[Fis] The 10 Principles

Thu Oct 8 21:37:57 CEST 2020

Dear FIS Colleagues,

Fantastic Karl's optimism! At least we deserve the Ig Nobel Prize for 
these 25 years! The pity we still have disarray on how to slice the 
pizza, how to seat on the table, how to organize the cuisine, the 
ingredients... Well, but we have fun!

Regarding Jerry's below, I will try to produce simple responses, 
although what he asks demands lengthy comments.

> While I applaud the effort to construct a theory of information, I 
> believe the principles introduced below need to be significantly 
> sharpened if the theory is to be developed into biological information 
> theory.  At least, from the narratives of the terms ‘distinction’ and 
> ‘adjacent’.
>
> From a logical perspective of science, the term “informational entity” 
> appears to be a teleological or cybernetic entity, that is necessarily 
> searching for satisfaction of a need.  Such that the distinction is a 
> “difference that makes a difference”?
>
> Is this the intended meaning of the term?
>
/I quite agree with the needed sharpening. The principles refer not to 
an info theory (many are needed, perhaps with Shannon's among the 
central ones), but to an involving science. Take the example of physics, 
with so many theories within, but centrally staying with the Mechanics 
(classical, fluid, statistical, quantum). I mean, all the info stuff 
around, already produced, would greatly benefit from a general wrapping 
up. About the //the term “informational entity”, it would represent 
those entities that survive via info flows abduced from the environment, 
coupled with energy flows and with inner info flows. The initial system 
with those characteristics is the living cell. Later on there would be 
complex cells, organisms, individuals, societies, firms, institutions, 
countries... each one demanding a specific analysis. /

> Secondly, I applaud the proposal to focus on adjacency as a critical 
> attribute of information theory.  The deeper implications of this term 
> require a binary system of difference; that is, two different 
> objective “forms” are necessary.  The forms must have separate 
> identities in order for them to be adjacency to one-another.
>
> Is this the intended meaning of the term?
>
> Are these two terms embodied in the “First Principle” of Marijuan’s 
> Information theory intended to function logically as the skeleton 
> needed to transmit a informational message?
>
> Or, am I missing the point?  Adjacency could also be interpreted as 
> spatial adjacency or temporal adjacency.
>
/I cannot respond succinctly... my original intent comes from molecular 
recognition classes, which also works very well for our own perception 
(including distant sources via photons, phonons, etc.). But adjacency 
has further layers. I take set theory to establish a sort of metaphor on 
how "logical distinctions" can be extracted by a subject counting with a 
set of receptors that can be occupied by different presences or 
signs--not necessarily binary. Then those distinctions circulate--are 
propagated-- so that the system inner workings can elaborate inferences 
that become "meaning" (or meaninglessness). As I have said several times 
Karl's multidimensional partitions can be a very elegant "metaphor" 
(???) for elaborating logical distinctions out from a very dirty 
(overburdened) environment impinging on the receptor set. The further 
transmission within the system we can bet will have Shannonian and 
Bayesian connotations. Another Karl (Friston) becomes ad hoc here./
> As I read the “First Principle”, it could suggest that information can 
> not be a point within set theory. This suggested conclusion appears to 
> negate a role for the popular views of entropy in the transmission of 
> information.  Is that the intent?  Or, am I reading too much into this 
> very direct declarative sentence?
>
/Not necessarily. Better speaking on complementarity, I think. We look 
at the other end of the channel, the subject making sense. /
> The intended meaning of the term "“multidimensional partitions” “
> Is unclear. I presume that it refers to multiple integers each with a 
> separate and distinct pattern of partitions.  Or, does it infer a 
> single vector of n integers selected from an n-dimensional space?
>
/Homeric Karl can respond better about multidimensional partitions.../

