[Fis] Fwd: [Sadhu Sanga] Physics hype ...

Fri Jan 27 06:31:52 CET 2017

Cari Tutti,
ho inviato il 24 gennaio la mail che ripropongo perché potrebbe, per mio
errore, non essere pervenuta:
Cari Diego Lucio, Andrea, Alessandro e Tutti,
il Vostro è un bel discorso, come il saggio allegato all'ultima mail.  Lo
apprezzo molto perché ha un valore euristico generale, poiché vale sia per
le scienze naturali sia per le scienze umane. Io, ad es.,applico lo stesso
principio da circa 40 anni nella "Nuova economia" avente una teoria del
valore basata proprio sul triangolo dei tre surplus o delle tre
neg-entropie. Il che non deve "stupire" perché Ilya Prigogine ha avuto il
premio Nobel proprio per avere inventato scoperto le strutture dissipative
che creano ordine (informazione neg-entropica) dal disordine (degradazione
energetica o disinformzaione entropica) mediante fluttuazioni. Anche ogni
azienda o impresa economica è una struttura dissipativa. Mi "stupisce",
invece, che la gran parte degli economisti, per non dire quasi tutti,
compresi tanti Nobel, non se ne siano accorti. Il momento in cui si passa
da un'entropia positiva ad una entropia presa col segno negativo
(neg-entropia) dà luogo a singolarità, asimmetrie, discontinuità: è così
che si ottiene o mantiene la vita e avanza la conoscenza o la scienza.
Grazie, complimenti e felicitazioni augurali.
Francesco Rizzo
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bruno Marchal <marchal at ulb.ac.be>
Date: 2017-01-26 18:53 GMT+01:00
Subject: Re: [Fis] [Sadhu Sanga] Physics hype ...
To: Andrew Fingelkurts / BM-Science <andrew.fingelkurts at bm-science.com>
Cc: Jeremy Dunning-Davies <J.Dunning-Davies at hull.ac.uk>,
contact at howgravityworks.org, squash at gotsky.com, fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>,
Diego Lucio Rapoport <diego.rapoport at gmail.com>, Brian J Ford <
bjford at sciences.demon.co.uk>, Online_Sadhu_Sanga at googlegroups.com

Dear Andrew,

On 26 Jan 2017, at 10:22, Andrew Fingelkurts / BM-Science wrote:

Dear Diego,

Thank you very much for your thoughtful comments. We are not mathematicians
neither physicists, therefore some advanced concepts are not easy to
follow, but we will try to look at your work in relation to your comments :)

In the end of your message you have referred to the dilemma of God… It
sounds similar to our paper: “Is our brain hardwired to produce God or is
our brain hardwired to perceive God? A systematic review on the role of the
brain in mediating religious experience.” This paper is outside the physics
domain and also does not touch explicitly ‘information’, - it discusses the
empirical evidence about the neural constituents of religious experience
and analyse it critically. For those who might be interested, please have a
look here: http://www.bm-science.com/team/art56.pdf

Very interesting paper. Is God invented or discovered? Usually that
question is asked for mathematical notions.

If we assume Computationalism (Digital Mechanism), the religious experience
is when a universal number or digital machine discovers that truth extends
its own reason ability. Gödel's second incompleteness theorem, with f =
"false", and [] = Gödel's bewesibar predicate, and "~" the negation, is
that the formula ~[]f -> ~[](~[]f) is true *about* self-referentially
correct (or just consistent) system, and that is remarkable, but, as Gödel
claimed already (and was proved later by Hilbert & Bernays) the remarkable
fact is that such system, if rich enough to "believe" in the induction
axioms, can prove its own Gödel's theorem, and develop what looks like an
intuition and a learning ability with respect to the truth extending its
justifiability spectrum, like when we believe in Universe(s) or God(s). For
machine, there is a corona of true but non justifiable by reason alone,
extending reason. I call it now the surrational, as it extends the provable
with the true but non provable assertions.

In fact, incompleteness re-introduces the Theaetetus' nuances between
truth, belief ([]p) and knowledge ([]p & p), and if we define the soul by
the first person knower, we get the material nuances as well, making the
theology of the self-referentially correct machine testable, by comparing
its constraints with the empirical apparent constraints, which I did,
actually.
Those theologies are closer to Parmenides, Plato, Moderatus of Gades, and
the Neoplatonists (Plotinus, Proclus, ...) than to Aristotle. Yet it
follows logically from assuming only that consciousness (the zeroth
mystical state) is invariant for some recursive permutation. The
incompleteness divides all points of view into the rationally communicable
and the non rationally communicable one. Only for the Soul such division
does not occur. For the material views, this leads, arguably, to the
splitting between quanta and qualia.

