[Fis] 10 Principles

Fri Jul 17 15:41:18 CEST 2020

*Information as an attribute of time and space*

There is agreement in the list, that for a focused discussion, the meaning
of the term information shall be restricted – in this chat – to
observations relating to biological processes. Common in the opinions is
that we are here not in the business of theoretical physics or molecular
geometry. On what level we understand information to be doing its work, is
chosen by the participants’ own perspectives, viewpoints and preferences.
There are degrees of delineations, and pardon me, if I attribute some ideas
to participants wrongly.

Pedro includes the processes within a system of cells, in the sense of a
self-regulating system of limits and thresholds, which maintains an
equilibrium;

Joseph reiterates that both what we describe and our ways of describing it
are subject to the same laws of logic; this is asserted by participants;
our metaphysical models necessarily repeat the basic forms, ideas,
principles – are actually based on – which rule the physical world;

Loet and Marcus point out that the model we imagine be a living one,
whatever that means;

Krassimir repeats that the most part of what we discuss is only in our head
and we should take care not to anthropomorphise that what we discuss;

Karl says that information is a part of learning, and needs the operations
of store-retrieve-compare to function in the human brain;

Bruno says that the story begins above that level up to which we can build
machines that perform all of the points listed so far.

*The accountant’s story *is hardly ever materially connected to the stories
relating to concrete things. On the other hand, the perspective of
balancing, double ledgers and transforming units while changing their forms
is equally present on each of the levels, on which information is observed
to be an actor in some processes. The accountant sees a large compendium of
rules, according to which principles units are to be transformed, and which
summations yield interpretable partial results. First, we have to agree on
the name-giving rules, like you would need to know what your accountant
means by referred income. Here, we explicate the need to agree on names
while pointing out some interpretational freedom in the picture we see,
reflecting how a reorder – a periodic change – affects the assembly of
logical primitives.

The whole system is based on *cycles*. Cycles appear as we re-sort logical
primitives from an order A into an order B. For the following example, on
which we discuss identical and different parts of the terms *time and space*,
we shall use the 16th cohort of logical primitives, which is
{*(1,1),(1,2),(2,2),…,(14,15),(15,15),(16,16)}.
*We shall note the planar position for each of the primitives on a plane.
One can reorder 136 pairs of numbers from *Seq[b,a] *into *Seq[a,b] *in 30
to 60 minutes by hand, using paper and pencil. For didactic purposes, the
reader is invited to actually reorder 136 pairs of numbers.

The *static position of the primitives* is pictured as follows:

Each dot is the place of an individual primitive. The axes are SQab and
SQba. The primitive *(k,j) *is on place

*x=seqplace(Cohort16, [ab],(k,j)),*

*y= seqplace(Cohort16, [ba],(k,j)).*

The function

*seqplace(<i>,[<order>],(<primitive>))*

returns the sequential number of *<primitive> *in Cohort Nr. *i*, (in the
collection there are *i(i+1)/2 *primitives), if the collection is sorted in
order *<order>*.

*Figure 1: primitives of C16 on their static places on [ab]**↔[ba]*

The static positions show the state of the world if no periodic changes
take place. As the Earth rotates and the Moon creates tides, it can become
of evolutionary advantage to be lined up correctly according to the
influences that prevail. That position that is natural/ideal with respect
to sunlight (linear position in sorting order *[ab]*) may be different to
the ideal/natural position with respect of the stream of the flow (linear
position in sorting order *[ba]*.)

In such a case, a reorganisation takes place among the primitives. They
each seek to reach their linear positions, which may well differ from the
neutral, static position which we have seen above. A mass migration begins,
which happens by means of *cycles.*

We see that a reorder of *(a,b),[ab]**→[ba] *happens by means of 12 cycles.

In the example, we see cycles of differing numbers of primitives in the
corpus of the cycle.

 1     4,

 2     2,

10    1,

16    2,

18    1,

30    1,

38    1.

*Figure 2: primitives of C16 building cycles on [ab]**→[ba]*

To come to the point we wish to discuss, we take two cycles and compare
them on their properties of *tact *and *step. *

One can distinguish the terms tact and step on cycles

*No 3 (blue, 18 primitives) *

*No 9 (red, 16 primitives).*

The number of primitives (=cardinality of the corpus) is called the number
of *tacts* until element *ai *reappears again in the sequence *a1**→ … ai **→
 a1.* This is a *temporal *measure. It takes 18 and 16 tacts until any
individual primitive belonging to cycles 3, 9 respectively, reappears.

