<div dir="ltr">The main factor, perhaps, is that of a refurbished state to operate restructured to incorporate civil society and operating heterarchically with it.<div>A fundamental provision: the possibility of a retraction of empowerment of authorities when their contracts with the electorate fail or ceased to be attempted at all.</div><div>Usage of blockchain technology for administration of a state and civil contracts, and for complete opening of budgets and verification of administrative acts.</div><div><br></div><div>DL<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>De: <span dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:fis-request@listas.unizar.es">fis-request@listas.unizar.es</a>></span><br>Date: mié., 27 nov. 2019 a las 19:56<br>Subject: Fis Digest, Vol 62, Issue 36<br>To: <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br></div><br><br>Send Fis mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: FW: The Age of Discord (Pedro C. Marijuan)<br>
2. Re: The Age of Discord. The Foundations of DIS-information<br>
Science (Joseph Brenner)<br>
3. Re: The Age of Discord. The Foundations of DIS-information<br>
Science (Terrence W. DEACON)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:42:10 +0100<br>
From: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>><br>
To: Howard Bloom <<a href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com" target="_blank">howlbloom@aol.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] FW: The Age of Discord<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:cf675d1b-6ba4-32ca-43a3-1bd2e1b83563@aragon.es" target="_blank">cf675d1b-6ba4-32ca-43a3-1bd2e1b83563@aragon.es</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
Dear Howard and FIS colleagues,<br>
<br>
(I think your interesting response below did not enter into the <br>
list--other parties should read it before these lines).<br>
<br>
Curiously you do not develop there the "yes" side of your reasoning <br>
regarding the role of Internet & mobiles.<br>
<br>
It is unfulfilled expectations the main factor? Maybe, but only <br>
partially, for they have to be accompanied by deep social crisis, by <br>
efficient means of communication, and by a modicum of rebel <br>
organization. Otherwise the revolts do not ignite or do not conduce to <br>
anything. In 1848 there was a radical capitalist transformation and the <br>
beginning of the proletarian insurrection. Mass migrations to city <br>
slums, lots of poverty coupled to ancient regime constraints, with <br>
plenty of pamphlets and newspapers of all kinds circulating, and new <br>
organizations of both bourgeois and proletarian orientation. Previously, <br>
both the scientific revolution and the political revolution had been <br>
shaking the world, both the brainchild of the printing press...<br>
<br>
So, I much emphasize "means of communication" (in Iran 1979 it was not <br>
books but clandestine cassettes circulating among Mosques). These means <br>
represent the "plus" without which revolts cannot ignite or propagate. <br>
Therefore the fight to tip the balance between <br>
information/disinformation in the own benefit, by both defenders and <br>
contenders, is essential to frame the resulting expectations and <br>
frustrations. What Joseph and Terry have just argued. He who establishes <br>
the "truth" of the masses wins.<br>
<br>
And in our times it is the new media which are bringing an unexpected, <br>
never seen panorama of global connectivity, irreflexive mentality, and <br>
internecine division within societies, coupled with the diminished, <br>
frustrated expectations of large fractions of Western population (middle <br>
class, proletarians) right in front of the new mega-rich. This felt <br>
inequality and a sense of immediate ecological catastrophe, and aired <br>
gender grievances, are igniting today's well connected masses... <br>
towards? Who knows. This may be connected with Diego's and Karl's <br>
reflections.<br>
<br>
Best--Pedro<br>
<br>
<br>
11/2019 a las 2:24, Howard Bloom escribi?:<br>
> pedro, thanks for this.<br>
><br>
> we are in a time of paradox. with street demonstrations in Asia, the <br>
> Middle East, Europe, and South America.<br>
><br>
> do these depend on the internet?? yes and no.? remember, in 1848 there <br>
> were roughly 57 revolutions worldwide, and there was no internet.? <br>
> even though there was the telegraph.<br>
><br>
> remember the j curve.? when expectations are raised, then not met, we <br>
> have revolt in the streets.<br>
><br>
> ironically, it's good times that raise expectations.? so good times <br>
> crimped by a momentary downturn can lead to street demonstrations.? it <br>
> happened in france in 1788 when bread prices went up. and it happened <br>
> in iran in 1979.<br>
><br>
> frankly, we need a theory of expectations, a theory of the role that <br>
> future projection plays in our lives, in our biology...and in the <br>
> forces of history.<br>
><br>
> with warmth and oomph--howard<br>
><br>
<br>
-- <br>
-------------------------------------------------<br>
Pedro C. Mariju?n<br>
Grupo de Bioinformaci?n / Bioinformation Group<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a><br>
-------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 22:29:12 +0100<br>
From: "Joseph Brenner" <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:annette.grathoff@is4si.org" target="_blank">annette.grathoff@is4si.org</a>>, <<a href="mailto:deacon@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">deacon@berkeley.edu</a>><br>
Cc: fis <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] The Age of Discord. The Foundations of<br>
DIS-information Science<br>
