theory of value-information, which I am, and implies the application or the continuous adaptation of the change of logic or the logic of change intrinsic to the onto-epistem - concrete economic logic.
>>>> Let's go on like this, helping each other, otherwise the consciousness of science or the science of consciousness derails, liquefies or vanishes. Thank you and best wishes for a good joint research.
>>>> Francis.
>>>> Cari colleghi,
>>>> sia Plamen (che mi auguro abbia ricevuto la mail delle ore 16.11 del 14 gennaio 2023) che Nikita hanno colto il ruolo fondamentale dell’informazione della coscienza o della coscienza dell’informazione che ho sollevato in un modo immediato, semplice e telegrafico-matematico, chiamando in causa il discernimento del bene e del male operato dalla coscienza morale che è “il sacrario dove l’uomo è solo con Dio” (Gaudium et Spes, n, 16).
>>>> Tutto ciò com-prova il pensiero pensante di un economista che adotta la teoria del valore-informazione, quale io sono, e implica l’applicazione o l’ad-attamento continuo del cambiamento della logica o della logica del cambiamento intrinseco alla onto-epistemo-logica economica concreta.
>>>> Andiamo avanti cosi, autandoci reciprocamente, altrimenti la coscienza della scienza o la scienza della coscienza deraglia, si liquefà o svanisce. Grazie e auguri di un buon lavoro di comune ricerca.
>>>> Francesco.
>>>>
>>>> Il giorno lun 16 gen 2023 alle ore 04:15 Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov < plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com <>> ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you so much for your reflections and opinions. Let me try wrapping up your messages into an effort to derive some conclusions and move to the next phase.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. There is view on history as a huge set of data as a multidimensional vector space which can be analyzed for regular patterns and anomalies in social and cultural organization in Europe during a period of decay and crises to reverse-engineer promising paths of success that enable society to recover and elevate on a higher level of moral, cultural, scientific and technological organization. The Christian monastic system was suggested as such a recovery model/motor. It not only enabled the integration of the invading barbarian tribes into a family of nations with common values, but also the transition of the achievements of the antiquity (architecture, art, literature, poetry, theatre, music, law, etc.) that were centered around celebrating deities, but then developed into what became humanistic in later centuries. Jesus was of human origin. There is no nation/state/civilization without a common identity in terms of language, mora/law, spirit/traditions, values and culture.
>>>>
>>>> 2. There is a scientific juxtaposition of history as a (hierarchical) set of interacting dynamic bifurcation compositions/agents in every process of physical organization including those of social structures derived from the nature of the phenomenon. In the case of human beings, these are e.g. their genes, neurons and other forms of “hardware” with the resulting higher-level biological organization (perception, cognition, consciousness) that determine fundamental abstractions and notions such as those of “thingness”, “duration”, “causality”, “equality/equivalence”, ”logic”, “belief”, “ownership”, etc. along with their dual opposites (“good/evil”) which on their part determine further complex derivatives (language, science, technology, moral, etc.) and determine the course of history through interactions. The outcomes of historic events can be traceable or stochastic depending on which substrates are settled and which forces act upon them, incl. those of nature itself with its own “wiring” which often remain elusive/hidden for the human mind’s reach.
>>>>
>>>> Note 1: (group) prayer and belief is also a viable agent within this context. Wrong/fake concepts can also systematically/stochastically change the course of history.
>>>>
>>>> Note 2: the special role of time as an agency of changes which can be regarded not only as a derivative of changes in other agents, but also such upon itself (time/tense!)
>>>>
>>>> Note 3: the tight balance between (enforced) state/composition/sharing of a form of organization/civilization incl. the transition to another one in time, and Bohm’s hidden variables potential in terms of cycles/loops of recursion which become agents as well.
>>>>
>>>> Note 4: Rewiring into the historical information flow is possible incl. empiricism (Oliver Heaviside: “Mathematics is an experimental science, and definitions do not come first, but later on.”) and intuition, the link to the humanities and art. Medicine is supposed to operate at this edge. The crises of integrity/credibility affect all disciplines, however.
