[Fis] RV: Information Science and the City. Trans-in-form-action
Francesco Rizzo
13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com
Tue Jun 24 15:30:42 CEST 2014
Caro Rafael,
tranne prova contraria credo di essere stato il primo economista a pensare
al processo di tras-in-form-azione in lingua italiana. D'altra parte, pur
essendo sensibile alla teoria della comunicazione la concretezza o il
pragmatismo economico porta a considerare adeguatamente l'"orizzonte di
significato" (L. Leydesdorff) e/o codice interpretativo relativo (non
assoluto) al procedimento di astrazione prescelto, modificando il quale il
messaggio diventa rumore e il rumore diventa messaggio. Per non parlare
dell'informazione emessa e dell'informazione acquisita. Non solo i fenomeni
socio-economici, ma anche quelli naturali sono messaggi da comprendere.
Un'ultima precisazione. La "Nuova economia" ("New economics") che propongo
è in-centrata sulla legge dell'informazione (naturale o termodinamica,
genetica, matematica e semantica), ma contiene tante altre innovazioni
teoriche e pratiche.
Grazie ancora per l'autorevole interlocuzione e distinti saluti.
Francesco Rizzo.
2014-06-18 18:01 GMT+02:00 Rafael Capurro <rafael at capurro.de>:
> Dear Francesco,
>
> thanks for your explanations. I agree with you that there is a difference
> that makes a difference between _trans_ and _tras_. Do you know when and
> why this difference was introduced in Italian? I do not know of such a
> difference in other Latin languages (incl. Spanish).
>
> In any case the issue itself concerns the concept of time _as_ related to
> a process to comes to an end or _telos_ when the final _forma_ is achieved.
> This is what _trans-(in)-formatio_ then addresses.
>
> The difference you make concerns a permanent process of how (natural but
> also artificial) things become and disappear (Aristotle's _peri geneseos
> kai pthoras_) which presupposes a concept of linear time _as_ a linear and
> quatifiable parameter that was trans(!)lated in Scholastic philosophy _as_
> "numerus motus secundum prius et posterius").
>
> From a phenomenologial point of view this conception of _tras_ that
> applies to all things (and to the universe itself?) is different from the
> kind of timely beings we are _as_ extended in tridimensional (qualitative
> different) time modes (past-present-future). As Heidegger shows, Western
> metaphysics (including modern science) is based on the view that being
> concerns only one of these modes, namely present: the more present a thing
> is, the more it is (god being the nunc stans).
>
> In other words, the difference you make between _tras_ and _trans_ is not
> enough if we want do address our own being-in-time (or being-as-time). What
> we (partly) tra(n)scend as we exist is precisely the mode of being of
> things although we are at the same time natural beings and so also
> sub-jected to 'natural tras'.
>
> Our 'knowledge' of our own birth and death (which is a very special kind
> of knowledge, isn't it?) opens a different horizon of tra-cendence, a three
> dimensional finite one, that is also different from the coming to a 'telos'
> or perfection.
>
> best
>
> Rafael
>
>
> BlackBerry de movistar, allí donde estés está tu oficin@
> ------------------------------
> *From: * Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
> <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Mon, 16 Jun 2014 09:04:06 +0200
> *To: *Pedro C. Marijuan<pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
> <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
> *Subject: *Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City.
