[Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 62, Issue 39
Diego Lucio Rapoport
diego.rapoport at gmail.com
Thu Nov 28 12:37:29 CET 2019
Dear Colleagues
Better than images and any other language to convey a message is music, so
in these days that the Andean people have insurrected, the piece in the link
will convey key elements of these cultures at present times. I am sure you
will not emote in anyway anything related to violence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpa-44M9NuQ
Cheers,
Diego Lucio
El jue., 28 nov. 2019 a las 6:14, <fis-request at listas.unizar.es> escribió:
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Fwd: Fis Digest, Vol 62, Issue 36 (Diego Lucio Rapoport)
> 2. Re: Fis Digest, Vol 62, Issue 36. Re: Jaime on disinformation
> (Joseph Brenner)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:27:10 -0200
> From: Diego Lucio Rapoport <diego.rapoport at gmail.com>
> To: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Subject: [Fis] Fwd: Fis Digest, Vol 62, Issue 36
> Message-ID:
> <CAOKhh+X9WaSFJ-=Bm4DrHRMtG5USfw-UN3kE_J6c8UfghvM=
> rg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The main factor, perhaps, is that of a refurbished state to operate
> restructured to incorporate civil society and operating heterarchically
> with it.
> A fundamental provision: the possibility of a retraction of empowerment of
> authorities when their contracts with the electorate fail or ceased to be
> attempted at all.
> Usage of blockchain technology for administration of a state and civil
> contracts, and for complete opening of budgets and verification of
> administrative acts.
>
> DL
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> De: <fis-request at listas.unizar.es>
> Date: mi?., 27 nov. 2019 a las 19:56
> Subject: Fis Digest, Vol 62, Issue 36
> To: <fis at listas.unizar.es>
>
>
> Send Fis mailing list submissions to
> fis at listas.unizar.es
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> fis-request at listas.unizar.es
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Fis digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: FW: The Age of Discord (Pedro C. Marijuan)
> 2. Re: The Age of Discord. The Foundations of DIS-information
> Science (Joseph Brenner)
> 3. Re: The Age of Discord. The Foundations of DIS-information
> Science (Terrence W. DEACON)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:42:10 +0100
> From: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
> To: Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com>, fis at listas.unizar.es
> Subject: Re: [Fis] FW: The Age of Discord
> Message-ID: <cf675d1b-6ba4-32ca-43a3-1bd2e1b83563 at aragon.es>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Dear Howard and FIS colleagues,
>
> (I think your interesting response below did not enter into the
> list--other parties should read it before these lines).
>
> Curiously you do not develop there the "yes" side of your reasoning
> regarding the role of Internet & mobiles.
>
> It is unfulfilled expectations the main factor? Maybe, but only
> partially, for they have to be accompanied by deep social crisis, by
> efficient means of communication, and by a modicum of rebel
> organization. Otherwise the revolts do not ignite or do not conduce to
> anything. In 1848 there was a radical capitalist transformation and the
> beginning of the proletarian insurrection. Mass migrations to city
> slums, lots of poverty coupled to ancient regime constraints, with
> plenty of pamphlets and newspapers of all kinds circulating, and new
> organizations of both bourgeois and proletarian orientation. Previously,
> both the scientific revolution and the political revolution had been
> shaking the world, both the brainchild of the printing press...
>
> So, I much emphasize "means of communication" (in Iran 1979 it was not
> books but clandestine cassettes circulating among Mosques). These means
> represent the "plus" without which revolts cannot ignite or propagate.
> Therefore the fight to tip the balance between
> information/disinformation in the own benefit, by both defenders and
> contenders, is essential to frame the resulting expectations and
> frustrations. What Joseph and Terry have just argued. He who establishes
> the "truth" of the masses wins.
