[Fis] Fwd: Jerry--Communications theory? Re: Session closing
Pedro C. Marijuan
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
Mon Feb 8 18:48:52 CET 2021
From Jerry Chandler:
On Feb 3, 2021, at 5:36 PM, Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com
<mailto:howlbloom at aol.com>> wrote:
> jerry, thanks for this.
>
> correct me if i'm wrong, but entropy did not give us the steam engine,
> the steam engine gave us the concept of entropy.
>
> the steam engine was first patented in 1698. the concept of entropy
> was first put forth in 1865. eight generations later.
>
> so the claims about all the wonders that the concept of entropy has
> produced are, alas, false.
>
> with warmth and oomph—howard
List, Howard, Pedro:
Howard, you asked for a correction; wisely so.
The history of the concept of entropy is embedded in the mathematics of
the multiple concepts of energy and changes of forms of energy. The
scientific exchanges between roughly 1860-1920 explored the energy forms
of matter not only between solids, liquids and gases, but also between
mechanics and thermochemistry.
In order to read and interpret these manuscripts, one has to keep in
mind that the atomic theory of matter and the atomic table of elements
were under conceptual development during this period. This is not light
reading from a historical perspective.
A recent article analyses the lines of thought. The following paragraph
from the introduction of this 70 page paper introduces some of the
confusion that existed:
About the same time with the emergence of thermochemistry, Rudolf
Clausius, William Thomson, and William John Macquorn Rankine formulated
the second law of thermodynamics. From the first day of its appearance,
even after 1870, the interpretation of the second law was disputed. The
two main interpretations based on the available energy (Thomson) or the
entropy (Clausius) were surrounded by much confusion. The concept of
entropy, introduced in 1865 by Clausius, created further ambiguities in
the interpretation and possible applications of thermodynam- ics.
Entropy appeared to be an unnecessary ingredient of thermodynamics, and
even its inventor paid relatively little importance to this concept.
Clausius was uncer- tain about its meaning and significance. Thomson
never used entropy. James Clerk Maxwell misinterpreted the entropy
concept equating the unavailable energy with entropy. He printed these
remarks on entropy in his book the Theory of Heat and continued to
misinterpret Clausius in the next two publications (1872). He finally
corrected this error when he had read Gibbs’ work on thermodynamics
(Garber 1969, p. 150). In the 1860s and 1870s, thermodynamics was still
a young, incom- pletely understood theory. Its basic concepts and
methods were still in flux; its scope was not fully appreciated
(especially by chemists), and there were still dreams of perpetual
motion of the second kind.6
Archive for History of Exact Sciences (2021) 75:175–248
https://doi.org/10.1007/s00407-020-00259-8
Impact of Gibbs’ and Duhem’s approaches
to thermodynamics on the development of chemical thermodynamics
Photis Dais1,2
Received: 5 May 2020 / Published online: 2 September 2020
© Springer-Verlag GmbH Germany, part of Springer Nature 2020
(Available on Research Gate)
The mathematical relationships that related the energy transitions
between solids, liquids and gases, co-mingled with energy changes from
transformations of chemical forms (combustion, electrolysis, syntheses,
etc) led to modern thermodynamics. The academic consequences of these
mathematical formulations of natural and artificial processes was the
creation of the science of “physical chemistry”, a hybrid science and
often a separate academic department.
During the period of 1855 - 1912, the polymath C S Peirce wrote widely
on the interrelationships between chemistry, logic and mathematics as
well as philosophy. These logical entanglement underlie the development
of mathematical category theory as well as the massive confusions of the
bizarre narratives that embrace current views of the mathematics of
“complexity theory” and information theory.
Howard, your bizarre conclusion:
> the steam engine was first patented in 1698. the concept of entropy
> was first put forth in 1865. eight generations later.
>
> so the claims about all the wonders that the concept of entropy has
> produced are, alas, false.
>
Should be analyzed in light of the historical facts.