>>>>
>>>> 3. There is also a third moral juxtaposition in the discernment between dualities such as good/evil, order/chaos, beautiful/ugly within the three major roots/virtues of shared/divided reality/civilization: scientific-biological, humanistic and technical-scientific (with some modifications). || C'è anche un terzo accostamento morale nel discernimento tra dualità come bene/male, ordine/caos, bello/brutto all'interno delle tre grandi radici/virtù della realtà/civiltà condivisa/divisa: scientifica-biologica, umanistica e tecnico-scientifica ( con alcune modifiche).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now, is it possible to derive a pragmatic approach to solve our present problems when having these 3 juxtapositions at hand? What if the funny, superficial view that our modern techno-emancipated society has on the religious/philosophical controversies of the past is at the base of our own “root” problems of today? Did science not become a religion recently, when it comes to the public appearance of powerful and influential people like Dr. Fauci who became famous with his motto “Follow the science.” Is science supposed to be taken without questioning now? We have already witnessed a redefinition of what a “vaccine” is supposed to be in order to integrate an emergency authorized genetic therapy with quite different outcomes according to CDC. Yet this is not an isolated case. There is a whole history of manipulation of scientific truth to match the financial and political interests of the powerful class and the corporate capital. Our present era is literally shaken by biomedical fiascos which began with the suicides of whistleblowers (thalidomide, tobacco cancers), moved through the enforced distribution of Methylphenidate (Ritalin), a CNS stimulation drug, on adolescents in the 90's "decade of the brain", and ended in the current crisis of opioid painkillers (obscene business) and the unknowns in the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. At the same time, we witness the march of the destructive woke ideologies which enforce the revision of nearly everything, incl. history itself, initiated from the very same places that once brought Enlightenment in Europe, the great universities, which became incubators and laboratories of neo-barbarism and social disintegration. How can we overcome this decay? Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Plamen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PS. Today begins the meeting of the self-proclaimed world elite, WEF, in Davos, CH. Do you think they are going to solve our problems?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 10:45 AM Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov < plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com <>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Caro Francesco,
>>>> Grazie per la vostra risposta. Questa è un'osservazione molto interessante sulle scelte di civiltà che vorrei commentare per intero.
>>>> Ho controllato la posta in arrivo e non sono riuscito a trovare la breve e-mail che mi hai inviato il 7 gennaio. Sarebbe così gentile da rispedircelo, per favore? Questo è successo alcune volte con altre email di amici con cui non sono in contatto da un po', da quando Google ha deciso di metterle nella cartella spam. Di solito lo controllo prima di eliminare i post spazzatura, ma chi lo sa? Puoi anche scrivermi direttamente a plamen at simeio.org <>. È possibile che il mailer FIS non funzioni correttamente. Molte cordiali grazie!
>>>> Auguri,
>>>> Plamen
>>>>
>>>> + <> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>
>>>> Dear Fran cis,
>>>> Thank you for your response. This is a very interesting remark about the choices of civilization which I'd like to comment on in full length.
>>>> I checked my incoming post and could not find the short email which you have sent me on January 7th. Would you be so kind as to resend it, please? This happened a few times with other emails from friends I have not been in touch with for a while, since Google decided to put them in the spam folder. I usually control it before deleting the junk posts, but who knows? You can also write to me directly to plamen at simeio.org <>. It could be the case that the FIS mailer does not work properly. Many cordial thanks!
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> Plamen
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 8:50 AM Francesco Rizzo < 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com <>> wrote:
>>>> Cari Jerry, Joseph e Plamen,
>>>> Vi debbo con ritardo (perché avevo superato le tre mail settimanali prescritte) due brevi risposte e l’integrazione di poche parole inerenti esclusivamente alle cose di mia pertinenza o conoscenza e relative a quanto ho scritto il Il 3 gennaio 2023, alle 22:59 e il 7 gennaio 2023 alle ore 18.18.
>>>> - Jerry tu, fra l’altro, concludi il tuo ragionamento così: «Non capisco il ragionamento di Prigogine che viene citato circa le"strutture dissipative" di Ilya Prigogine che creano ordine (neg-entropia) dal disordine (entropia) attraverso fluttuazioni o instabilità. COME “attraverso fluttuazioni o instabilità” è correlato al concetto di spontaneità. Ad esempio, in che modo il concetto di fluttuazioni si collega alla vecchia economia e quali concetti aggiuntivi collegano le fluttuazioni alla “ Nuova economia”?».
