[Fis] black hole and information

Mon Oct 12 05:47:41 CEST 2020

Dear Krassimir,

Please criticize and correct the following reply.

What is methodical error in physics is that the different physical
interactions like gravitation are assumed as information.  

【After nearly 70 years of efforts on information, we have formed the
following unified view: information is generated by human reflection, and
then there are two basic processes: communication and processing. However,
the concept of information used by physicists does not follow this pattern.
For example, in their latest statement: The world is created by the
mediation of quantum waves of information.】

Can one describe what kind of information "Comet A can transmits to comet
B". 

【This only is a hypothesis. Communication between different celestial
bodies may or may not exist. It doesn't affect our informational judgment.
There is always communication between two dogs.】

Only physical, chemical or mechanical interactions may exists in the not
living nature.

Biological,  psychological and sociological interactions are specific only
for living creatures.

【Both agree and disagree, whether information exists only in living
creatures has been discussed numberless time in FIS.】

 "Does the moon exist when no one sees it?" 

Yes, it exists, but it doesn't know anything about itself as well as it is
not recognized as an object by other objects.
The same is valid for all objects in the nature.

【Fundamental Information Studies cannot violate the principles of quantum
mechanics. Instead, we can draw inspiration from there.】

Finally, I could not understand what means“the black hole information is
physical”.
Please, can you describe the “physical information”.
Is it the same as the reflection i.e. some structural or functional changes
after physical, chemical or mechanical interactions?

【When a physical object was reflected by any reflector, we say that the
information is physical. In my deep statement, first, it is physical, and
second, it is human. For example, genetic information, which is cellular
(and, of course, physical, molecular...) But it's also human.】

【These discussions relate to a basic concept that I put forward to
distinguish different information and different informatics: INFORWARE.
Which are deeply described in my book "Information Science: Concept, System
and Prospect (Beijing, 2016, Science Press, Chinese Edition)".】

【This is my second post this week, and according to FIS, I can only reply
to one post later.】

Best wishes,

Xueshan

From: Xueshan Yan <mailto:yxs at pku.edu.cn>  

Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 4:13 AM

To: FIS <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>  

Subject: Re: [Fis] black hole and information

Dear Krassimir,

Very sorry for my late reply.

1. Yes, your statement "The Nobel Prize is given to researchers but not to
the Black hole." is more precise than my "This year's Nobel Prize in physics
goes to black hole research".

2. "Without observer there is no black hole entropy, there is no
information." Inadvertently, you have raised a quantum mechanical question
of information. If we can remember, Einstein and Bohr have a long debate
that has an essential impact on quantum mechanics. That is "Does the moon
exist when no one sees it?" If there isn’t any human observer, does "black
hole entropy or information" exist? I don't know.

3. "Comet A can transmits information to comet B", this information about
the behavior of the two comets greatly enriches our understanding of
astrophysics. Here, the first information is physical and the second is
human. Therefore, in my immature view, your "Consciousness is needed to
reflect reality and to assume some reflections as information." is a human
informatics problem, while the black hole information is physical.

Karl's prediction is a great encouragement to us and will come true soon,
let's be ready to accept the prize next year or later.

Best wishes,

Xueshan

From: fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es>
<fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> > On
Behalf Of Krassimir Markov
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 10:18 PM
To: yxs at pku.edu.cn <mailto:yxs at pku.edu.cn> ; FIS Group <fis at listas.unizar.es
<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es> >
Subject: Re: [Fis] black hole and information

Dear Xueshan,

I have only one remark.
The Nobel Prize is given to researchers but not to the Black hole and not to
any other object in the Cosmos!

Without observer there is no Black hole entropy, there is no information.

So, the consciousness is needed to reflect reality and to assume some
reflections as information.

Friendly greetings

Krassimir

From:  <mailto:yxs at pku.edu.cn> Xueshan Yan 

Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2020 3:37 PM

To:  <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es> FIS Group 

Subject: [Fis] black hole and information

Dear colleagues，

This year's Nobel Prize in physics goes to black hole research today. When
the curvature of space-time of a celestial body is so large that even light
cannot escape from its event horizon, we call it a black hole. I. Once a
black hole is formed, except for mass, angular momentum, and electric
charge, all the previous material properties as objects disappear; II. The
horizon area of the black hole is equal to its entropy (entropy equals
negative information). These two issues form a close relationship between
the research of black hole and information. The follow-up effect of this
year's Nobel Prize in physics may lead to further thinking on the
information in the future by astrophysicists, and lay a reverie foundation
for the informational interpretation of matter several years later.

Best wishes and health,

Xueshan

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