[Fis] [External Email] Re: Biological computation session - Kickoff Text. Comment

[Marcus Abundis]

In tracking the various posts my eye is drawn to Stanley's note on removing
the 'quantum idea' and Koichiro's 'quantum-like' note.
It seems to me that *some* issues discussed head into the area of chaos
theory where 'pure happenstance' sustains 'quantum-like' roles.
It is not clear to me that *actual* quantum mechanical processes are even
required.
The problem remains though, that neither approach (chaos theory, nor
quantum mechanics) has enough concrete-ness for one to draw firm
conclusions.
Until all quantum 'measurement problems' are resolved, and until we glean
the deeper/broader implications of chaos theory, all remains speculation.
Still, that said . . . this area of inquiry and the exchange here remains
(if not also a bit frustrating).

Marcus


On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 10:04 AM Koichiro Matsuno <cxq02365 at nifty.com>
wrote:

> Sunday, June 19, 2022 1:34 AM, joe.brenner at bluewin.ch wrote;
>
>
>
> > I believe we may consider an area of science in which a dynamics of
> simultaneous actuality-potentiality provides the necessary macroscopic
> explanations, in which the processes involved are nevertheless
> *quantum-like,*
>
>
>
>   Quantum Mechanics is peculiar in allowing for both symbolic and
> indexical languages as demonstrated in the non-commutability of some
> indexical operations. Likewise, such concurrent participation of the both
> types of languages remains wide open even to various macroscopic
> disciplines without referring to QM directly.
>
>
>
>    Best,
>
>    Koichiro
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> *On Behalf Of *
> joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 19, 2022 1:34 AM
> *To:* 'Andrei Igamberdiev' <a_igamberdiev at hotmail.com>; 'Stanley N
> Salthe' <ssalthe at binghamton.edu>; 'fis' <fis at listas.unizar.es>; 'Gordana
> Dodig Crnkovic' <gordana.dodig-crnkovic at chalmers.se>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] [External Email] Re: Biological computation session
> - Kickoff Text. Comment
>
>
>
> Dear Gordana, Andrei, Nikita, Stan, and All,
>
> If I may, I would like to offer a brief summary of that part of the
> current discussion dealing with aspects of potentiality, with many thanks.
> The for me central issues were implied in the following, all on June 17:
>
>    1. Andrei:
>
> The potential field of the internal quantum state implies the simultaneous
> existence of contradictory statements (JEB: antagonistic phenomena?)
>
> The realization of Joseph’s approach, not only philosophically, but from
> the point of view of natural science, *require certain structures that
> can hold potentiality.*
>
>    1. Stan: What happens to your statement if the quantum idea is removed?
>    2. Andrei: I don’t see another way of explaining how a system holds a
>    coherent state for a prolonged time, without applying a theory that deals
>    with the transition between the potential and the actual. If the quantum
>    idea is removed, then we remove any possible explanations of the internal
>    determination of biological activity and the problem of self.
>    3. Stan:
>
> So then a QM interpretation would be validated as being ‘about’ something
> real in an aspect of actual nature (here a living cell) by way of
> constructing compatibility with a microscopic perspective derived from
> conventional microscopic science?
>
> It is quite a remarkable experience for me to see these ideas juxtaposed,
> finally discussed although certainly not in final form. I believe we may
> consider an area of science in which a dynamics of simultaneous
> actuality-potentiality provides the necessary macroscopic explanations, in
> which the processes involved are nevertheless *quantum-like. *I would
> call this an *unconventional *interpretation of standard science.
>
> If I take the example of intersubjectivity, we may thus consider here  a
> non-quantum concept for its grounding solely in the macroscopic
> interactions described.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
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>
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