[Fis] FW: Fwd: Entropy, the Second Law, and Life

Joseph Brenner joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
Sat Jan 9 09:57:27 CET 2021

Dear All,


This note, short as it is, contains three major errors of thought which
should not be passed over in silence. They are themselves in my opinion the
result of the oversimplification of the notion of complexity, as in the work
of Morin. 


1.     It ignores the local-global distinction. A process may be becoming
locally more complex and globally less so. 

2.     The expression constantly “steps up” is misleading. Emergent
simplicity or simplexity is a key alternative for some natural processes,
even in popular culture.

3.     The expression “constantly” steps up is misleading. Complex natural
processes are not univocal or unidirectional; they may stop, reverse
direction, and start again in the same or another one. Are such processes to
be given less scientific, ontological value? New systems concepts may be
useful here.


I “will not bother to comment” on expressions like the entropy-obsession of
science. Part of the problem is the absence of an accepted valid basis for
grounding emergent ordered diversity at the molecular level, the Pauli
Exclusion Principle.  This Principle operates conceptually in the direction
opposite to the 2nd Law. My reference to it has appeared recently in the
list, but the only comment on it so far was by this year’s moderator to the
effect that he does not understand its relevance. Information is embedded in
all emergent processes and study of it might be facilitated by seeing it –
information – also as an emergent process, following the complex dynamics I
have referred to as the Principle of Dynamic Opposition. For reference, this
states no more (but also no less) than that complex processes move
sinusoidally from primarily potential to primarily actual states, and vice
versa without going to the ideal, Kolmogorovian limits of 0 and 1.


Looking ahead, I see a major role for information in new descriptions of the
operation of concepts like order, probability and causality. Perhaps they
can be discussed in the parallel venues, with their own dynamics relative to
this one, of the forthcoming IS4SI Conference and its related
sub-Conferences. e.g. of Wu Kun on philosophy and Mark Burgin on
foundational principles. This itself is an emergent process. 


Thank you and best wishes,





From: Fis [mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Howard Bloom
Sent: samedi, 9 janvier 2021 03:20
To: pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es; fis at listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] Fwd: Entropy, the Second Law, and Life


good contribution, pedro.


freeing science from its entropy-obsession would be a major contribution. 


this cosmos constantly steps UP a stairway of complexity, not down.  and
calling this negentropy is just another way to imprison minds in entropy's
mistakes.  and in entropy's cult.


with warmth and oomph--howard




Howard Bloom


trailer for BRIC-TV's 66-minute film,The Grand Unified Theory of Howard
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Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st
Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),

The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A tremendously
enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic),  

The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock
your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),

How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!”
Timothy Leary),

The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book
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Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search  for Soul in the Power Pits of Rock
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Steering Committee.  Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society.
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Darwin Project.


-----Original Message-----
From: Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
To: fis at listas.unizar.es
Sent: Fri, Jan 8, 2021 8:39 am
Subject: Re: [Fis] Fwd: Entropy, the Second Law, and Life

Dear Arieh & FISers,

My appreciation for your elegant and lively contribution. Reading about 
labeling the food on their "negentropy content"  or advising on low 
entropy food (icy water!) was a most humorous way to criticize all the 
nonsense and "mystical mystery tours" around entropy. Particularly, 
Atkins (& Dawkins) quasi-religious views have always been unswallowable 
for me. Anyhow, two further aspects I would like to hear from you.

First, to put it most briefly, what basic, visual image would you convey 
for an intuitive understanding of entropy beyond the technicality of 
SMI? Uncertainty, chaos, disorder, diffusion, dispersal... some many 
terms around!  I could see years ago some heated exchanges you had with 
Frank Lambert, the champion of entropy as energy dispersal. There is 
also a longish comment on how Steven Pinker approaches 
entropy-information-evolution-cognition as the four fundamental concepts 
in our scientific understanding of the world. He is wrong (IMO) in all 
of them! Although it he is an extraordinary social psychologist the 
basic sci. background he proposes is tainted. If we could give a more 
sound "tetrad" even with those same concepts, it would be a great 
outcome. Clarifying entropy in all aspects we could advance would a 
terrific step.

And second (maybe to be discussed later on) do you accept "dimensions" 
for entropy? The units of jules/degreeK aren't they derived from having 
entered the Boltzmann's constant? Why do we need at all separate units 
for temperature and energy?

Thanks for all the exchanges so far!


Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group

pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es

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