>>>> Per rispondere a queste domande ci vorrebbero molte pagine che non mi sono consentite. Quindi mi limito a ricordarTi quel che scrive I. Prigogine ne La Nuova Alleanza (PBE, Torino, 1993):
>>>> Capitolo quinto-I tre stadi della termodinamica- 3. Lontani dall’equilibrio. Le strutture dissipative (…) La termodinamica classica ci fornisce il concetto di “struttura di equilibrio”, come i cristalli. Le cellule di Bènard sono pure esempi di strutture, ma di natura assai diversa. Questa è la ragione per cui abbiamo introdotto il concetto di strutture dissipative. (…) Qui la dissipazione dell’energia e della materia (entropia) diventa in condizioni lontane dall’equilibrio, fonte di ordine (neg-entropia). (…) Le strutture dissipative corrispondono ad una forma di organizzazione super-molecolare. (…).
>>>> Capitolo sesto-L’ordine per fluttuazione (…). «Per dirlo in termini antropomorfici: lontano dall’equilibrio la materia comincia a “percepire il suo ambiente (…). Lontano dall’equilibrio le fluttuazioni ci permettono di usare le differenze dell’ambiente per produrre differenti strutture. Una volta di più vogliamo sottolineare l’importanza essenziale delle condizioni di lontananza dall’equilibrio: “comunicazione” e “percezione” sono le parole chiave del nuovo comportamento della materia lontano dall’equilibrio» (pp. 148 e 170-71).
>>>> Aggiungo o ricordo che la comunicazione prevede la possibilità che l’informazione sia talora definibile come entropia e come neg-entropia (e quindi inversamente proporzionale all’entropia), ciò dipende dal fatto che nel primo caso l’informazione è intesa solo come misura (in termini di bit) di probabilità di un evento all’interno di un sistema-fonte equiprobabile e nel secondo caso come informazione già selezionata, trasmessa e ricevuta, sovrapponendo alla fonte-sistema equiprobabile un s-codice che la riduce, riempiendola o svuotandola di significato semantico.
>>>> La vecchia economia di queste cose non s’è mai occupata, mentre la mia nuova economia è disseminata in dozzine di libri ai quali non posso fare altro che rinviare, con la modestia di sempre.
>>>> -Joseph, tu mi dici che «il quadro di Prigogine è molto incompleto È ciò che accade vicino all'equilibrionel processo mentale, dove i livelli energetici delle strutture sono vicini tra loro, che è importante quanto dove sono separati se non di più. Quanto al cambiamento, tutto il mio sistema logico-filosofico si potrebbe chiamare Logica del Cambiamento».
>>>> Non è meglio chiamare armonia, quello che tu chiami equilibrio? L’equilibrio è statico, senza vita, cadaverico sia in senso fisico o metaforico. Difatti, quanti in economia si sono incaponiti a fondare questa scienza sull’equilibrio ottimale e unico l’hanno privata di qualsiasi consistenza teorica. E poi, permettimi di sottolineare anche l’importanza del cambiamento della logica accostandolo al libricino di hegel sulla Scienza della logica.
>>>> - Infine, Plamen in data 7 gennaio 2023 alle ore 18.18 ti ho mandato una brevissima mail che si conclude così: «queste tre radici, telegraficamente espresse, confluiscono nella capacità-virtù del discernimento del bene e del male». Ora esprimo meno sinteticamente questa conclusione: «(…) confluiscono nella capacità virtù della coscienza che opera il discernimento del bene e del male scegliendo il primo v’ha la con-divisione della civiltà, scegliendo il secondo v’ha la divisione dell’inciviltà».
>>>>
>>>> Dear Jerry, Joseph and Plamen,
>>>> I owe you late (because I had exceeded the prescribed three weekly emails) two brief replies and the addition of del male scegliendo il primo v’ha la con-divisione della civiltà, scegliendo il secondo v’ha la divisione dell’inciviltà».a few words relating exclusively to things of my relevance or knowledge and related to what I wrote on January 3, 2023, at 10:59 pm and on 7 January 2023 at 6.18 pm.