Machines have a very interesting canonical theology, in the Plato sense
where the divine is extensional to the truth. The machines, like Peano
Arithmetic; or Zermelo-Fraenkel Set Theory, already know that their soul is
*not* a machine. For them, experiencing truth is true but neither definable
still less provable. Experiencing consistency is definable, but not
provable, but somehow testable locally.

Best,

Bruno

Greetings,
A&A

*From:* Diego Lucio Rapoport [mailto:diego.rapoport at gmail.com
<diego.rapoport at gmail.com>]
*Sent:* Wednesday, 25 January, 2017 04:38
*To:* Andrew Fingelkurts / BM-Science
*Cc:* Online_Sadhu_Sanga at googlegroups.com; squash at gotsky.com; Jeremy
Dunning-Davies; fis; Brian J Ford; contact at howgravityworks.org
*Subject:* Re: [Fis] [Sadhu Sanga] Physics hype ...

Dear Andrew and Alexander
Thank you dearly for your most striking comment that the transition of
non-linear thermodynamical systems from exploding entropy to a
reorganization of the system
through negative entropy as per my work is the case of the brain as per
your work following Freeman's tradition. (You even wrote it almost
identically to my own presentation!)
Allow me to suggest however, that rather than a nested hierarchy (say a
Matrushka) as already suggested by Freeman, which is an iterated dual
logophysics,
the case is of an hyperKlein Bottle which is non-dual and heterarchical,
rather than hierarchical (or, in other terms, both), as discussed in my
work retaking MacCulloch's 1945 work.
The neural networks that Freeman considered as producing the nested
hierarchy may well be non-orientable (Mobius strip ) as discussed also in
my work, being the case that the topographic
maps of vision and somatosensory systems have the Klein Bottle topology, as
is also the case of genomes.
I look forward to study your works and return to you.
By the way, this non-dual logophysics which integrates Outside and Inside
-as is the Klein Bottle- seems to be the natural one regarding the issue
whether
God(s) produces our bodies as to cognize him (her) and organize our lives
or we produce God(s).

Best and kind regards,

Diego Rapoport
PS Does the dimensional reduction of the olfactory phenomenology to the
single radial "spherical" dimension  at the olfactory bulb
indicates a projective geometry with antipodal points identified, as
retaken by Freeman from earlier research?
Would that be indeed the case, then finite sections of the bulb would be
Mobius strips :-) (!!)

2017-01-24 7:24 GMT-03:00 Andrew Fingelkurts / BM-Science <
andrew.fingelkurts at bm-science.com>:

Dear All,

In relation to the below mentioned “any non-linear thermodynamical system
actually increases to develop a singularity which is followed
by the reorganization of the system through negative entropy, following the
destruction of the  system in its previous form” we would like to comment
that exactly the same principle is observed in the nested hierarchy of the
brain electromagnetic field that supports the nested hierarchy of mentality
and consciousness in particular (for a complete description and discussion,
please see  http://www.bm-science.com/team/art76.pdf)

Greetings,
Andrew and Alexander

*From:* Fis [mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es
<fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es>] *On Behalf Of *Diego Lucio Rapoport
*Sent:* Monday, 23 January, 2017 05:28
*To:* Online_Sadhu_Sanga at googlegroups.com; squash at gotsky.com; Jeremy
Dunning-Davies
*Cc:* fis; bjford at sciences.demon.co.uk; contact at howgravityworks.org
*Subject:* Re: [Fis] [Sadhu Sanga] Physics hype ...

Dear Colleagues
Returning to the issue discussed by Dr Rich Norman  of the validity of the
second law of thermodynamics in relation to biology where negative entropy
drives
systems to self-organize, I would like to comment that *any
non-linear* thermodynamical
system actually increases to develop a singularity which is followed
by the reorganization of the system through negative entropy, following the
destruction of the  system in its previous form.

