[Fis] Fwd: Fis Digest, Vol 62, Issue 36
Diego Lucio Rapoport
diego.rapoport at gmail.com
Thu Nov 28 00:27:10 CET 2019
The main factor, perhaps, is that of a refurbished state to operate
restructured to incorporate civil society and operating heterarchically
with it.
A fundamental provision: the possibility of a retraction of empowerment of
authorities when their contracts with the electorate fail or ceased to be
attempted at all.
Usage of blockchain technology for administration of a state and civil
contracts, and for complete opening of budgets and verification of
administrative acts.
DL
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Date: mié., 27 nov. 2019 a las 19:56
Subject: Fis Digest, Vol 62, Issue 36
To: <fis at listas.unizar.es>
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: FW: The Age of Discord (Pedro C. Marijuan)
2. Re: The Age of Discord. The Foundations of DIS-information
Science (Joseph Brenner)
3. Re: The Age of Discord. The Foundations of DIS-information
Science (Terrence W. DEACON)
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:42:10 +0100
From: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
To: Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com>, fis at listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] FW: The Age of Discord
Message-ID: <cf675d1b-6ba4-32ca-43a3-1bd2e1b83563 at aragon.es>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Dear Howard and FIS colleagues,
(I think your interesting response below did not enter into the
list--other parties should read it before these lines).
Curiously you do not develop there the "yes" side of your reasoning
regarding the role of Internet & mobiles.
It is unfulfilled expectations the main factor? Maybe, but only
partially, for they have to be accompanied by deep social crisis, by
efficient means of communication, and by a modicum of rebel
organization. Otherwise the revolts do not ignite or do not conduce to
anything. In 1848 there was a radical capitalist transformation and the
beginning of the proletarian insurrection. Mass migrations to city
slums, lots of poverty coupled to ancient regime constraints, with
plenty of pamphlets and newspapers of all kinds circulating, and new
organizations of both bourgeois and proletarian orientation. Previously,
both the scientific revolution and the political revolution had been
shaking the world, both the brainchild of the printing press...
So, I much emphasize "means of communication" (in Iran 1979 it was not
books but clandestine cassettes circulating among Mosques). These means
represent the "plus" without which revolts cannot ignite or propagate.
Therefore the fight to tip the balance between
information/disinformation in the own benefit, by both defenders and
contenders, is essential to frame the resulting expectations and
frustrations. What Joseph and Terry have just argued. He who establishes
the "truth" of the masses wins.
And in our times it is the new media which are bringing an unexpected,
never seen panorama of global connectivity, irreflexive mentality, and
internecine division within societies, coupled with the diminished,
frustrated expectations of large fractions of Western population (middle
class, proletarians) right in front of the new mega-rich. This felt
inequality and a sense of immediate ecological catastrophe, and aired
gender grievances, are igniting today's well connected masses...
towards? Who knows. This may be connected with Diego's and Karl's
reflections.
Best--Pedro
11/2019 a las 2:24, Howard Bloom escribi?:
> pedro, thanks for this.
>
> we are in a time of paradox. with street demonstrations in Asia, the
> Middle East, Europe, and South America.
>
> do these depend on the internet?? yes and no.? remember, in 1848 there
> were roughly 57 revolutions worldwide, and there was no internet.?
> even though there was the telegraph.
>
> remember the j curve.? when expectations are raised, then not met, we
> have revolt in the streets.
>
> ironically, it's good times that raise expectations.? so good times
> crimped by a momentary downturn can lead to street demonstrations.? it
> happened in france in 1788 when bread prices went up. and it happened
> in iran in 1979.
>
> frankly, we need a theory of expectations, a theory of the role that
> future projection plays in our lives, in our biology...and in the
> forces of history.
>
> with warmth and oomph--howard
>
--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Mariju?n
Grupo de Bioinformaci?n / Bioinformation Group
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
-------------------------------------------------
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 22:29:12 +0100
From: "Joseph Brenner" <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
To: <annette.grathoff at is4si.org>, <deacon at berkeley.edu>
Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: [Fis] The Age of Discord. The Foundations of
DIS-information Science
Message-ID: <B8F3862541724D52A4248EEB0DB62781 at LAPTOPR7Q1BSBB>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Colleagues,
I thank both those of you who commented and those who did not. I would like
to understand the latter - why there were only 6 responses: was my
formulation in fact too 'political'? Do people think that negative things
like disinformation don't require analysis? The key things I learned:
Annette:
Three clear contributions:
1) Understanding disinformation and misinformation is part of a full
conceptualization of information.
2) Principles applying to them may have essential implications for the
underlying physics (and other sciences).
3) We should list again the things we do not understand as a key part of our
strategy.
Jaime:
A melancholy posting. I had thought human beings possessed recursive levels
of cognitive processing such that even disinformation and selfish behavior
are the not the results of blind instinct alone. When those capacities
atrophy . . .
Krassimir:
1) The strengths and weaknesses of what it is to be human.
2) Avoid lies and liar paradoxes. They are binary 'traps' for thought.
Terry:
Thank you. Clearly,
1) Normative aspects of information should be an essential part of a full
scientific conceptualization of it.
2) Lets start with just one way to mitigate the operation of disinformation.
Joseph:
I mention a term I just heard for the first time on Swiss TV - infobesity.
We need an informational biotope to treat this.
I look forward to a next round, even though this is not a formal discussion
topic.
Best wishes.
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:55:49 -0800
From: "Terrence W. DEACON" <deacon at berkeley.edu>
To: Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>, Annette Grathoff
<annette.grathoff at is4si.org>
Subject: Re: [Fis] The Age of Discord. The Foundations of
DIS-information Science
Message-ID:
<CAOJbPRKSqSUgQwrpaGd+JMew31Ef+yfKp1BG6XCOe_-bmDTf1g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
As a starting point I recommend a book just out by Frederik Stjernfelt
& Anne Mette Lauritzen
titled "Your Post has been removed"
It is available free online as a pdf
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-030-25968-6.pdf
On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 1:29 PM Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
wrote:
> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>
> I thank both those of you who commented and those who did not. I would
> like to understand the latter - why there were only 6 responses: was my
> formulation in fact too ?political?? Do people think that negative things
> like disinformation don?t require analysis? The key things I learned:
>
>
>
> Annette:
>
> Three clear contributions:
>
> 1) Understanding disinformation and misinformation is part of a full
> conceptualization of information.
>
> 2) Principles applying to them may have essential implications for the
> underlying physics (and other sciences).
>
> 3) We should list again the things we do *not *understand as a key part
> of our strategy.
>
>
>
> Jaime:
>
> A melancholy posting. I had thought human beings possessed recursive
> levels of cognitive processing such that even disinformation and selfish
> behavior are the not the results of blind instinct alone. When those
> capacities atrophy . . .
>
>
>
> Krassimir:
>
> 1) The strengths and weaknesses of what it is to be human.
>
> 2) Avoid lies *and *liar paradoxes. They are binary ?traps? for thought.
>
>
>
> Terry:
>
> Thank you. Clearly,
>
> 1) Normative aspects of information should be an essential part of a full
> scientific conceptualization of it.
>
> 2) Lets start with just *one *way to mitigate the operation of
> disinformation.
>
>
>
> Joseph:
>
> I mention a term I just heard for the first time on Swiss TV ? infobesity.
>
> We need an informational biotope to treat this.
>
>
>
> I look forward to a next round, even though this is not a formal
> discussion topic.
>
>
>
> Best wishes.
>
>
>
--
Professor Terrence W. Deacon
University of California, Berkeley
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