> Trans-in-form-action
>
> Caro Rafael,
> scusami per il ritardo con il quale posso risponderTi. Nel linguistico e
> comunicativo contesto della "Nuova economia" (che non è traducibile in
> "new economy") della produzione o creazione io uso tras-in-form-azione
> intesa a come un'azione formativa (letteralmente che dà forma) nel tempo
> (in) che diventa una conservazione dinamica, cioè una tras-formazione o
> metamorfosi continua; mentre trans-informazione, come anche B. Haussenstein
> e K. Lorenz hanno affermato, si riferisce ai processi di ad-attamento che
> consistono in acquisizione di sapere corrispondente proprio ad una sorta di
> incremento della transinformazione che si stabilisce tra l'organismo e
> l'ambiente circostante. Quindi il prefisso "Tras-" si trova in tras-locare,
> tras-ferire, tras-gredire, tras-lare, tras-mettere; e soprattutto con
> valore figurato, passaggio da una condizione ad un'altra, cambiamento,
> mutamento (tras-crivere, tras-figurare, tras-formare, tras-mutare)
> prevalentemente dei sistemi inorganici; il prefisso "Trans" riguarda
> essenzialmente i sistemi organici e si ritrova in transessuale,
> transgenico, etc. Per la formazione dell'Universo, la progettazione o
> organizzazione delle città, la creazione dei beni culturali, la produzione
> dei beni economici, a mio parere, è più ragionevole usare parole composte
> con il prefisso "Tras". Naturalmente, il mio punto di vista presuppone un
> dominio cognitivo-linguistico-semantico legato alla lingua italiana e
> coerente con la mia episteme economica accennata nei messaggi precedenti.
> In ogni caso, ognuno è libero di chiamare le cose o di significare i segni
> come vuole, secondo il principio semiotico dell'arbitrarietà dei segni.
> Rispettandone le conseguenti coerenze. Quel che conta è la logica del
> ragionamento unito alla disponibilità al dialogo o confronto, senza
> pre-giudizi o apriorismi.
> Vi ringrazio per la Vostra apertura intellettuale che qualifica e
> impreziosisce l'iniziativa e il sapiente lavoro di Pedro. Cari saluti.
> Francesco Rizzo.
>
>
> 2014-06-09 10:53 GMT+02:00 Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>:
>
>> Caro Pedro,
>> chiedo scusa a Tutti. Mi sono fatto prendere dalle domande e
>> automaticamente ho tentato di rispondere facendo delle precisazioni
>> reiterate sulla parola composta tras-in-form-azione che l'ho visto
>> diventare, impropriamente, trans-informazione. Comunque, non conoscevo la
>> regola (due messaggi ogni settimana). Non accadrà più.
>> Cordiali saluti.
>> Francesco Rizzo.
>>
>>
>> 2014-06-08 19:44 GMT+02:00 pedro marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>:
>>
>> Francesco, only two messages per week are allowed in FIS list---Pedro
>>> BlackBerry de movistar, allí donde estés está tu oficin@
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: * Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
>>> *Sender: * Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es>
>>> *Date: *Sun, 8 Jun 2014 16:40:38 +0200
>>> *To: *<rafael at capurro.de>
>>> *Cc: *<fis at listas.unizar.es>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City.
>>> Trans-in-form-action
>>>
>>> Caro Rafael,
>>> grazie per la precisazione che mi riporta ad uno scritto ("Economia
>>> della felicità o dell'infelicità. Analisi critica della teoria delle
>>> valutazioni", seconda edizione, Aracne editrice, Roma 2011) del 1977 in cui
>>> per la prima volta affronto il problema entropico o meno degli equilibri o
>>> dei dis-equilibri economici. Comunque, ripeto ancora che io non parlo di
>>> trans-in-form-azione, bensì di tras-in-form-azione.
>>> Ricambio i saluti augurali di cui ad una certa età abbiamo bisogno per
>>> ritornare continuamente al nostro futuro, dato che è sempre bello
>>> continuare a fare un'esperienza di condivisione empatica.
>>> Francesco.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-06-08 16:05 GMT+02:00 Rafael Capurro <rafael at capurro.de>:
>>>
>>>> Caro Francesco,
>>>> your trans-in-form-azione echoes my paths of thinking
>>>> http://www.triple-c.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/113/116
>>>> that started in 1976 http://www.capurro.de/info.html when
>>>> 'in-form-azione' was a very alien word for philosophers
>>>> auguri
>>>> Rafael
>>>>
>>>> Caro Joseph,
>>>> desidero precisare che la parola composta che io uso è
>>>> tras-in-form-azione, non trans-informazione. Questo per evitare almeno un
>>>> equivoco.