>
> And in our times it is the new media which are bringing an unexpected,
> never seen panorama of global connectivity, irreflexive mentality, and
> internecine division within societies, coupled with the diminished,
> frustrated expectations of large fractions of Western population (middle
> class, proletarians) right in front of the new mega-rich. This felt
> inequality and a sense of immediate ecological catastrophe, and aired
> gender grievances, are igniting today's well connected masses...
> towards? Who knows. This may be connected with Diego's and Karl's
> reflections.
>
> Best--Pedro
>
>
> 11/2019 a las 2:24, Howard Bloom escribi?:
> > pedro, thanks for this.
> >
> > we are in a time of paradox. with street demonstrations in Asia, the
> > Middle East, Europe, and South America.
> >
> > do these depend on the internet?? yes and no.? remember, in 1848 there
> > were roughly 57 revolutions worldwide, and there was no internet.?
> > even though there was the telegraph.
> >
> > remember the j curve.? when expectations are raised, then not met, we
> > have revolt in the streets.
> >
> > ironically, it's good times that raise expectations.? so good times
> > crimped by a momentary downturn can lead to street demonstrations.? it
> > happened in france in 1788 when bread prices went up. and it happened
> > in iran in 1979.
> >
> > frankly, we need a theory of expectations, a theory of the role that
> > future projection plays in our lives, in our biology...and in the
> > forces of history.
> >
> > with warmth and oomph--howard
> >
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Mariju?n
> Grupo de Bioinformaci?n / Bioinformation Group
>
> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> -------------------------------------------------
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 22:29:12 +0100
> From: "Joseph Brenner" <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
> To: <annette.grathoff at is4si.org>, <deacon at berkeley.edu>
> Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Subject: Re: [Fis] The Age of Discord. The Foundations of
> DIS-information Science
> Message-ID: <B8F3862541724D52A4248EEB0DB62781 at LAPTOPR7Q1BSBB>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>
> I thank both those of you who commented and those who did not. I would like
> to understand the latter - why there were only 6 responses: was my
> formulation in fact too 'political'? Do people think that negative things
> like disinformation don't require analysis? The key things I learned:
>
>
>
> Annette:
>
> Three clear contributions:
>
> 1) Understanding disinformation and misinformation is part of a full
> conceptualization of information.
>
> 2) Principles applying to them may have essential implications for the
> underlying physics (and other sciences).
>
> 3) We should list again the things we do not understand as a key part of
> our
> strategy.
>
>
>
> Jaime:
>
> A melancholy posting. I had thought human beings possessed recursive levels
> of cognitive processing such that even disinformation and selfish behavior
> are the not the results of blind instinct alone. When those capacities
> atrophy . . .
>
>
>
> Krassimir:
>
> 1) The strengths and weaknesses of what it is to be human.
>
> 2) Avoid lies and liar paradoxes. They are binary 'traps' for thought.
>
>
>
> Terry:
>
> Thank you. Clearly,
>
> 1) Normative aspects of information should be an essential part of a full
> scientific conceptualization of it.
>
> 2) Lets start with just one way to mitigate the operation of
> disinformation.
>
>
>
> Joseph:
>
> I mention a term I just heard for the first time on Swiss TV - infobesity.
>
> We need an informational biotope to treat this.
>
>
>
> I look forward to a next round, even though this is not a formal discussion
> topic.
>
>
>
> Best wishes.
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:55:49 -0800
> From: "Terrence W. DEACON" <deacon at berkeley.edu>
> To: Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
> Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>, Annette Grathoff
> <annette.grathoff at is4si.org>
> Subject: Re: [Fis] The Age of Discord. The Foundations of
> DIS-information Science
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAOJbPRKSqSUgQwrpaGd+JMew31Ef+yfKp1BG6XCOe_-bmDTf1g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> As a starting point I recommend a book just out by Frederik Stjernfelt
> & Anne Mette Lauritzen
> titled "Your Post has been removed"
> It is available free online as a pdf
> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-030-25968-6.pdf
>
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 1:29 PM Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear Colleagues,
> >
> >
> >
> > I thank both those of you who commented and those who did not. I would
> > like to understand the latter - why there were only 6 responses: was my
> > formulation in fact too ?political?? Do people think that negative things
> > like disinformation don?t require analysis? The key things I learned:
> >
> >
> >
> > Annette:
> >
> > Three clear contributions:
> >
> > 1) Understanding disinformation and misinformation is part of a full
> > conceptualization of information.