This is related to the non-orientability -say Mobius strip- of the
compactified complex number system as discussed in
https://www.academia.edu/30485983/Klein_Bottle_Logophysics_Self-reference_
Heterarchies_Genomic_Topologies_Harmonics_and_Evolution._Part_I_
Morphomechanics_Space_and_Time_in_Biology_and_Physics_
Cognition_Non-Linearity_and_the_Structure_of_Uncertainty
and the implications to chemistry, biology, cognition, metamathematics,
genomics and evolution are discussed in

https://www.academia.edu/30546256/Klein_Bottle_Logophysics_Self-reference_
Heterarchies_Genomic_Topologies_Harmonics_and_Evolution._Part_II_Non-
orientability_Cognition_Chemical_Topology_and_Eversions_in_Nature

https://www.academia.edu/30518156/Klein_Bottle_Logophysics_Self-reference_
Heterarchies_Genomic_Topologies_Harmonics_and_Evolution._Part_III_The_Klein_
Bottle_Logic_of_Genomics_and_its_Dynamics_Quantum_
Information_Complexity_and_Palindromic_Repeats_in_Evolution

Best regards
Diego Rapoport

w). Thank you for starting this topic, Dr. Ford.  Your piece is correct by
my estimation, and fits quite exactly with many statements in our new book.
 [Are you familiar with Bechamp?…that chalk sir! You may request a paper
which makes tangible use of physics within cell biology.  Those were
stunning images in your paper.]  There is a great deal of this rot in
physics and cosmology.  Before I begin a new thread concerning causality, I
must add my sad approval to the exhausted refrain below, which did not
offend me in any way.  The situation in my broken country and the world
inspires such painful honesty.  I will put a link to a paper concerning
gravitation which is in keeping, added below the following comment by Eric
Sabo, and then a possible explanation.

“At CERN and Fermilab, no two collisions are exactly the same.
Their efforts are a waste of time as any particles they create only last
nanoseconds and then they "evaporate".

The really odd thing is not one physicist at those facilities ever ask
"Where did they evaporate to?"...
(The only logical answer is, back to the Aether.) It's just a jobs program
for physicists.

What's really odd is they pat themselves on the backs and hand out Nobel
Prizes for their efforts.
I see the real benefit of those projects is that it's all good magnet
R&D...... (For future Antimatter Containment)

. . . .Residing in the urban environment give me the impression that the
stupid people have propagated out of control.
And, every one of them has the right to exist..... and vote!.......
(There's no hope for Humanity.)”

You sir, are right!  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/
310845151_Practical_and_theoretical_assessment_of_
relativistic_theory_v_2?ev=prf_pub

I have just completed a book detailing a great deal of this kind of thing.
A LONG book, gentlemen!  *Science hype, and deception*.  Just look at all
that overstatement and deception.  Have you read the papers debunking
LIGO?  Here is our new book *Beyond the Veil: Deception, truth and the
hidden promise of science*.

https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Veil-Deception-Thoughts-
Conventional/dp/1541117409/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483385806&sr=1-1

*Here is a new thought for you:*

Does the second law of thermodynamics imply by necessity the social
turbulence we see all around us?  The answer is no, entropy increase itself
does not imply social discord as a necessary consequence.  Biological life
is itself an expression of negative entropy, an exporting of entropy in
order to sustain itself and its organized processes.  The biology should by
multiplicative extension increase negative entropy through numerical
increase.

I will speculate to explain the effects witnessed: The effect we see, the
social horror then, I will hypothesize is a function of the lack of
emergent intelligence from the new larger system.  Instead of a healthy
intra-connected single human system, as analogously in the case of a mat of
bacteria relating to its cohabited environment, the connection between the
microorganisms fostering a cooperative intelligence to emerge which guides
proliferation and development
<https://www.researchgate.net/publication/296687326_Physical_Non-Contact_Communication_between_Microscopic_Aquatic_Species_Novel_Experimental_Evidences_for_an_Interspecies_Information_Exchange?enrichId=rgreq-509630d830172fd20d252b3bd4d6f19c-XXX&enrichSource=Y292ZXJQYWdlOzI5NjY4NzMyNjtBUzozMzU5NTA0MDk0MjA4MDdAMTQ1NzEwODIyNzI5NQ%3D%3D&el=1_x_2&_esc=publicationCoverPdf>,
a function terminated with interrupted intra-connectivity, our race is set
against itself, the single system broken apart, our unconscious
connectivity in my estimation has been shut off: we compete at every turn,
and our mental topography has removed the inner means to support the
healthy effect!  I believe, the paper linked below contains the answer.  To
have altered the aspects in this document, has changed my ‘luck.’  My
entire world seems effortless and on track.  I believe, the loss of
identifications with the world and our fellow humans is the cause of the
discord.  Theoretically, as a mat of bacteria, we should operate in
cooperative mutual adjustment with the other organisms which share our
environment…I hypothesize: but for this.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309566203_Super-
ego_and_the_neuroscience_of_empathy_from_unconscious_wish_
to_manifest_behavior--a_new_human_model

Thank you for all this new thinking.  The recent email from John Kineman
was simply excellent.  I will begin a thread later on related topics.

