[Fis] Abstract--Electronic Symbiosis—Lessons from Bacteria
Krassimir Markov
markov at foibg.com
Tue Feb 16 01:53:07 CET 2021
Dear Howard, Pedro, Plamen, and FIS Colleagues,
Let me remember the two main direction of AI:
1. To replace humans
2. To extend humans’ (mind) possibilities as a (brain) prosthesis.
I think, the Howard thesis is correct for the second area.
The first area may cause some fluctuations but I hope the human been will solve this problem.
I could not imagine pure machine society but replacing humans in dangerous operations, for instance, on Mars, is quite possible.
Of course, there exist military machines with AI, for example, drones, which may be used against humans ...
Friendly greetings
Krassimir
From: Howard Bloom
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 1:23 AM
To: plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com ; pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
Cc: fis at listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] Abstract--Electronic Symbiosis—Lessons from Bacteria
re: This biological argument is based on an exception. For most inter-species long term evolutionary encounters conduce to... extinction.
pedro, hi, could you give me some examples of interspecies encounters leading to extinction? to me, that would seem the exception to the rule. a cluster of different species living together in an ecological community benefit from keeping each other alive. despite their habit of eating each other.
re: Plamen, thanks for the comment. "I wish we were smart enough to push it forward into practice. Are we?"
hb: we often accomplish miracles with no consciousness of what we've done. I hope that happens here.
examples of material miracles we've made but have failed to plan or see:
<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->If you’d been born in 1850, your expected lifespan would have been 37.5 years. If you’d been born in the West in 2000, your expected lifespan would have been 78.5 years. Chinese Emperors were willing to spend almost all of their wealth to achieve an extra four years of life. But Western Civilization has added another 40. Western civilization has more than doubled the human lifespan. No other civilization in the history of the world—not the Chinese, Egyptian, Muslim, Russian Marxist, or Roman—has ever pulled this off.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->If you’d been the poorest paid worker in London in 2012, a personal assistant, you would have earned what an entire tenement full of the poorest paid workers in London were paid in 1850. You would have earned what seven Irish dockworkers made.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->If you gave a bunch of average Western kids today a Stanford Binet IQ test from 1900, today’s kids would register as near geniuses. They’d register an average IQ of roughly 135. That’s an IQ Jump of 35 points.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->If you were in an indigenous culture, one of those tribes that “lives in peace and harmony with nature,” your odds of dying a violent death at the hands of a fellow human being would be ten times what they are in the West today. Since 1650, Western Civilization has upped the level of peace by a factor of ten.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->If you were born in 2000, your height would have been four inches higher than if you’d been born in 1850.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->The Western System has lifted close to a billion people out of poverty in a mere twenty years.<!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->[i]<!--[endif]-->
however you are right. there's always a chance that we could blow it. or that we could built algorithms into military ai that ultimately decide that we are the enemy and need to be killed.
with warmth and oomph--howard
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<!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->[i]<!--[endif]--> https://www.economist.com/leaders/2013/06/01/towards-the-end-of-poverty
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com>
To: Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2021 1:55 pm
Subject: Re: [Fis] Abstract--Electronic Symbiosis—Lessons from Bacteria
I fully agree with you, Pedro, and your note about Michael Conrad.
Unfortunately, this challenging era we live now is certainly a great opportunity, as Howard suggests, but also at least 50% chance to surrender to what will come next to replace us as individuals. But I know that Howard has another receipt suggesting the development of the global interconnected mind (the "Avatar" movie idea) which is a nice goal we can evolve too, but from what I have been observing in the world during this pandemic, I conclude only that this mind is of a weird and perplexed global being. The only hope is that this state of illness will be over within a certain period of time.
Great books and a great theory, Howard! I wish we were smart enough to push it forward into practice.
Are we?
Best,
Plamen
___ ___ ___
Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov
Director Integral Biomathics
MolBio2Math – Molecular Biology & Integral Biomathics
a non-profit Foundation Institute
Arnimallee 22, 14195 Berlin, Germany
phone1: +1 (213) 281-5921
phone2: +49 173 7816 337
email: plamen at simeio.org
URLs: https://www.linkedin.com/in/plamenlsimeonov/
simeio.org | ibiomath.org | inbiosa.eu | molbio2math.org
OurWorldInData.org/coronavirus
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/covid-19-therapy
Orcid ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-2672-4405
Scopus Author ID: 7006001629
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On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 7:44 PM Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es> wrote:
Thanks Krassimir, it looks a good idea.
Those parties sending their abstracts, we should understand, are asking for discussion.
Then, here there are some comments on Howard's.
"What’s more, the cellulose eaters could defecate material that was toast with butter and jam to the cockroaches, the perfect food-- sugars and short-chain fatty acids..."
Quite right. Waste of one species becomes excellent food for another. I was then reminded Jerry's recent comments on entropy as being somehow analogous with "forms of natural wastes, such as feces, dung, shit, urine, etc." Well, it depends. Entropy itself, in Gibbs' free energy, becomes a frequent positive contribution to the chemical reaction free energy (when there is an entropy increase of products respect reactants). And it often helps in enzyme function too (e.g., by entropy change in vicinal water that empowers the enzyme for overcoming the activation energy barrier). Things in nature usually work in a series of conjugated, networked yin-yang relationships--rather than absolutes.