> >
> > 2) Principles applying to them may have essential implications for the
> > underlying physics (and other sciences).
> >
> > 3) We should list again the things we do *not *understand as a key part
> > of our strategy.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jaime:
> >
> > A melancholy posting. I had thought human beings possessed recursive
> > levels of cognitive processing such that even disinformation and selfish
> > behavior are the not the results of blind instinct alone. When those
> > capacities atrophy . . .
> >
> >
> >
> > Krassimir:
> >
> > 1) The strengths and weaknesses of what it is to be human.
> >
> > 2) Avoid lies *and *liar paradoxes. They are binary ?traps? for thought.
> >
> >
> >
> > Terry:
> >
> > Thank you. Clearly,
> >
> > 1) Normative aspects of information should be an essential part of a full
> > scientific conceptualization of it.
> >
> > 2) Lets start with just *one *way to mitigate the operation of
> > disinformation.
> >
> >
> >
> > Joseph:
> >
> > I mention a term I just heard for the first time on Swiss TV ?
> infobesity.
> >
> > We need an informational biotope to treat this.
> >
> >
> >
> > I look forward to a next round, even though this is not a formal
> > discussion topic.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best wishes.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Professor Terrence W. Deacon
> University of California, Berkeley
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>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis at listas.unizar.es
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Fis Digest, Vol 62, Issue 36
> ***********************************
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 09:13:23 +0100
> From: "Joseph Brenner" <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
> To: "'Jaime Cardenas-Garcia'" <jfcardenasgarcia at gmail.com>, "'Diego
> Lucio Rapoport'" <diego.rapoport at gmail.com>
> Cc: 'fis' <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Subject: Re: [Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 62, Issue 36. Re: Jaime on
> disinformation
> Message-ID: <8788A5265057487D8BEC673566DEA7E9 at LAPTOPR7Q1BSBB>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dear Jaime,
>
>
>
> I apologize for the appearance of a personal criticism, when none was
> intended. I only wished to point that the behavior of animals who rob the
> nests of another species is genetically programmed. This cannot be compared
> directly to that of human beings unless the latter have regressed to the
> level of such apparently selfish species. We certainly can take the
> behavior
> of social, altruistic species such as ants as models, but that is all.
>
>
>
> Regarding levels of something that could be called consciousness or
> cognition as a goal for research on lower-level species, I am afraid we
> will
> have to agree to disagree. I am not ?better? than a bacterium, and I have
> seen elsewhere proposals of pan-consciousness pushed in a way that amounts
> to disinformation.
>
>
>
> I agree with what you say in your last paragraph after ?postponed sense of
> accomplishment?, except for the last sentence. I do not think it is too
> late
> to re-interpret, say, the Leviathan of Thomas Hobbes, but I would not
> consider it ?science?. Are you, also, referring to some of the responsible
> work designated as neo-Marxism, some of which I find useful? Could you give
> some examples of the scientific studies you have in mind?
>
>
>
> Thank you and bets regards,
>
>
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Fis [mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Jaime
> Cardenas-Garcia
> Sent: jeudi, 28 novembre 2019 00:23
> To: Diego Lucio Rapoport
> Cc: fis
> Subject: Re: [Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 62, Issue 36
>
>
>
> Dear Joseph,
>
> I don?t understand your qualification of ?A melancholy posting?. Nor, ?When
> those capacities atrophy . . .?