The distance covered and the position and portion of the plane occupied by
the cycles is a *spatial *measure, which is derived from (sum of) the
numbers of steps needed to cover the distance between two primitives on a
Descartes plane.

Apparently, the answers to “*When *will primitive *ai *reappear again?” and
“*After how many steps *will primitive *ai *reappear again?” can yield
different results. The terms ‘velocity’ and ‘density’ can be defined by
means of, and ideal/natural values can be read off this table.

The *inbuilt eccentricity* of the logical system can be provided for, as
one introduces expectations derived from the number of tacts regarding the
number of steps, and parallelly, expectations derived from the number of
steps regarding the number of tacts.

Humans appear to possess an inner compass regarding the expected weight of
something they will lift for the first time. Things obviously have a
property of being heavy to differing degrees. (Babies rattling their rattle
learn this.) This physical property of things may be imagined to have a
representation in our nervous system, which has learnt what to expect. The
possibility of creating such a measure (an inner faculty to imagine an
object, together with its imagined usual (expected) weight) shows that
there is a basic property in the organisation of our concepts, which allows
for ideas of density to be connected to ideas of a spatial volume. It could
well be, that we basically refer to the properties of objects to be of
differently many steps and tacts as we speak of differing concepts and
properties of *mass.*

*Information *in the sense of a deviation to expectations is with us since
ever, beginning from earlier than *a=a. *We give names to its differing
forms. In this example, it has two forms: either something is too heavy for
how it is big, or the thing is too small for how heavy it is. The
primitives spend too much time for walking around so much, or for the
results of all that walking, the primitives could have taken less time, if
they had speeded up. The two terms do not agree wholly, and the deviations
of the actual facts to the expectations is also an inbuilt fact of the
system. In this sense, even inanimate objects can ‘carry information’.

Karl

PS: For the case that the pictures do not come over the firewall at
Zaragoza U, this essay shall also be uploaded to academia.edu and research
gate.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343017249_FIS_Information_as_an_attribute_of_time_and_space

https://www.academia.edu/43645931/Information_as_an_attribute_of_time_and_space

Am Do., 16. Juli 2020 um 13:01 Uhr schrieb Marcus Abundis <55mrcs en gmail.com
>:

> Hi Pedro,
>
> From your 11 July post . . .
> > The genuine properties of information appear with life: the capability
> to persist <
> > and react and relate according to inner drives unseen in inanimate
> matter.<
> – This "informational way of existence" (as you say), I typify as
> 'adaptive logic'; an equal concept that I hope we may agree on.
>
> With that as background, in your 11 and 14 July posts there are some key
> points I wish to address:
> – Your 11 July post shows your bias to LIFE (agency), which *in itself* is
> fine and I have no problem with. But I have also seen earlier notes from
> you elsewhere (and implied above) where you seem to insist LIFE's
> informatic expressions be held above all else – I paraphrase – 'LIFE is
> Primary in ALL informational respects!' Is this fair to say, does this
> indeed reflect your view? This view of yours seems clear to me from prior
> exchanges, but I do not want to put words in your mouth. Also, you are not
> alone in taking this view. It is important to be clear about this issue of
> Primacy, and your position on the matter . . . as it often seems to
> influence the nature of FIS exchanges (re Loet's 14 July note).
>
> – If you see LIFE as Primary in all informational respects, I disagree
> with this (as you know). To say LIFE is Primary ignores Evolution by
> Natural Selection (EvNS) which ultimately defines what all LIFE looks like
> – what is extant, what Lives and what is Extinct/Dead. In turn, EvNS is
> guided by indifferent 'selection forces' (purifying, divisive, and
> directional) which are themselves ultimately 'inanimate' [unless you
> subscribe to super-naturalism?]. As such, the inanimate defines what the
> animate is: the INANIMATE is Primary in guiding what the ANIMATE *might*
> be, but the inverse is not true. LIFE does not direct atoms and elementary
> particles in how they might behave, or what they might *be*. Still, this
> does not *by any means* negate LIFE's vital informatics – it merely places
> LIFE in an adaptive role, that of adapting to inanimate (but still
> dynamic/chaotic) matter. This schism between what is Primary and what is
> Secondary, I think, must first be resolved if FIS is to ever advance on its
> presumed 'foundational' goal.
>
> – To be clear when we say inanimate we mean 'lacking conscious will or
> power (survival intent) in manifest acts and deeds'. But inanimate does NOT
> mean lacking force or energy in the underlying dynamics of EvNS. It is more
> that simple atoms, etc. do not bother with adaptive survival, but LIFE is
> mostly concerned with survival . . . given its relatively 'higher-order'
> vulnerable complexity.
>
> – Lastly, you alternatively speak of 'points' and 'principles' which are
> entirely different things (which I am sure you know). Still, I am unsure if
> the list you offer is meant to convey 'points' or 'principles'? Would you
> please clarify this. As 'points' it seems little new is added. I do not see
> how point 1 significantly improves Donald MacKay's “Information is a
> distinction that makes a difference” or Bateson's 'a difference that makes
> a difference' – could you offer some clarifying examples, or a bit more
> detail? The 'adjacent' role you name in point 1 is in scare quotes and
> unspecific. I do not address later points, as I presume they are shown in a
> step-wise manner, and I must agree the first point before focusing on later
> points.
>
> Marcus
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 2:30 PM Pedro C. Marijuan <
> pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es> wrote:
>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> Thanks for the comments. I have tried to be more inclusive in the new
>> point 2.
>> Also, Point 1 has been slightly modified reminding an old comment from
>> Lars (that info always goes "by contact")
>> Other changes, in point 3 now, can be justified as follows:
>> The fact that biological self-production either in bacteria or in
>> organisms is accompanied respectively by a "bacterial signaling system" or
>> by a "central nervous system" tells us that the way of life, the adaptation
>> to the niche, always needs the development of ad hoc informational
>> detectors. Otherwise the life cycle becomes "blind", truncated and unable
>> to advance towards completion. At the same time, inside every cell, inside
>> every organism, there is an internal information flow related to its own
>> self-production. For instance in a living cell, the self-production may
>> imply: expression, copying, translation, genetic code, modification codes,
>> degradation... While the signaling flow may imply: signal generation,
>> emission, transmission channel, reception, decoding/processing, meaning
>> elaboration, response...  Both information flows, the external and the
>> internal, become intertwined, densely mixed, at all scales of biological
>> organization. Let us further emphasize point 1, for all these information
>> processes imply a physical contact, as they always have to impinge on the
>> system receptors or sensory surfaces.
>>
>> So, points 1 to 5 could read as follows:
>>
>> 1. Information as such: distinction of an "adjacent" difference.
>>
>> 2. Information processes: organized action upon distinctions collected
>> into structures, patterns, sequences, messages, or flows.
>>
>> 3. Integrated information processes of life: information flows, both
>> from the external signaling environment and from the internal productive
>> environment, are  tightly integrated along the advancement of the adaptive
>> life cycle --they regularly anticipate, shape, and mix up with the
>> accompanying energy flows.
>>
>> 4. Biological complexity: communication/information exchanges among
>> adaptive life-cycles underlie the complexity of biological organization at
>> all scales.
>>
>> 5. Biological cognition: cognition, meaning and knowledge can be
>> identified within the integrated signaling/productive molecular
>> mechanisms that adaptively transform the cell-cycle trajectory as well as
>> in the action/perception cycle of central nervous systems.
>>
>> The other 5 points regarding human & social aspects may be discussed
>> later on.
>>
>> All the best
>> --Pedro
>>
>>
>>
>> El 13/07/2020 a las 2:01, Koichiro Matsuno escribió:
>>
>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 5:14 AM, Krassimir Markov wrote:  I am not sure
>> that all colleagues agree that information does not exist out of the LIFE
>> sphere.
>>
>>
>>
>> This observation should stand alone only when “all colleagues” are the
>> inhabitants outside the LIFE sphere.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Koichiro Matsuno
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Fis <fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es> <fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es> *On
>> Behalf Of *Krassimir Markov
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 13, 2020 5:14 AM
>> *To:* 'fis' <fis en listas.unizar.es> <fis en listas.unizar.es>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] 10 Principles
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Pedro and FIS Colleagues,
>>
>> I see that maybe INFORMATION and LIFE are interconnected.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I am not sure that all colleagues agree that information
>> does not exist out of the LIFE sphere.
>>
>> Because of this, the first point I expect to reflect the correspondence
>> between information and life.
>>
>> Friendly greetings
>>
>> Krassimir
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> -------------------------------------------------
>> Pedro C. Marijuán
>> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>> pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.eshttp://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
>> -------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
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