Thank you,

Rich Norman
Journal of Unconscious Psychology
www.mindmagazine.net
http://squa62.wix.com/future-life-net

On Jan 11, 2017, at 7:42 AM, Prof. Brian J Ford <bjford at sciences.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

The extraordinary hyperbole surrounding theoretical physics and cosmology
is disproportionate in comparison with sciences with which people should be
familiar; I have addressed this in a shortly published article (attached,
and in confidence).

There are strong resonances with the mythical world of Jonathan Swift in
all this.

On the safety of nuclear explosions, although the atomic bomb's capacity
for destruction was less than some had predicted, bear in mind (as I have
discussed in a recent book) that the Little Boy bomb dropped on Hiroshima
contained 59 kg U235, of which only 600 mg was released as thermal energy.
Had it all been converted, as some were anticipating, it would have been
100,000 times as powerful.

Best wishes
Brian J Ford
Cambridge UK

----- Original Message -----
*From:* contact at howgravityworks.org
*To:* Online_Sadhu_Sanga at googlegroups.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:06 AM
*Subject:* RE: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: The False Elephant and the False Ego

My apologies if I have offended anyone. It's just sometimes I think that I
am really tired of everything.
(Especially the recent US election.)
Thank you again.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: The False Elephant and the False Ego
From: "'BMP' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M.
Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." <Online_Sadhu_Sanga at googlegroups.com>
Date: Mon, January 09, 2017 6:25 am
To: "Online_Sadhu_Sanga at googlegroups.com"
<Online_Sadhu_Sanga at googlegroups.com>
Thank you, Eric for your intelligent if brutal honesty.

Bhakti Madhava Puri, Ph.D.
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE – of Spiritual Culture & Science
<http://bviscs.org/>

BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE – of Spiritual Culture & Science

Visit us on Facebook <http://facebook.com/bviscs>

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*From:* "contact at howgravityworks.org" <contact at howgravityworks.org>
*To:* Online_Sadhu_Sanga at googlegroups.com
*Sent:* Saturday, January 7, 2017 5:01 AM
*Subject:* RE: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: The False Elephant and the False Ego

Good answer. What really disturbs me is the ability of the individual
to construct a reality  for themselves
that is based in no factual evidence at all. What's even more disturbing is
the will of some to impose their
reality on others even though the imposer knows that the reality they are
imposing is false.

An ignorant or illiterate can also create a false reality and impose it on
others if they have a strong enough
personality and that is even more disturbing. Perhaps that is the true
reason for Sharia Law to exist.
It would appear to be a unifying set of rules that unites and controls an
otherwise barbaric and chaotic
mass of ignorant people that would be without discipline without it.

My reality is the universe is dynamical chaos that manages to fall within
parameter. For example;
All Oak trees are Oaks yet, no two are ever the exactly same. No two
Vidalia onions are exactly the same.
No two stars are exactly the same. At CERN and Fermilab, no two collisions
are exactly the same.
Their efforts are a waste of time as any particles they create only last
nanoseconds and then they "evaporate".

The really odd thing is not one physicist at those facilities ever ask
"Where did they evaporate to?"...
(The only logical answer is, back to the Aether.) It's just a jobs program
for physicists.

What's really odd is they pat themselves on the backs and hand out Nobel
Prizes for their efforts.
I see the real benefit of those projects is that it's all good magnet
R&D...... (For future Antimatter Containment)

We probably shouldn't be upset about anything. Sometimes I consider that I
am the only entity in existence
and that everything and everyone in my reality is a construct for my
amusement. (Or torture lately..... LOL)
(You can't enjoy the good times without a little bad.)

Residing in the urban environment give me the impression that the stupid
people have propagated out of control.
And, every one of them has the right to exist..... and vote!.......
(There's no hope for Humanity.)

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: The False Elephant and the False Ego
From: "'BMP' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M.
Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." <Online_Sadhu_Sanga at googlegroups.com>
Date: Fri, January 06, 2017 9:18 am
To: Online Sadhu Sanga <online_sadhu_sanga at googlegroups.com>
On Jan 4 2017 contact at howgravityworks.org wrote:

> "The reality we accept is a human construct.”(Deepak Chopra)

>I have observed that people do indeed create their own reality. Some even
are able to alter >others reality by their mere physical presence. The
problem I have with all of it is, all >their realities would seem to be
false.

REPLY

This seems to be as concise an assessment of the situation as any already
presented.