About the substance of the abstract, Who knows? Michel Conrad made a curious relationship --tradeoff principle-- between adaptability, evolvability, and information processing. An increase of the latter diminishes the former. So, we may find less capable people as they rely more and more on external algorithms or processing gadgets... is it already happening with the current generation, socially less and less adapted precisely because of their over-immersion onto "social networks"?
"If all goes well, that will be the relationship of AI and humankind—symbiosis. Mutual empowerment." Not necessarily. This biological argument is based on an exception. For most inter-species long term evolutionary encounters conduce to... extinction.
Gloom and Doom!
--Pedro
El 14/02/2021 a las 16:57, Krassimir Markov escribió:
Dear Howard,
Thank you for the abstract.
You are right!
Dear Pedro,
Maybe it is a good idea to discuss some abstracts in FIS list.
I think, the moderators of sessions may take a such decision.
Friendly greetings
Krassimir
From: Howard Bloom
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 3:06 AM
To: fis at listas.unizar.es ; pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
Subject: [Fis] Abstract--Electronic Symbiosis—Lessons from Bacteria
i've submitted the following abstract to wolfgang hofkirchner for his digital humanism section of the conference:
Electronic Symbiosis—Lessons from Bacteria
Howard Bloom
howlbloom at aol.com
Author, The Lucifer Principle: a Scientific Expedition into the Forces of History
Chairman, The Howard Bloom Institute
Founder and co-chair, The Asian Space Technology Summit
Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York University
Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute, Meriden, Connecticut
Some say that we should not let humanity’s new electronic frontiers reshape us. But every time technology has reshaped us, it has upgraded us. To see how synergies with electronic systems like artificial intelligence can give humanity and humanism new powers, look at how bacteria have gained new abilities over the last billion years. They could have anticipated being annihilated by the new multicellulars and tried to stop multicellular formation. But the multicellulars did not wipe out their single-celled forebears. Far from it. They worked out deals with the multi-cellulars. And those cooperative arrangements gave both the microbes and the multi-cellular beasts whole new powers, whole new ways to make a living. Look, for example, at the cockroaches that first showed up on the planet 320 million years ago. For 69 million years, the cockroaches were limited to easily digestible food. But there was hard stuff all around them bursting with nourishment. That oh, too solid stuff was the tree. And there was no way that the digestive system of cockroaches could turn bark and wood into tasty treats. Then came over 33 species of bacteria and set up shop in the cockroach’s guts. Species like Paenibacillus lactis, Lysinibacillusmacrolides, and Stenotrophomonas maltophilia.[i] These microbial wonders could eat cellulose, the hard stuff that had previously made wood indigestible. What’s more, the cellulose eaters could defecate material that was toast with butter and jam to the cockroaches, the perfect food-- sugars and short-chain fatty acids. In exchange, the microbes used cockroaches as their transport and chewing machines. The cockroaches empowered by their bacterial colonists to eat trees took off on an evolutionary path of their own. Today we call them termites. And there are 2,000 species of them. Which means that once the lowly cockroach allowed cellulose-eating bacteria and flagellates to turn its innards into a microbial dining hall, the newly empowered cockroaches found 2,000 new ways to make a living. So, no, multicellular beings did not wipe out their single-celled progenitors. They gave them a rich new home. And they gavet he unicellulars breathtaking new abilities. If all goes well, that will be the relationship of AI and humankind—symbiosis. Mutual empowerment.
-----Original Message-----
From: Karl Javorszky mailto:karl.javorszky at gmail.com
To: 钟义信 mailto:zyx at bupt.edu.cn
Cc: fis mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es; Pedro mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
Sent: Fri, Feb 12, 2021 11:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Fis] 回复： New Year in China
Please resend the 2 papers, as my office software says it doesn't recognize the file format used.
Thanks
Karl
钟义信 <zyx at bupt.edu.cn> schrieb am Sa., 13. Feb. 2021, 03:29:
Dear Pedro,
Please accept my warm greetings to you for the outstanding contributions you made to IS4SI during the past years and also for the Chinese new year..
Here I would send you two documents of the Calls, see attachment, as some progresses made by China Chapter for the preparations for IS4SI World Summit-2021. I would be very grateful if you could help us by distributing the Calls to FISers.
My best regards,
Yixin
------------------ 原始邮件 ------------------
发件人: "Pedro"<pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>;
发送时间: 2021年2月13日(星期六) 凌晨5:43
收件人: "fis"<fis at listas.unizar.es>;
主题: [Fis] New Year in China
Dear FIS Colleagues,
With the occasion of the Chinese New Year, let me express our collective
greetings and best wishes to the FISers there. We badly need good news,
and at least the celebrations of a New Year bring us some sense of hope
and forbearance in front of the present difficulties. Probably, when all
of this recedes, we will be able to make fine discussions about social
resilience...
All the best
--Pedro
--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
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__________________________
Howard Bloom
Howardbloom.net
trailer for BRIC-TV's 66-minute film,The Grand Unified Theory of Howard Bloom, https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ
Best Picture, Science Design Film Festival. Best Documentary Feature, Not Film Festival, Italy. Now available on Apple TV, Amazon, Google Play, Microsoft, Vimeo, Vudu, and Fandango.
Author of: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post),
Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),
The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic),
The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),
How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!” Timothy Leary),
The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.” David Swindle, PJ Media), and
Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search for Soul in the Power Pits of Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager of Michael Jackson and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York Weekly Times.
A Quartz Magazine Pro
Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Current Kepler Space Institute Senior Scholar.
Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space Development Steering Committee. Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society. Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society. Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project.
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