[Fis] FIS discussions. Other Info Conundrums

Fri Oct 25 18:34:04 CEST 2019

Pedro, I like your hypercommunication paradox. Indeed, it would be
interesting to quantify how much information we can deal with, but it is
clear that nowadays is too much. Some websites even advice to cut on it. I
see very young people are sometimes unable to focus on anything. It's also
problematic for the brain to have a very uninformative background. As an
example out of many, it was reported by polar explorers that traveling in
the Artic in winter was a very difficult experience because of the lack of
landmarks. Some even report on some sort of blindness because of the snow
when there are no salient aspects of the landscape. Apparently, similar
effects can be obtained during meditation by repetition of certain phrases.
Some sort of emptiness. Jose can perhaps say more both on meditation and
Artic traveling.

Bruno, thank you for your theory about good parents. I am tempted to use it
with my own children. What would happen if the child allways behave badly?
According to this model we should anyway say YES sometimes (and NO to well
behaved children). Extremely interesting dynamical system !
It reminds me of a magical number Gell - Mann mentioned in its book "The
quark and the jaguar". If I remember well, during the bombing of Germany in
WWII the Royal Air Force sent sometimes planes without bombs. They were
bluffing. That created problems to the German anti-aircfaft warfare. They
didn't know when to react. According to Gell - Mann, the optimal bluffing
strategy was to use fake bombers ones every seventh on average. Apprently
there are animals using a similar strategy. A type of monkey have sentinels
watching for leopards and eagles. If they cheat, however, they can get the
food of their escaping colleagues. They do that once in a while, apprently
with probability 1/7 !  If they do more than other monkeys stop reacting to
real danger.
Best,

Ramon

On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 4:47 PM Karl Javorszky <karl.javorszky at gmail.com>
wrote:

> If we had a catechism of zaragoza, it would be getting new lines
>
> 1. There are two interacting logical systems
> 2. Information being the description of what is not here (in logical
> system A), it's being here (in logical system B) used to make us run in
> circles
> 3. Symbols always present carry no information
> 4. Symbols that refer not to states of the world are useless or worse
> 5. Useful are symbols that refer to changes in the world
> 6. Optimal useful are symbols that can be of two states (then up to 50% of
> all alternatives can be pointed out as remaining alternatives: maximal
> information content)
> 7. Useful yes practical not. A stone mason's chisel is useful when wanting
> to carve hieroglyphs, but impractical if it can only chisel 0,1.
> 8. The elementar symbols 0,1 can not be related among each other, because
> they lack properties that establish relationships.
> 9. What we look for are relationships among facts represented by symbols.
> 10. Because we agree that there are right and wrong ways to raise
> children, by depicting relationships among facts . This in a consistent
> way, so that they can understand, is the right way.
> 11. We of course assume that there are indeed relationships among facts
> (to be taught to the children), we only have issues with the language.
>
>
>
>
> jose luis perez velazquez <jlpvjlpv at gmail.com> schrieb am Fr., 25. Okt.
> 2019 16:13:
>
>> Indeed, "It takes energy/information to rise well the kids", and for
>> that matter, to do anything, for, as Ramon already pointed out a few days
>> ago, Landauer's, and possibly others' , works showed that changes in
>> information are accompanied by changes in energy... which perhaps are
>> giving us a clue as to how to proceed to resolve the "information
>> conundrum"
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free.
>> www.avast.com
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>> <#m_3310997796070476146_m_5150674347882139033_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 3:04 PM Bruno Marchal <marchal at ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jose,
>>>
>>>
>>> > On 24 Oct 2019, at 16:52, jose luis perez velazquez <
>>> jlpvjlpv at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >  Hola.  I cannot help but commenting that, regarding your point 3- The
>>> hypercommunication paradox, it is reminiscent of what we see in the nervous
>>> system, too much communication (in our case we study synchrony) is bad, too
>>> little is equally bad, healthy communication requires medium values...
>>> Ramon and I expounded this topic in the last January's New year lecture, if
>>> you may recall. I always enjoy when same phenomenon may emerge  in very
>>> different levels, in this case  from neurons to "civilised” societies
>>>
>>> This reminds me a theory I made about good and bad parents.
>>>
>>> Bad parents are those who say always “No” to their kids, or always “Yes”.
>>>
>>> Good parents are those giving a reasonable amount of (senseful) “yes”
>>> and “no”.
>>>
>>> I did not relate this with information content, but here too, things go
>>> well when the kids get a reasonable amount of mixed “yes” and “no” (high
>>> information content).
>>>
>>> To be sure there are also the ultra-bad (perverse) parents, which gives
>>> a reasonable amount of “yes” and “no”, but in a perverse way making “yes”
>>> and “no” losing their content. That case is more rare, of course.
>>>
>>> It takes energy/information to rise well the kids, but, fortunately
>>> perhaps, it takes also energy/information for destroying them. Note that
>>> only in the case of good and ultra-bad parent does the *content* of
>>> information plays a role.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Bruno Marchal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> >   Au revoir
>>> >
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