[Fis] Anticipatory Systems

Mon Oct 22 06:48:23 CEST 2018

Dear Pedro and colleagues,

My interest is not in levels lower than the biological, but in 
socio-cultural evolution which evolves in terms of entertaining more 
complex expectations both in our minds and in our communications (e.g., 
by using models or other abstractions--e.g., credit cards). This 
next-order cannot be reduced to the biological level which you seem to 
prioritize.

First, the cells do not communicate in the rich sense indicated, but 
these processes can be considered "as if they are a semantic domain" 
(Maturana). Second, a biological description/explanation explains at 
best "languaging", but not "language." "Languaging is a form of behavior 
attributable to agency (including cells, whales, and monkeys). Language 
is a cultural achievement which emerges within these practices and then 
feeds back and reshapes the substrate in which it emerges. The 
cybernetic principle is that construction is bottom-up, but control 
tends to be top-down.

One of the special languages is biology itself. It is highly coded 
discourse. As in other sciences, some biologists believe that their 
science more than others is grounded. The only ground we have, in my 
opinion, is the reflexivity in both languages and culture (including the 
sciences) as an interpersonal layer and in individual minds. The 
interplay between these two layers on top of the biological one enables 
us to study and explain the exchanges among us with the modesty of a 
"concrete philosophy of science" (Husserl, 1929), that is, in terms of 
resounding and conflicting intentionalities.

Best,
Loet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loet Leydesdorff

Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)

loet at leydesdorff.net <mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>; 
http://www.leydesdorff.net/
Associate Faculty, SPRU, <http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/>University of 
Sussex;

Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ. <http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/>, 
Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, ISTIC, 
<http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html>Beijing;

Visiting Fellow, Birkbeck <http://www.bbk.ac.uk/>, University of London;

http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en

------ Original Message ------
From: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
To: fis at listas.unizar.es
Sent: 10/21/2018 8:58:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] Anticipatory Systems

>Dear FIS Collegues,
>
>In my second of the week I am responding to the recent comments.
>
>To Loet: Of course there might be many "imperatives" around. Focusing 
>on the "cellular" (versus atomic or molecular ones you mention) is due 
>to several reasons: the cell contains an inner description , "coding", 
>of its active components; it changes its composition of active elements 
>according to the demands of the environment regarding the advancement 
>of its own life course; it "senses" the environment itself before 
>activating specific gene expression cascades. A watershed in signaling 
>has been the fact that hundreds of substances may be felt by "simple" 
>bacteria, which was unknown until last 15 years or so (the revolution 
>of the "one component systems"). The cell not only evolves, it also 
>"returns": all multicellular are inexorably bound to return to unicells 
>for their reproduction. It is a fascinating aspect, coupled with 
>epigenetic changes...  and together with many other recent discoveries, 
>the need of a new evolutionary theory has become deeply felt by quite 
>many researchers; besides a number of them make "informational" style 
>considerations. Well, to conclude, If any molecule or atom can do 
>similar "informational" things, please tell me. I will surrender to 
>their "imperative".
>
>To Jerry: Thanks for the appreciation. I cannot object the 
>logico-formal path you propose, but is it feasible? I really doubt that 
>a new way of thinking could emerge by logically bridging those 
>different disciplines; the magnitude is more than enormous. My argument 
>is that the most pressing problems in the informational arena 
>(susceptible of being "bridged") refer to cell-cycle logics of 
>signaling, and human life advancement and social communication 
>strategies. Narratives are not the sceintific subject per se, but only 
>in their tight relationship with the advancement of our own individual 
>lives. Tales, comedies, tragedies, operas, novels, lullabies, media, 
>today propaganda ... are natural units with different calibers that are 
>useful for different life situations. In all cases the universal 
>reference is the advancement of the life course. Stories provide us 
>with a unique mirror to the inner dynamics of human nature. The 
>scientific approach has not realized that our urge to understand the 
>world and to imagine stories is something as much governed by laws as 
>the structures of the atom or the genome (as Booker puts!). Similarly, 
>couldn't we describe as "molecular narratives" the developmental 
>trajectory of one of our cells after 30 or 40 divisions with 
>progressive modifications due to signaling, epigenesis, extracellular 
>matrix, niche, and physical force&adhesion?
>
>To Stan: Thanks for incorporating the four Aristotelian causes below. 
>But do you think they are useful or well suited for communicational 
>phenomena? Rather they respond better to the single agent or designer 
>arranging a piece of the inanimate world to his/her plans. See the 
>traditional metaphor of the sculptor carving out the statue. But 
>communication and narratives could be different.  Seemingly they 
>respond better to questions such as: What? (Content) To whom? 
>(interlocutor) Why? (reasons or purpose) How? (style, moods, manners) 
>How long? (duration of the engagement, transitions). I think that when 
>cells indulge in their molecular narratives or when we do communicate 
>with our stories the causal analysis becomes different from the 
>Aistotelian frame. It could be a good point to search out.
>
>Best wishes to all
>--Pedro
>
>  El 19/10/2018 a las 15:49, Stanley N Salthe escribió:
>>On the topic of information as narration:
>>
>>Information as Narrative (would involve serial ‘statements’)
>>
>>Formal cause (of narrative) ...  the presence of available channels 
>>(in nature and/or culture) for informative energy flows
>>
>>
>>Material cause ...  available energy gradients for required actions 
>>generating the narrative
>>
>>Efficient cause(s) ...  serial actions having sequential cumulative 
>>effects on the result of information flow in such a channel
>>
>>Final cause ...  anticipated subsequents as effects of the narrative
>>
>>
>>      (Anticipation requires system survival over a period of time, 
>>during which impingements were survived, sometimes by way of internal 
>>modification -- Rosen, 1985, Anticipatory Systems)
>>
>>STAN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Fis mailing list
>>Fis at listas.unizar.eshttp://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>
>
>--
>-------------------------------------------------
>Pedro C. Marijuán
>Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>
>pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.eshttp://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
>-------------------------------------------------
>
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