>
> As regards your statement: ?I had thought human beings possessed recursive
> levels of cognitive processing such that even disinformation and selfish
> behavior are the not the results of blind instinct alone?. Is this wishful
> thinking?
>
> You don?t judge someone by what they say about themselves, but rather by
> their actions and consequences of their actions. It is so with regard to
> human beings. We can say many things about ourselves, but this does not
> imply they are true. That we have souls. That we are somehow better than
> other living beings since we possess ?? recursive levels of cognitive
> processing such that even disinformation and selfish behavior are the not
> the results of blind instinct alone.? That to better understand our
> cognitive superiority we should search for a ?minimal level of cognition?
> in
> other living beings such as bacteria. The list is endless. I would argue
> instead for a postponed sense of accomplishment,
>
>
>
> since with our apparently endless need for disinformation/misinformation we
> seem to be in hot pursuit of our own demise by way of climate change and
> technological doomsday advances. Ideas/actions that tend to originate in
> the
> so-called developed world, who are the contributors to most of the causes
> of
> such looming tragedies.
>
> Disinformation/misinformation IMHO is the solution to the problem of
> political/economical domination by a small minority (the notorious 1% that
> own ~50% of the world?s wealth). Of course, this plays out around the world
> in different ways: Middle East; Europe; Asia; North, Central and South
> America; South Pacific; and Africa. It has been a fruitful field of
> scientific study for many years now, maybe even centuries, with the
> specific
> purpose of keeping the majority of the world?s population in their place.
> If
> FIS wants to get into this game, it is late at best.
>
> Terry?s suggestion seems worthy of pursuit.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jaime
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 6:09 PM Diego Lucio Rapoport
> <diego.rapoport at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Colleagues
>
>
>
> Following the ensuing discussions now rounded up by Pedro, it very much
> seems that the issue is whoever establishes a narrative as the real one,
> for
> which actions are produced to impose it, gets the upper hand. When this is
> failing, or as a preparation for it, it is the emotional impression which
> is
> the early priority towards the later cooking up of the narrative prior to
> its selling.
>
> So, fear is to be created and made as the primal cognitive setting. This is
> the current plan.
>
> The new generation in Chile puts it thus: "they took away from us
> everything, to the point that with it they took away our fear too". To
> counter it, what is being attempted is to produce an oversaturation of
> negativity, a wearing out towards inducing acceptation.
>
>
>
> This is what was tried in Argentina, but failed due to the ruined economy
> at
> the fastest speed ever, with the main factor for the change the
> reappearance
> of a united force that historically has been cyclically enpowered and
> repressed the Peronists,
>
>
>
> Rather than a political party it is a movement with a popular base that
> spontaneously appeared at the end of WWII having a nationalist general for
> leader, Peron (half Indian)
>
> It presently has sectors of the middle classes for new support, They
> usually
> voted for the liberals who were the main support for the now outgoing
> neoliberals, and see themselves in dire poverty.
>
>
>
> In Brasil it was Getulio Vargas at the same time coinciding with WWII who
> created the basis for modern Brasil, its legal system and industry, which
> is
> presently being teared appart and put to sale. The same situation in
> Colombia. In Latin America it is the state, at times the sole agent
> together
> with industrial sectors of its making, and workers movements, which
> institutionalizes the very possibility of construing a nation and a social
> contract. The modern state with its late 19th century inception,
> refurbished, with the remarkable phenomenon of the liberals destroying it
>
>
>
> Diego Lucio
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El mi?., 27 nov. 2019 a las 19:56, <fis-request at listas.unizar.es>
> escribi?:
>
> Send Fis mailing list submissions to
> fis at listas.unizar.es
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> fis-request at listas.unizar.es
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> fis-owner at listas.unizar.es
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Fis digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: FW: The Age of Discord (Pedro C. Marijuan)
> 2. Re: The Age of Discord. The Foundations of DIS-information
> Science (Joseph Brenner)
> 3. Re: The Age of Discord. The Foundations of DIS-information
> Science (Terrence W. DEACON)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:42:10 +0100
> From: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
> To: Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com>, fis at listas.unizar.es
> Subject: Re: [Fis] FW: The Age of Discord
> Message-ID: <cf675d1b-6ba4-32ca-43a3-1bd2e1b83563 at aragon.es>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Dear Howard and FIS colleagues,
>
> (I think your interesting response below did not enter into the
> list--other parties should read it before these lines).
