[Fis] black hole and information

Mon Oct 12 13:23:13 CEST 2020

Dear Xueshan,

Thank you for the nice answer!

Now, I see, we have no differences about "reflection" and "physical information".

They notate one and the same phenomenon, i.e. they are the one and the same concept.

I prefer the term “reflection” because it is older at least of several thousand years and it is more clear and easy to use.

Thus way, in the nature, in the reality, there are “reflections”, which may become “information” in some special cases in the living creatures.

For instance, when two comets interact physically, chemically or mechanically, they influence each other and as result some reflections are generated. 

Comets do not exchange “information”. 

Post interaction changes are “reflections” but not “information”.

Friendly greetings

Krassimir

From: Xueshan Yan 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 6:47 AM
To: FIS 
Subject: Re: [Fis] black hole and information

Dear Krassimir,

Please criticize and correct the following reply.

What is methodical error in physics is that the different physical interactions like gravitation are assumed as information.  

【After nearly 70 years of efforts on information, we have formed the following unified view: information is generated by human reflection, and then there are two basic processes: communication and processing. However, the concept of information used by physicists does not follow this pattern. For example, in their latest statement: The world is created by the mediation of quantum waves of information.】

Can one describe what kind of information "Comet A can transmits to comet B". 

【This only is a hypothesis. Communication between different celestial bodies may or may not exist. It doesn't affect our informational judgment. There is always communication between two dogs.】

Only physical, chemical or mechanical interactions may exists in the not living nature.

Biological,  psychological and sociological interactions are specific only for living creatures.

【Both agree and disagree, whether information exists only in living creatures has been discussed numberless time in FIS.】

 "Does the moon exist when no one sees it?" 

Yes, it exists, but it doesn't know anything about itself as well as it is not recognized as an object by other objects.
The same is valid for all objects in the nature.

【Fundamental Information Studies cannot violate the principles of quantum mechanics. Instead, we can draw inspiration from there.】

Finally, I could not understand what means“the black hole information is physical”.
Please, can you describe the “physical information”.
Is it the same as the reflection i.e. some structural or functional changes after physical, chemical or mechanical interactions?

【When a physical object was reflected by any reflector, we say that the information is physical. In my deep statement, first, it is physical, and second, it is human. For example, genetic information, which is cellular (and, of course, physical, molecular...) But it's also human.】

【These discussions relate to a basic concept that I put forward to distinguish different information and different informatics: INFORWARE. Which are deeply described in my book "Information Science: Concept, System and Prospect (Beijing, 2016, Science Press, Chinese Edition)".】

【This is my second post this week, and according to FIS, I can only reply to one post later.】

Best wishes,

Xueshan

From: Xueshan Yan 

Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 4:13 AM

To: FIS 

Subject: Re: [Fis] black hole and information

Dear Krassimir,

Very sorry for my late reply.

1. Yes, your statement "The Nobel Prize is given to researchers but not to the Black hole." is more precise than my "This year's Nobel Prize in physics goes to black hole research".

2. "Without observer there is no black hole entropy, there is no information." Inadvertently, you have raised a quantum mechanical question of information. If we can remember, Einstein and Bohr have a long debate that has an essential impact on quantum mechanics. That is "Does the moon exist when no one sees it?" If there isn’t any human observer, does "black hole entropy or information" exist? I don't know.

3. "Comet A can transmits information to comet B", this information about the behavior of the two comets greatly enriches our understanding of astrophysics. Here, the first information is physical and the second is human. Therefore, in my immature view, your "Consciousness is needed to reflect reality and to assume some reflections as information." is a human informatics problem, while the black hole information is physical.

Karl's prediction is a great encouragement to us and will come true soon, let's be ready to accept the prize next year or later.

Best wishes,

Xueshan

From: fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> On Behalf Of Krassimir Markov
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 10:18 PM
To: yxs at pku.edu.cn; FIS Group <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: [Fis] black hole and information

Dear Xueshan,

I have only one remark.
The Nobel Prize is given to researchers but not to the Black hole and not to any other object in the Cosmos!

Without observer there is no Black hole entropy, there is no information.

So, the consciousness is needed to reflect reality and to assume some reflections as information.

Friendly greetings

Krassimir

From: Xueshan Yan 

Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2020 3:37 PM

To: FIS Group 

Subject: [Fis] black hole and information

Dear colleagues，

This year's Nobel Prize in physics goes to black hole research today. When the curvature of space-time of a celestial body is so large that even light cannot escape from its event horizon, we call it a black hole. I. Once a black hole is formed, except for mass, angular momentum, and electric charge, all the previous material properties as objects disappear; II. The horizon area of the black hole is equal to its entropy (entropy equals negative information). These two issues form a close relationship between the research of black hole and information. The follow-up effect of this year's Nobel Prize in physics may lead to further thinking on the information in the future by astrophysicists, and lay a reverie foundation for the informational interpretation of matter several years later.

Best wishes and health,

Xueshan

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