>>>> Buona domenica.
>>>> Francesco.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-06-07 12:05 GMT+02:00 Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com
>>>> >:
>>>>
>>>>> Caro Joseph,
>>>>> vedo che il mio ultimo messaggio è stato un poco raffazzonato. In ogni
>>>>> caso non penso che sia possibile soddisfare la Tua legittima curiosità
>>>>> mediante brevi scritti. Ed è per questo che inizialmente mi sono permesso
>>>>> di suggerire la lettura di tre libri. Naturalmente, mi farò risentire anche
>>>>> per motivare, se serve, il perché "entropia" significa dis-informazione e
>>>>> "neg-entropia" informazione. Interessante è a questo proposito la lettura
>>>>> di "Che cos'è la vita?" di Erwin Schrodinger (con due puntini sopra la o).
>>>>> Grazie soprattutto per la Tua verve critica che apprezzo molto.
>>>>> Saluti.
>>>>> Francesco.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2014-06-07 8:53 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Francesco and All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is a rough version of Francesco's comment. I think it deserves
>>>>>> further critical comments, for example, on the way it relates information
>>>>>> and cultural value and the co-generation of entropy and negentropy, usually
>>>>>> implicit but not spelled out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your words. In the early eighties I introduced the concept
>>>>>> of information-process (the action of giving or taking form in time). In
>>>>>> "The Economics of Cultural Heritage" (1983), which became "Economics of an
>>>>>> “architectural-environmental heritage," in 1989 (Franco Angeli, Milan ), in
>>>>>> which, inter alia, I define a negentropic cultural value. I also applied to
>>>>>> the city, during a course on urban and regional economics at the Faculty of
>>>>>> Architecture of Palermo, in 1984-85, the compound word trans-form-in-action
>>>>>> (action of giving or taking form over time that can /not/ not trans-form)
>>>>>> to the city, But what matters most is to have conceived the activity of
>>>>>> economic production (in general) as a process of trans-information whose
>>>>>> "input" (matter, energy and information) and "output" (matter, energy and
>>>>>> information) are both negentropy and entropy. So my theory of value (which
>>>>>> applies not only to the economy in the strict sense) can be defined in
>>>>>> simple-combination of creative energy and information and, in a more
>>>>>> complex triangle of the three surpluses of negentropy: thermodynamic or
>>>>>> natural, eco-biological and cultural-historical. So, the marginal utility
>>>>>> theory of value of neoclassical economists is outdated and (should be)
>>>>>> thrown to the winds. In fact, the "new economy" is a psycho-physical,
>>>>>> semiotic-hermeneutic and biological technology sub-episteme. In summary, I
>>>>>> really think a new science of economics or economics of science has been
>>>>>> invented. For Pedro’s re-discussion of information encouraged me to send
>>>>>> the above message (without wishing to take any undue credit for myself).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> *From:* Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
>>>>>> *To:* Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
>>>>>> *Cc:* Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es> ;
>>>>>> fis at listas.unizar.es
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 12:37 PM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City.