>
> Curiously you do not develop there the "yes" side of your reasoning
> regarding the role of Internet & mobiles.
>
> It is unfulfilled expectations the main factor? Maybe, but only
> partially, for they have to be accompanied by deep social crisis, by
> efficient means of communication, and by a modicum of rebel
> organization. Otherwise the revolts do not ignite or do not conduce to
> anything. In 1848 there was a radical capitalist transformation and the
> beginning of the proletarian insurrection. Mass migrations to city
> slums, lots of poverty coupled to ancient regime constraints, with
> plenty of pamphlets and newspapers of all kinds circulating, and new
> organizations of both bourgeois and proletarian orientation. Previously,
> both the scientific revolution and the political revolution had been
> shaking the world, both the brainchild of the printing press...
>
> So, I much emphasize "means of communication" (in Iran 1979 it was not
> books but clandestine cassettes circulating among Mosques). These means
> represent the "plus" without which revolts cannot ignite or propagate.
> Therefore the fight to tip the balance between
> information/disinformation in the own benefit, by both defenders and
> contenders, is essential to frame the resulting expectations and
> frustrations. What Joseph and Terry have just argued. He who establishes
> the "truth" of the masses wins.
>
> And in our times it is the new media which are bringing an unexpected,
> never seen panorama of global connectivity, irreflexive mentality, and
> internecine division within societies, coupled with the diminished,
> frustrated expectations of large fractions of Western population (middle
> class, proletarians) right in front of the new mega-rich. This felt
> inequality and a sense of immediate ecological catastrophe, and aired
> gender grievances, are igniting today's well connected masses...
> towards? Who knows. This may be connected with Diego's and Karl's
> reflections.
>
> Best--Pedro
>
>
> 11/2019 a las 2:24, Howard Bloom escribi?:
> > pedro, thanks for this.
> >
> > we are in a time of paradox. with street demonstrations in Asia, the
> > Middle East, Europe, and South America.
> >
> > do these depend on the internet?? yes and no.? remember, in 1848 there
> > were roughly 57 revolutions worldwide, and there was no internet.?
> > even though there was the telegraph.
> >
> > remember the j curve.? when expectations are raised, then not met, we
> > have revolt in the streets.
> >
> > ironically, it's good times that raise expectations.? so good times
> > crimped by a momentary downturn can lead to street demonstrations.? it
> > happened in france in 1788 when bread prices went up. and it happened
> > in iran in 1979.
> >
> > frankly, we need a theory of expectations, a theory of the role that
> > future projection plays in our lives, in our biology...and in the
> > forces of history.
> >
> > with warmth and oomph--howard
> >
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Mariju?n
> Grupo de Bioinformaci?n / Bioinformation Group
>
> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <
> http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20191127/0eecc7a8/attachm
> ent-0001.html
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 22:29:12 +0100
> From: "Joseph Brenner" <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
> To: <annette.grathoff at is4si.org>, <deacon at berkeley.edu>
> Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Subject: Re: [Fis] The Age of Discord. The Foundations of
> DIS-information Science
> Message-ID: <B8F3862541724D52A4248EEB0DB62781 at LAPTOPR7Q1BSBB>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>
> I thank both those of you who commented and those who did not. I would like
> to understand the latter - why there were only 6 responses: was my
> formulation in fact too 'political'? Do people think that negative things
> like disinformation don't require analysis? The key things I learned:
>
>
>
> Annette:
>
> Three clear contributions:
>
> 1) Understanding disinformation and misinformation is part of a full
> conceptualization of information.