It is reasonable to say that individuals may have different interpretations
of reality,  but in itself Reality is not simply a matter of being a human
construct or there would be no meaning to 'error,' 'mistake,' 'illusion,'
and so on. Indeed there would be no meaning to 'truth' as opposed to
untruth.

Human consciousness is limited to its body. An individual is conscious o
nly to the limits of its skin or surface. One may see a tree, or a star, or
a bat - but that same individual cannot know or be conscious of what it is
like to be a bat, as one recent American philosopher, Thomas Nagel,
famously announced in *The Philosophical Review* in October 1974.

A human being has direct consciousness of its body and of its thoughts, but
beyond that it has only representations (signs), images, or reflections (on
the mind's mirror) of the world outside its body. Human consciousness is
therefore NOT the consciousness of trees, stars, bats, or anything else. It
is conscious of other things beyond its
 body, but not the consciousness of those things.

However, there is a consciousness of both individual human consciousness
and the other things/persons of which an individual may be conscious. That
universal consciousness is not only the consciousness of all Reality but
also the consciousness of itself, i.e. it is self-consciousness in and for
Itself. This universal self-consciousness is identical with itself as
Reality, since Reality is the manifestation or expression of itself as real
(being-for-other, or Otherness), while not losing its being-for-itself or
self-consciousness as its ideality or Self-Concept. Here we find the true
dynamic meaning of *Advaita* (non-duality), or the negation of
*dvaita* (duality).
Reality as the Otherness of Universal Self-consciousness is simultaneously
Other (different from) yet identical (same as) universal Self consciousness
being the manifest determinateness of what Self-consciousness is.

To strip Universal Self-consciousness of its Reality is to abstract
consciousness from its concrete Truth as Self-consciousness of Itself. In
other words, it is to end up with a one-sided mental abstraction from the
concrete or whole truth. There are two mistakes here: 1. not only is
Universal Self-consciousness abstracted from Its own Reality, but 2.
Self-consciousness is naievly reduced to consciousness which lacks the
integral unity essential to it (the Self or true Ego) - what Kant called
the unity of apperception.

These mistakes are the result of relying on contingent irrational
intuitions (instincts) without proper philosophical study or knowledge of
the logical necessity that governs the internal rationality of all thought
sequences or movement. Philosophers of Spirit have studied and reached
rational conclusions on the nature of consciousness and its ground in
Spirit. Those who ignore that body of knowledge are illiterate and can only
be victimized by their own conditioned instincts. That is not how human
knowledge or science advances.

When an image is reflected in a mirror, the image is not considered to be
the result of glass and silver of the mirror somehow acting to create the
image. The image has its orgin outside of the mirror and is made of
completely different stuff. A tree reflected in a lake is not made of
water. A radio playing back a broadcast it has received is not producing
the broadcast from itself. Each of these examples provide metaphors for how
to understand the difference between a reality outside of human
consciousness can be reflected within an individual's consciousness without
being the product of that consciousness.

At the same time Reality is not fixed in stone; it is not an inert slab or
impersonal substance. It does not exist only as a reflection within human
consciousness, nor as a product of human consciousness. Such ideas do not
pass the examination of rational thought. The idea that Reality is
Self-conscious Thinking Being in and for itself [Spirit/God] does not
suffer that defect. An individual is a finite moment or instantiation of
Living Reality that reflects that Reality immanently within its
infinitesimal self and can interpret or misinterpret it according to the
extent of its knowledge and wisdom.

Sincerely,
Bhakti Madhava Puri, Ph.D.
http://bviscs.org

BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE – of Spiritual Culture & Science

Visit us on Facebook <http://facebook.com/bviscs>

========================
Original message appears in Sadhu sanga digest for Jan 3 - 4

contact (contact at howgravityworks.org)  Jan 4

 "The reality we accept is a human construct.”(Deepak Chopra)

I have observed that people do indeed create their own reality. Some even
are able to alter others reality by their mere physical presence. The
problem I have with all of it is, all their realities would seem to be
false.

Being an electrical contractor my entire working life, I have observed the
following scenario; I am working in a large commercial building with a
thousand people sitting in cubicles with phones and computers.
There's everyone from CEO to janitor working there also.

Suddenly, "Boom" the electricity for the entire building goes out.
Until I can rush to the main distribution switchgear and restore power,
they all become totally useless.

If the power went out permanently, they would all be sitting around candles
chanting "Nam myoho renge kyo".

It's actually a frightening scenario to me. Some say, "Who would want to
live without electricity."
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