>>>>>> Trans-in-form-action
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Caro Joseph,
>>>>>> grazie per le Tue parole. All'inizio degli anni Ottanta ho introdotto
>>>>>> il concetto-processo di informazione (azione del dare o prendere forma nel
>>>>>> tempo) In "Economia dei beni culturali"(1983), divenuto "Economia del
>>>>>> patrimonio architettonico-ambientale" nel 1989 (FrancoAngeli, Milano), in
>>>>>> cui fra l'altro definisco i beni culturali neg-entropici. Inoltre ho
>>>>>> impiegato la parola composta tras-in-form-azione (azione del dare o
>>>>>> prendere forma nel tempo che non può non tras-formarsi) alla città durante
>>>>>> lo svolgimento del corso di economia urbana e regionale nella Facoltà di
>>>>>> Architettura di Palermo, nell'A.a. 1984-85. Ma quel che conta di più è
>>>>>> l'avere concepito l'attività di produzione economica (in senso generale)
>>>>>> come un processo di tras-informazione i cui "input" (materia, energia e
>>>>>> informazione) e "output" (materia, energia e informazione) sono
>>>>>> neg-entropia ed entropia. Quindi la mia teoria del valore (che non vale
>>>>>> solo per l'economia in senso stretto) può definirsi- in modo semplice-
>>>>>> combinazione creativa di energia e informazione e, in modo più complesso,
>>>>>> triangolo dei tre surplus o neg-entropie: termodinamici o naturali,
>>>>>> eco-biologici e storico-culturali. Sicché la teoria del valore-utilità
>>>>>> marginale degli economisti neoclassici è sorpassata e da buttare alle
>>>>>> ortiche. Difatti la "Nuova economia" è in-centrata sull'episteme
>>>>>> psico-fisica,semiotico-ermeneutica e biologico-tecnologica. Insomma, penso
>>>>>> davvero di avere inventato una nuova scienza dell'economia o economia
>>>>>> della scienza. Per questo appena Pedro ha ri-parlato di informazione sono
>>>>>> stato stimolato a mandare il messaggio precedente.
>>>>>> Ribadisco, però, che non intendo menare alcun vanto.
>>>>>> Cordiali saluti.
>>>>>> Francesco Rizzo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2014-06-06 9:49 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Francesco,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for a most interesting overview of your work. What I would
>>>>>>> be most interested in would be a summary of the real processes underlying
>>>>>>> "trans-in-form-action" and its relation to information - and
>>>>>>> "trans-information". The use of the prefix 'trans-' in transdisciplinarity
>>>>>>> is intended (by Nicolescu) to refer to something that lies within, between
>>>>>>> and beyond specific disciplines. Another non-trivial use of 'trans-' was
>>>>>>> made by Pedro.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Some 14 years ago, I defined 'trans-creation' as the creation of
>>>>>>> artistic documents or objects with some social relevance, that is, to the
>>>>>>> common good. It is important to understand, in this connection, how
>>>>>>> information carries such relevance.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you prefer to answer in Italian rather than English, unless there
>>>>>>> is someone else in the group with Italian-language skills, I would
>>>>>>> undertake to make a rough translation (or edit a machine-translation).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Joseph E. Brenner, Ph.D.)
>>>>>>> VP-Inter-and Transdisciplinarity, International Society for
>>>>>>> Information Science)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> *From:* Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> *To:* Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
>>>>>>> *Cc:* fis at listas.unizar.es
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:31 PM
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Caro Pedro e cari tutti,
>>>>>>> mi permetto di segnalarVi che la mia "Nuova economia" è basata sul
>>>>>>> processo di tras-in-form-azione. Si cfr. a tal proposito, fra i tanti
>>>>>>> altri:
>>>>>>> -Rizzo F., ""Valore e valutazioni. La scienza dell'economia o
>>>>>>> l'economia della scienza", FancoAngeli, Milano 1999;
>>>>>>> -Rizzo F., "Nuova economia. Felicità del lavoro creativo e della
>>>>>>> conservazione della natura. Infelicità della speculazione finanziaria",
>>>>>>> Aracne editrice, Roma, 2013;
>>>>>>> -Rizzo F., "Incontro d'amore tra il cuore della fede e
>>>>>>> l'intelligenza della scienza. Un salto nel cielo", Aracne editrice, Roma
>>>>>>> 2014.
>>>>>>> Ho dedicato mezzo secolo di ricerca per ri-comprendere e
>>>>>>> ri-significare la scienza economica. Quello che scrivo non è una
>>>>>>> presunzione.
>>>>>>> Auguri per un'intensa ripresa e grazie.