The perplexity of nature is beyond our imaginations…. But within the
narrow framework of biological thermodynamics, the useful energy gained
from metabolism that is incorporated into the anatomical structures of
life corresponds with the mathematical concept of “syntropy"; the
wasted energy that emanates from living systems as heat corresponds with
the mathematical concept of “entropy”.
Cheers
Jerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry LR Chandler <jerry_lr_chandler at icloud.com
> <mailto:jerry_lr_chandler at icloud.com>>
> To: fis at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>
> <fis at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>>
> Cc: Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com <mailto:howlbloom at aol.com>>; Pedro
> Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
> <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>>; Arieh Ben-Naim
> <ariehbennaim at gmail.com <mailto:ariehbennaim at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Wed, Feb 3, 2021 6:22 pm
> Subject: Communications theory? Re: [Fis] Session closing
>
> List, Arieh, Howard:
>
> IMO, This discussion of entropy was accompanied by both gaps and
> gluts, neither uncommon in such interdisciplinary occasions.
>
>> On Feb 2, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Arieh Ben-Naim <ariehbennaim at gmail.com
>> <mailto:ariehbennaim at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> The blunder is neither the concept of entropy nor the “ theory of
>> entropy” but the way people misused and misinterpreted entropy.
>
> This assertion should be underscored and placed in bold *CAPS*.
>
> The communications gaps illustrated in this discussion is the gap
> between dichotomy and dualism; that is, the logic of politics (see
> Plumwood).
>
> The concept of entropy, as part of the empirical sciences, has played
> a critical role in the taming of the natural forces and harnessing the
> flow of work from machines, freeing human energies for other purposes
> while concomitantly amplifying the natural forces efficiently. How
> was this achieved? By understanding FIRST the mathematics of ideal
> gas laws with respect to volume, pressure and temperature and then
> recognizing that triadic relationships among volume, pressure and
> temperature could be used to create motion within machines and that
> this motion could be channeled to useful work. The concept of entropy
> was introduced to quantify the inefficiency of the conversion of
> “energy” into work, that the ideality of gas laws was NOT perfect, but
> it was very practical. Work is harvested to create useful benefits
> designed for human purposes. Thus, metaphorically, the concept of
> entropy as NOT useful work, is semantically analogous to other forms
> of natural wastes, such as feces, dung, shit, urine, etc.
>
> Thus, the two scientific terms, roughly speaking, work (syntropy) and
> entropy, are dual terms with respect to useful and useless.
>
> The mathematics of thermodynamics, as Pedro as pointed toward and that
> is taught in every undergraduate physics and engineering curriculum,
> necessarily requires a closed system and other terms that relate the
> forms of energy. The quantitative theory of TD requires these other
> conceptual terms in order to make empirical calculations. The glut
> that I perceive in this discussion is one of the dichotomy of semantic
> ignorance. Howard, Stan and others intentionally ignore the bigger
> mathematical necessities and choose to wander into unrelated
> territories where other symbolic meanings of these mathematical
> symbols occur.
>
> The gap in this discussion was and is the ignorance of the role of TD
> equations in natural material processes that are not necessarily
> related to the ideal gas laws. These equations relate energy changes
> at constant temperature and pressure. Such equations are based on the
> law of mass action and relate changes of form to heat production. The
> equations are electrically- related equations that change patterns
> between natural sorts and kinds. The natural differences drive
> electromotive forces toward equilibrium. The five preceding sentences
> are expressed in physical terminology and refer to chemical changes of
> reactions and of course, biological catalysis. This gap in
> understanding of the meaning of a chemical reaction and the change of
> identity of material forms results in a serious omission. The
> omission is the critical role of the mathematics of energy
> transformations in the maintenance of life, the syntropism of
> metabolism. And, of course, the emergence and evolution of life.
>
> Amazingly, more than five decades have past since I read C. P. Snow’s,
> The Two Cultures. While some progress has been made, the gaps and
> gluts of misrepresentations, misunderstandings and misinformations
> persist. The logic of the political-scientific forms of “Long live
> Trumpisms” appears to be in play.
