[Fis] 10 Principles

Wed Jul 15 06:42:03 CEST 2020

Cari colleghi,
non vi è niente a questo mondo che non sia frutto del PROCESSO DI
TRAS-IN-FORMAZIONE, a partire dal Big Bang.
Se si considera solo l'informazione genetica o eco-biologica, che fine
fanno l'informazione termodinamica (dis-equilibrio o neg-entropia),
l'informazione ermeneutica (semiotico-semantica o storico culturale) e
l'informazione matematica (entropia shannoniana o fuzzy)? Ne Il cammino
degli uomini. Verso l'economia della salvezza o la salvezza dell'economia
(Aracne editrice, Roma, 2018), si veda il capitolo:

13. La funzione-processo della comunicazione dà forma e sostanza
all'esistenza e alla conoscenza e di-pende dalla fondamentale legge
dell'entropia/neg-entropia: duplice verità che rinnova la vita e influenza
la civiltà del futuro o il futuro della civiltà.

 Avevo riassunto-riepilogato il mio pensiero nell'e-mail del primo luglio,
ma non ha avuto successo.
Ho inventato una NUOVA ECONOMIA proprio in-centrandola sul processo di
tras-in-formazione e su una TEORIA DEL VALORE che considera tutte e quattro
le categorie di informazione suddette. Insomma non v'ha niente nel mondo
che possa fare a meno della FORMA DEL VALORE O DEL VALORE DELLA FORMA
forma.
Perchè sfuggire alla LEGGE DELLE LEGGi dell'INFORMAZIONE che non esclude
niente o include tutto?
Che fine fa l'ARMONIA DEL SAPERE o IL SAPERE DELL'ARMONIA?
Qual è il senso della partecipazione di cultori di discipline diverse al
confronto-discussione Fis, costituente una grande ricchezza, ancorchè basata
sull'armonia del disaccordo?.
Con grande rispetto per tutti, unito al grazie per quel che mi avete fatto
apprendere e conoscere, Vi invio un abbraccio affettuoso.
Francesco

Il giorno mar 14 lug 2020 alle ore 23:32 Christophe Menant <
christophe.menant en hotmail.fr> ha scritto:

> Dear Loet,
> Modifying your wording from “life-processes” to “processes managed by
> living entities” allows to consider the content of books (their writing,
> printing, storage and readings) as meaningful information. And also include
> artificial agents which are managed (created and used) by living entities
> (us humans).
> This supports Gordana’s comment on meaningful information always being
> about something for an agent. Let’s keep in mind that meaningful
> information exists only by and for agents (natural and artificial).
> In addition, the generation of meaningful information can probably be
> positioned in a wide horizon of agency from a pre-biotic world to a
> possible post human one (*https://philpapers.org/rec/MENICA-2
> <https://philpapers.org/rec/MENICA-2>*).
> There is a lot to do with these subjects.
> Best regards
> Christophe
>
> ------------------------------
> *De :* Fis <fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es> de la part de Loet Leydesdorff <
> loet en leydesdorff.net>
> *Envoyé :* mardi 14 juillet 2020 15:50
> *À :* Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner en bluewin.ch>; fis en listas.unizar.es <
> fis en listas.unizar.es>; Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>
> *Objet :* Re: [Fis] 10 Principles
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> Is this a coup-d'etat of the biologists? It does not follow from the role
> of information in processes of life that information is exclusively
> processed in life-processes.
>
> Let me quote Luhmann who argued against Maturana as follows:
>
> "Moreover, because it is tied to life as a mode of self-reproduction of
> autopoietic systems, the 'theory of autopoiesis does not really attain the
> level of general systems theory which includes brains and machines, psychic
> systems and social systems, societies and short-term interactions. From
> this point of view, living systems are a special type of systems. However,
> if we abstract from life and define autopoiesis as a general form of
> system-building using self-referential closure, we would have to admit that
> there are non-living autopoietic systems, different modes of autopoietic
> reproduction, and general principles of autopoietic organization which
> materialize as life, but also in other modes of circularity and
> self-reproduction. In other words, if we find non-living autopoietic
> systems in our world, then and only then will we need a truly general
> theory of autopoiesis which carefully avoids references which hold true
> only for living systems. But which attributes of autopoiesis will remain
> valid on this highest level, and which will have to be dropped on behalf of
> their connection with life?"
>
> It seems to me that one can define information more abstractly than its
> manifestation in processes of living. For example, information and its
> meaning can be archived in libraries. A librarian may hope that there are
> no insects in the books who like eating them.
>
> Best,
> Loet
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Loet Leydesdorff
>
> Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam
> Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)
>
> loet en leydesdorff.net ; http://www.leydesdorff.net/
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> of Sussex;
>
> Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ.
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> Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, ISTIC,
> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.istic.ac.cn%2FEng%2Fbrief_en.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8f6535b7eb0b4c682f5808d827fce72c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637303314442887071&sdata=Unv2ior7f18p6os%2B5y6RZzcXu3S9nNaD8IgfOPMWoH4%3D&reserved=0>
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>
> Visiting Fellow, Birkbeck
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>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Joseph Brenner" <joe.brenner en bluewin.ch>
> To: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>; "fis" <
> fis en listas.unizar.es>
> Sent: 7/14/2020 3:38:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fis] 10 Principles
>
> Dear Pedro and  FIS Colleagues,
>
> I endorse this latest statement of principles. I suggest only that in 4,
> the phrase “among adaptive life-cycles” be deleted or replaced by
> “organisms”. A ‘life-cycle’ is an abstraction that cannot and does not in
> and of itself exchange information.
>
>
>
> As to Koichiro’s comment, I propose restating it positively as follows: This
> observation can never stand alone since “all colleagues” ARE inhabitants
> INSIDE the LIFE sphere.
>
>
>
> Thank you and kind regards,
>
>
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Fis [mailto:fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Pedro C.
> Marijuan
> *Sent:* mardi, 14 juillet 2020 14:30
> *To:* 'fis'
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] 10 Principles
>
>
>
> Dear List,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the comments. I have tried to be more inclusive in the new
> point 2.
>
> Also, Point 1 has been slightly modified reminding an old comment from
> Lars (that info always goes "by contact")
>
> Other changes, in point 3 now, can be justified as follows:
>
> The fact that biological self-production either in bacteria or in
> organisms is accompanied respectively by a "bacterial signaling system" or
> by a "central nervous system" tells us that the way of life, the adaptation
> to the niche, always needs the development of ad hoc informational
> detectors. Otherwise the life cycle becomes "blind", truncated and unable
> to advance towards completion. At the same time, inside every cell, inside
> every organism, there is an internal information flow related to its own
> self-production. For instance in a living cell, the self-production may
> imply: expression, copying, translation, genetic code, modification codes,
> degradation... While the signaling flow may imply: signal generation,
> emission, transmission channel, reception, decoding/processing, meaning
> elaboration, response...  Both information flows, the external and the
> internal, become intertwined, densely mixed, at all scales of biological
> organization. Let us further emphasize point 1, for all these information
> processes imply a physical contact, as they always have to impinge on the
> system receptors or sensory surfaces.
>
>
>
> So, points 1 to 5 could read as follows:
>
>
>
> 1. Information as such: distinction of an "adjacent" difference.
>
>
>
> 2. Information processes: organized action upon distinctions collected
> into structures, patterns, sequences, messages, or flows.
>
>
>
> 3. Integrated information processes of life: information flows, both from
> the external signaling environment and from the internal productive
> environment, are  tightly integrated along the advancement of the adaptive
> life cycle --they regularly anticipate, shape, and mix up with the
> accompanying energy flows.
>
>
>
> 4. Biological complexity: communication/information exchanges among
> adaptive life-cycles underlie the complexity of biological organization at
> all scales.
>
>
>
> 5. Biological cognition: cognition, meaning and knowledge can be
> identified within the integrated signaling/productive molecular mechanisms
> that adaptively transform the cell-cycle trajectory as well as in the
> action/perception cycle of central nervous systems.
>
>
>
> The other 5 points regarding human & social aspects may be discussed later
> on.
>
>
>
> All the best
>
> --Pedro
>
>
>
>
>
> El 13/07/2020 a las 2:01, Koichiro Matsuno escribió:
>
> On Monday, July 13, 2020 5:14 AM, Krassimir Markov wrote:  I am not sure
> that all colleagues agree that information does not exist out of the LIFE
> sphere.
>
>
>
> This observation should stand alone only when “all colleagues” are the
> inhabitants outside the LIFE sphere.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Koichiro Matsuno
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Fis <fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es> <fis-bounces en listas.unizar.es> *
> On Behalf Of *Krassimir Markov
> *Sent:* Monday, July 13, 2020 5:14 AM
> *To:* 'fis' <fis en listas.unizar.es> <fis en listas.unizar.es>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] 10 Principles
>
>
>
> Dear Pedro and FIS Colleagues,
>
> I see that maybe INFORMATION and LIFE are interconnected.
>
> Unfortunately, I am not sure that all colleagues agree that information
> does not exist out of the LIFE sphere.
>
> Because of this, the first point I expect to reflect the correspondence
> between information and life.
>
> Friendly greetings
>
> Krassimir
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> ----------
>
>
>
> --
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> Pedro C. Marijuán
>
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>
>
>
> pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es
>
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