[Fis] Krassimir's question about information

[Joseph Brenner]

Dear Friends,

A short dialogue:

Stan: Krassimir: "Is information primary or derived/secondary?" My (Stan's)
restatement is:  "Is information, as physical form, potential? -- or
emergent upon having an effect? This formulation shows that there is no
difference between these concepts."

Joseph: HOW is it both? What does it mean "to be both" at the same time? 

Stan: My "potential" refers to 'in itself', which (at any moment) is
timeless, and is Krassimir's "primary information". While my "having an
effect" refers to a particular moment when a primary physical form is
acting, or being acted upon, when its form may have consequences, or become
consequential. In this event its form generates "derived/secondary
information". 

Joseph: This is what requires explication and where I think Lupasco had
something to offer, in his basic principle of dynamic opposition (Stan:
generating "derived/secondary information). This is no more and no less than
that a falling object instantiates kinetic and potential energy at the same
time (Stan: That is, its primary form still exists, even if deformed),
except that real complex processes do not "fall to the bottom" (no 0 nor 1).

Stan:  Effects necessarily emerge from potentials (IF they emerge at all).
But are both potential and emergent 'at the same time' only while the
potential is unfolding: a physical situation embodies a potential, which can
inform. When/if that potential unfolds the potential is realized, and
emerges in its effects.

Joseph: I agree, but in my view your correct expression, "while the
potential is unfolding" has two significant consequences: the process is
neither instantaneous nor spontaneous. In the Lupasco view of dynamics, a
potential 'unfolds' against some actual resistance to that unfolding, and
the effects, in almost the same language, emerge, actualized, as a
consequence of that opposition. The word "only" to modify "at the same time"
is justified for simple processes which do go to an ideal limit of 0 or 1,
not for complex, informational processes. Is there an 'end' to this
dialogue?! And is information not present throughout it?

Cheers,

Joseph

 



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