>
> Cheers
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Dear Howard,
>> Although you said that you agree with me, I feel I do not agree,
>> neither with your email, nor with what you wrote on entropy in God
>> Problem.
>> Entropy, is a well defined, well interpreted and very useful quantity
>> in thermodynamics.
>> The blunder is neither the concept of entropy nor the “ theory of
>> entropy” but the way people misused and misinterpreted entropy.
>> In your book you mention “Entropy’s error” and that the “notion of
>> entropy is wrong”
>> I certainly do not agree with you on that.
>> I am now working on a book which tentatively is called “ The Science
>> of God” where I criticize those who use scientific ideas ( including
>> entropy and the second law) in connection with God.
>> All the best
>> Arieh
>>
>> On Monday, February 1, 2021, Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com
>> <mailto:howlbloom at aol.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Arieh, hi,
>>
>> i agree completely with your statement that entropy may be the
>> biggest blunder in the history of science. it may be the
>> piltdown man of modern scientific theory.
>>
>> for more on why the theory of entropy is radically wrong, see my
>> book The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates.
>>
>> with warmth and oomph--howard
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Arieh Ben-Naim <ariehbennaim at gmail.com
>> <mailto:ariehbennaim at gmail.com>>
>> To: Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
>> <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>>
>> Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>>
>> Sent: Sun, Jan 31, 2021 3:00 am
>> Subject: Re: [Fis] Session closing
>>
>> Dear All,
>> and special thanks to Pedro.
>>
>> I do not have any further comments, beyond what I already wrote
>> on entropy and life.
>>
>> Perhaps I can add one comment, which is irrelevant to misuses of
>> entropy for life.
>> It concerns the misuses of entropy to the entire universe.
>> I believe that entropy is not definable to the entire universe,
>> not in the present, not in the future and not in the past universe.
>> Yet, there are whole books discussing the meaningless “low
>> entropy of the universe, near the Big Bang”
>> I have discussed this topic in great details in my recent book:
>> ENTROPY: The Greatest Blunder in the History of Science.
>>
>> All the best,
>> keep yourselves happy and healthy,
>> Arieh
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 15:04 Pedro C. Marijuan
>> <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> We are in the last days of January.
>> It means, unless there is some closing closing comments by
>> our Lecturer,
>> the end of the current New Year Lecture.
>> This has been a nice occasion to share comments on all the
>> abuses and
>> misconceptions around Entropy of Life.
>> Thanks to Arieh and all the participants.
>> Take a lot of care in these difficult times!!
>>
>> Best --Pedro
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------ -------------------
>> Pedro C. Marijuán
>> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>>
>> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
>> http://sites.google.com/site/ pedrocmarijuan/
>> <http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/>
>> ------------------------------ -------------------
>>
>>
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>> Prof. Arieh Ben-Naim
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>> __________________________
>> Howard Bloom
>> Howardbloom.net <http://howardbloom.net/>
>> trailer for BRIC-TV's 66-minute film,The Grand Unified Theory of
>> Howard Bloom, https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ
>> Best Picture, Science Design Film Festival. Best Documentary
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>> Amazon, Google Play, Microsoft, Vimeo, Vudu, and Fandango.
>>
>> Author of: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into
>> the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post),
>> Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the
>> 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),
>> The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A
>> tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National
>> Correspondent, The Atlantic),
>> The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument
>> will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),
>> How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild!
>> Wonderful!” Timothy Leary),
>> The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on
>> Islam.” David Swindle, PJ Media), and
>> Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search for Soul in the Power
>> Pits of Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy
>> DeMann, manager of Michael Jackson and Madonna), Best Book of
>> 2020, New York Weekly Times.
>> A Quartz Magazine Pro
>> Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York
>> University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute;
>> Current Kepler Space Institute Senior Scholar.
>> Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space
>> Development Steering Committee. Member Of Board Of Governors,
>> National Space Society. Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution
>> Society. Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Prof. Arieh Ben-Naim
>> Department of Physical Chemistry
>> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
>> Jerusalem, 91904
>> Israel
>>
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