/All the best--Pedro/

> BTW, in my view, Joseph’s comment on “informationing” is spot on (if I 
> presume that it is effectively synonymous with “informing”.)
>
> Cheers
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>> On Sep 15, 2020, at 7:37 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan 
>> <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>>
>> As promised I bring a new version of the 10 info principles (IPs). 
>> Just the first two ones.
>>
>> As you have seen in Krassimir's and Marcin's messages, hopefully we 
>> will have a specific FIS participation in IS4SI virtual meeting... So 
>> here there are those two points:
>>
>> *1. Information is distinction on an /adjacent /difference.*
>>
>> **
>>
>> *2. Information processes consist in organized action upon 
>> differences collected onto structures, patterns, sequences, messages, 
>> or flows.*
>>
>> Here, the *distinction* term refers to the capabilities of the 
>> subject or informational entity that is engaged in the exploration of 
>> events or signals in its immediate environment. The subject extracts 
>> logical distinctions out from the differences in the materiality of 
>> those events. A minimalist scheme of distinctional logic based on 
>> multidimensional partitions can be applied, as was discussed by this 
>> author (Marijuán et al., 1998). It is based on the logic of 
>> multidimensional partitions developed by Karl Javorsky, explaining 
>> how finally a consistent skeleton of logical “distinctions” may be 
>> obtained out from the elements composing the difference detected or 
>> interacted by the subject.
>>
>> The guiding idea is that, by following that logic (in itself based on 
>> a few principles), one can apply “multidimensional partitions” as 
>> formal descriptors of the discrete messages or the signalling flows. 
>> And that skeleton of partitions is what “receiving the information” 
>> preliminarily implies along this restricted communication logics. It 
>> is about how the informational entity may create streams of 
>> relationships associated to the material differences in the impinging 
>> signalling flows or discrete messages.
>>
>> The *adjacent* term refers to the physical contact to be achieved 
>> between the signalling event and the subject, and the need by the 
>> latter of counting with sensory elements or with excitatory surfaces 
>> to be physically impinged upon by the incoming signals. In living 
>> cells, information arrives via particles, molecules, atoms, photons, 
>> or phonons that impinge on specialized receptors. It is the same in 
>> all sensory surfaces of nervous systems.Increasing the adjacency, 
>> extending the territory covered by the communication processes with 
>> the environment is a formidable drive of biological evolution: 
>> cellular pili, flagella, cilia, arborisation of axons and dendrites, 
>> the neuronal multiplicity of sensors and receptors, specialized maps, 
>> sensing modalities, etc. By all means, adjacency is increased to the 
>> maximum supported by the biological system. We may notice something 
>> similar in human societies about the artifacts, means of 
>> communication, and scientific-technological apparatuses that 
>> transcend the immediate adjacency of subjects in the complex 
>> information flows of contemporary societies. By transcending the 
>> limits of immediate space-time adjacency, and creating *channels* 
>> that carry differences to build ad hoc distinctions, subjects may 
>> perform a myriad of further distinction extractions and cognitive 
>> operations (think of telescopes, microscopes, telegraph, etc.). By 
>> the way, curiously "channel" in the Shanonian scheme represents also 
>> that which brings information to the adjacency of the receiver.
>>
>> By the way: addenda to pont two for Krassimir: *data result from the 
>> measurement of an action* (or of an aggregate of multiple actions, or 
>> surrogates of actions).
>>
>> Best wishes to all
>>
>> --Pedro
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> -------------------------------------------------
>> Pedro C. Marijuán
>> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>>
>> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
>> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
>> -------------------------------------------------
>>
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>> 	Libre de virus. www.avast.com 
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>>
>>
>> <x-msg://28/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Fis mailing list
>> Fis at listas.unizar.es <mailto:Fis at listas.unizar.es>
>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>> ----------
>> INFORMACI�N SOBRE PROTECCI�N DE DATOS DE CAR�CTER PERSONAL
>>
>> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo 
>> gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
>> Puede encontrar toda la informaci�n sobre como tratamos sus datos en 
>> el siguiente enlace: 
>> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
>> Recuerde que si est� suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse 
>> de baja desde la propia aplicaci�n en el momento en que lo desee.
>> http://listas.unizar.es
>> ----------
>

-- 
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group

pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
-------------------------------------------------

-- 
El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electrónico en busca de virus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20201008/a8ca6093/attachment-0001.html>