>>>>>>> Francesco Rizzo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2014-06-05 14:25 GMT+02:00 Pedro C. Marijuan <
>>>>>>> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear FISers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Among the many interesting themes where the information science
>>>>>>>> perspective may provide useful orientations, cities are one of the most
>>>>>>>> singular. A recent work by Michel Batty on the New Science of Cities (2013,
>>>>>>>> MIT) makes a lot of connections with our oft discussed info topics. A
>>>>>>>> Communication Theory of Urban Growth was developed by Richard Meier (1962);
>>>>>>>> a fluxes perspective was already attempted by Patrick Geddes (1949). In
>>>>>>>> essence I have found that the idea of information flows and material flows
>>>>>>>> as catching and intertwining each other, with their highly different
>>>>>>>> regimes, heterogeneity and energy contents, appears as an important focus
>>>>>>>> in order to better understand the globalized city. Scaling is one of the
>>>>>>>> essential concepts...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not aware that scaling has been applied to the informational
>>>>>>>> analysis itself (obviously it is the cornerstone of self-similarity). What
>>>>>>>> I mean is that a micro-level of communication analysis may be quite
>>>>>>>> different from the meso-level, and the from macro-level. Thinking in the
>>>>>>>> human case (biologically it could make sense too) the micro level is
>>>>>>>> dominated by syntaxis, by a Shannonian type of analysis on messages emitted
>>>>>>>> from a sourced to a receiver. The meso level contains meaning, value
>>>>>>>> (fitness), purpose, and in general it implies the communication associated
>>>>>>>> to the behavioral episodes and living rhythms of individuals. While in the
>>>>>>>> macro level, many individuals' actions, works, products, etc. are
>>>>>>>> aggregated into fluxes or flows, basically of two kinds those devoted to
>>>>>>>> the material (self-production) and those carrying the info stuff devoted to
>>>>>>>> communication; then it invites analysis of network science, operations
>>>>>>>> research, economic efficiency, etc., and of course the direct flow
>>>>>>>> perspective as Bejan and Peder (2011) have attempted in one of the most
>>>>>>>> interesting theories on self-constructing flow systems. Depending on the
>>>>>>>> information perspective in which we observe human communication, we will
>>>>>>>> need one or another lens to better make sense of what is happening.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My impression is that a more mature info science could be quite
>>>>>>>> helpful in this new field of urban development science --most people
>>>>>>>> nowadays are living in cities. Top down planning will fail if it is does
>>>>>>>> not match with the bottom up processes, both in communication and
>>>>>>>> self-production aspects. Keeping an adequate social flow of information, a
>>>>>>>> well-mixed regime of communication, is the essence of democracy. The
>>>>>>>> contemporary "epidemics of loneliness" for instance may be due among other
>>>>>>>> social and demographic causes to failures in bureaucratic high level
>>>>>>>> planning...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> best ---Pedro
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PS. After the nasty computer crash months ago, we should try to
>>>>>>>> enliven the list--shouldn't we?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Pedro C. Marijuán
>>>>>>>> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>>>>>>>> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
>>>>>>>> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
>>>>>>>> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
>>>>>>>> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
>>>>>>>> Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 <%2B34%20976%2071%203526> (& 6818)
>>>>>>>> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
>>>>>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Fis mailing list
>>>>>>>> Fis at listas.unizar.es
>>>>>>>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Fis mailing list
>>>>>>> Fis at listas.unizar.es
>>>>>>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Fis mailing listFis at listas.unizar.eshttp://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro
>>>> Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany
>>>> Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org)
>>>> Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa.
>>>> President, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de)
>>>> Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net)
>>>> Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany
>>>> E-Mail: rafael at capurro.de
>>>> Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21)
>>>> Homepage: www.capurro.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing listFis at listas.unizar.eshttp://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>
>
>
> --
> Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro
> Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany
> Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org)
> Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa.
> President, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de)
> Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net)
> Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany
> E-Mail: rafael at capurro.de
> Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21)
> Homepage: www.capurro.de
>
>
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>
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