Message-ID: <B8F3862541724D52A4248EEB0DB62781@LAPTOPR7Q1BSBB><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Dear Colleagues,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I thank both those of you who commented and those who did not. I would like<br>
to understand the latter - why there were only 6 responses: was my<br>
formulation in fact too 'political'? Do people think that negative things<br>
like disinformation don't require analysis? The key things I learned: <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Annette: <br>
<br>
Three clear contributions:<br>
<br>
1) Understanding disinformation and misinformation is part of a full<br>
conceptualization of information. <br>
<br>
2) Principles applying to them may have essential implications for the<br>
underlying physics (and other sciences).<br>
<br>
3) We should list again the things we do not understand as a key part of our<br>
strategy.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Jaime:<br>
<br>
A melancholy posting. I had thought human beings possessed recursive levels<br>
of cognitive processing such that even disinformation and selfish behavior<br>
are the not the results of blind instinct alone. When those capacities<br>
atrophy . . . <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Krassimir:<br>
<br>
1) The strengths and weaknesses of what it is to be human.<br>
<br>
2) Avoid lies and liar paradoxes. They are binary 'traps' for thought.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Terry:<br>
<br>
Thank you. Clearly,<br>
<br>
1) Normative aspects of information should be an essential part of a full<br>
scientific conceptualization of it.<br>
<br>
2) Lets start with just one way to mitigate the operation of disinformation.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Joseph:<br>
<br>
I mention a term I just heard for the first time on Swiss TV - infobesity.<br>
<br>
We need an informational biotope to treat this.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I look forward to a next round, even though this is not a formal discussion<br>
topic.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best wishes. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:55:49 -0800<br>
From: "Terrence W. DEACON" <<a href="mailto:deacon@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">deacon@berkeley.edu</a>><br>
To: Joseph Brenner <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>><br>
Cc: fis <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>>, Annette Grathoff<br>
<<a href="mailto:annette.grathoff@is4si.org" target="_blank">annette.grathoff@is4si.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] The Age of Discord. The Foundations of<br>
DIS-information Science<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAOJbPRKSqSUgQwrpaGd%2BJMew31Ef%2ByfKp1BG6XCOe_-bmDTf1g@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAOJbPRKSqSUgQwrpaGd+JMew31Ef+yfKp1BG6XCOe_-bmDTf1g@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
As a starting point I recommend a book just out by Frederik Stjernfelt<br>
& Anne Mette Lauritzen<br>
titled "Your Post has been removed"<br>
It is available free online as a pdf<br>
<a href="https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-030-25968-6.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-030-25968-6.pdf</a><br>
<br>
On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 1:29 PM Joseph Brenner <<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear Colleagues,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I thank both those of you who commented and those who did not. I would<br>
> like to understand the latter - why there were only 6 responses: was my<br>
> formulation in fact too ?political?? Do people think that negative things<br>
> like disinformation don?t require analysis? The key things I learned:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Annette:<br>
><br>
> Three clear contributions:<br>
><br>
> 1) Understanding disinformation and misinformation is part of a full<br>
> conceptualization of information.<br>
><br>
> 2) Principles applying to them may have essential implications for the<br>
> underlying physics (and other sciences).<br>
><br>
> 3) We should list again the things we do *not *understand as a key part<br>
> of our strategy.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Jaime:<br>
><br>
> A melancholy posting. I had thought human beings possessed recursive<br>
> levels of cognitive processing such that even disinformation and selfish<br>
> behavior are the not the results of blind instinct alone. When those<br>
> capacities atrophy . . .<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Krassimir:<br>
><br>
> 1) The strengths and weaknesses of what it is to be human.<br>
><br>
> 2) Avoid lies *and *liar paradoxes. They are binary ?traps? for thought.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Terry:<br>
><br>
> Thank you. Clearly,<br>
><br>
> 1) Normative aspects of information should be an essential part of a full<br>
> scientific conceptualization of it.<br>
><br>
> 2) Lets start with just *one *way to mitigate the operation of<br>
> disinformation.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Joseph:<br>
><br>
> I mention a term I just heard for the first time on Swiss TV ? infobesity.<br>
><br>
> We need an informational biotope to treat this.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I look forward to a next round, even though this is not a formal<br>
> discussion topic.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Best wishes.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Professor Terrence W. Deacon<br>
University of California, Berkeley<br>
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