>>>> - Jerry you, among other things, conclude your reasoning like this: «I don't understand Prigogine's reasoning that is quoted about Ilya Prigogine's "dissipative structures" that create order (neg-entropy) from disorder (entropy) through fluctuations or instability. HOW “through fluctuations or instability” is related to the concept of spontaneity. For example, how does the concept of fluctuations relate to the old economy and what additional concepts relate fluctuations to the 'New Economy'?
>>>> To answer these questions it would take many pages that are not allowed to me. So I limit myself to reminding you of what I. Prigogine writes in La Nuova Alleanza (PBE, Turin, 1993): Fifth chapter-The three stages of thermodynamics- 3. Far from equilibrium. Dissipative structures (…) Classical thermodynamics provides us with the concept of “equilibrium structure”, such as crystals. Benard's cells are also examples of structures, but of a very different nature. This is the reason why we have introduced the concept of dissipative structures. (…) Here the dissipation of energy and matter (entropy) becomes, in conditions far from equilibrium, a source of order (neg-entropy). (…) Dissipative structures correspond to a form of super-molecular organization. (…).
>>>> Sixth chapter-Order by fluctuation (…). «To put it in anthropomorphic terms: far from equilibrium, matter begins to "perceive its environment (...). Far from equilibrium, fluctuations allow us to use differences in the environment to produce different structures. Once again we want to underline the essential importance of the conditions of distance from equilibrium: "communication" and "perception" are the key words of the new behavior of matter away from equilibrium» (pp. 148 and 170-71).
>>>> I add or recall that the communication provides for the possibility that information can sometimes be defined as entropy and as neg-enropy (and therefore inversely proportional to the entropy), this depends on the fact that in the first case the information is understood only as a measure ( in terms of bits) of the probability of an event within an equiprobable source-system and in the second case as information already selected, transmitted and received, superimposing an s-code on the equiprobable source-system which reduces it, filling or emptying it of semantic meaning.
>>>> The old economy never dealt with these things, while my new economy is disseminated in dozens of books to which I can do nothing but refer, with the usual modesty.
>>>> -Joseph, you tell me that«the Prigogine picture is very incomplete. It is what happens near equilibrium in the mental process, where the energy levels of the structures are close to each other, which is as important as where they are separated if not more. As for change, my entire logical-philosophical system could be called the Logic of Change».
>>>> Isn't it better to call harmony, what you call balance? The balance is static, lifeless, cadaverous in both a physical and metaphorical sense. In fact, those in economics who have made a point of founding this science on the optimal and unique equilibrium have deprived it of any theoretical consistency. And then, let me also underline the importance of the change in logic by comparing it to Hegel's little book on the Science of Logic.
>>>> - Finally, Plamen, on 7 January 2023 at 18.18 I sent you a very short email which concludes as follows: «these three roots, expressed telegraphically, converge in the capacity-virtue of discerning good and evil». Now I express this conclusion less succinctly: «(…) virtues of the conscience which operate the discernment of good and evil flow into the capacity by choosing the first there is the sharing of civilization, choosing the second there is the division of incivility ».
>>>> Thanks to all three. A hug.
>>>> Francis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Grazie a Tutti e tre. Un abbraccio.
>>>> Francesco
>>>>
>>>> Il giorno gio 12 gen 2023 alle ore 19:53 Marcus Abundis < 55mrcs at gmail.com <>> ha scritto:
>>>> I am reading the posts with interest, but do not have a lot to add – but I notice . . .
>>>> From Pedro's post,
>>>> > We suffer nowadays another strong imbalance between hyper-developed
>>>> > computer and AI techs (Web, social networks, robotics, etc.) and some
>>>> > infra-developed, scarcely coherent scientific fields--missing a parallel
>>>> > information body which could bring a new understanding and consistency.
>>>> I think this is rather on point, but applying not just to the current NY topic/discussion.
>>>> I feel that exploring THIS area would be of particular interest and import for the current NY discussion.
>>>> Marcus
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> INFORMACI�N SOBRE PROTECCI�N DE DATOS DE CAR�CTER PERSONAL
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> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
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