>
> 2) Principles applying to them may have essential implications for the
> underlying physics (and other sciences).
>
> 3) We should list again the things we do not understand as a key part of
> our
> strategy.
>
>
>
> Jaime:
>
> A melancholy posting. I had thought human beings possessed recursive levels
> of cognitive processing such that even disinformation and selfish behavior
> are the not the results of blind instinct alone. When those capacities
> atrophy . . .
>
>
>
> Krassimir:
>
> 1) The strengths and weaknesses of what it is to be human.
>
> 2) Avoid lies and liar paradoxes. They are binary 'traps' for thought.
>
>
>
> Terry:
>
> Thank you. Clearly,
>
> 1) Normative aspects of information should be an essential part of a full
> scientific conceptualization of it.
>
> 2) Lets start with just one way to mitigate the operation of
> disinformation.
>
>
>
> Joseph:
>
> I mention a term I just heard for the first time on Swiss TV - infobesity.
>
> We need an informational biotope to treat this.
>
>
>
> I look forward to a next round, even though this is not a formal discussion
> topic.
>
>
>
> Best wishes.
>
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:55:49 -0800
> From: "Terrence W. DEACON" <deacon at berkeley.edu>
> To: Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
> Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>, Annette Grathoff
> <annette.grathoff at is4si.org>
> Subject: Re: [Fis] The Age of Discord. The Foundations of
> DIS-information Science
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAOJbPRKSqSUgQwrpaGd+JMew31Ef+yfKp1BG6XCOe_-bmDTf1g at mail.gmail.com
> <mailto:
> CAOJbPRKSqSUgQwrpaGd%2BJMew31Ef%2ByfKp1BG6XCOe_-bmDTf1g at mail.gmail.c
> om> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> As a starting point I recommend a book just out by Frederik Stjernfelt
> & Anne Mette Lauritzen
> titled "Your Post has been removed"
> It is available free online as a pdf
> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-030-25968-6.pdf
>
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 1:29 PM Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear Colleagues,
> >
> >
> >
> > I thank both those of you who commented and those who did not. I would
> > like to understand the latter - why there were only 6 responses: was my
> > formulation in fact too ?political?? Do people think that negative things
> > like disinformation don?t require analysis? The key things I learned:
> >
> >
> >
> > Annette:
> >
> > Three clear contributions:
> >
> > 1) Understanding disinformation and misinformation is part of a full
> > conceptualization of information.
> >
> > 2) Principles applying to them may have essential implications for the
> > underlying physics (and other sciences).
> >
> > 3) We should list again the things we do *not *understand as a key part
> > of our strategy.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jaime:
> >
> > A melancholy posting. I had thought human beings possessed recursive
> > levels of cognitive processing such that even disinformation and selfish
> > behavior are the not the results of blind instinct alone. When those
> > capacities atrophy . . .
> >
> >
> >
> > Krassimir:
> >
> > 1) The strengths and weaknesses of what it is to be human.
> >
> > 2) Avoid lies *and *liar paradoxes. They are binary ?traps? for thought.
> >
> >
> >
> > Terry:
> >
> > Thank you. Clearly,
> >
> > 1) Normative aspects of information should be an essential part of a full
> > scientific conceptualization of it.
> >
> > 2) Lets start with just *one *way to mitigate the operation of
> > disinformation.
> >
> >
> >
> > Joseph:
> >
> > I mention a term I just heard for the first time on Swiss TV ?
> infobesity.
> >
> > We need an informational biotope to treat this.
> >
> >
> >
> > I look forward to a next round, even though this is not a formal
> > discussion topic.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best wishes.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Professor Terrence W. Deacon
> University of California, Berkeley
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> --
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> Jaime F. C?rdenas-Garc?a, PhD, PE
>
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