[Fis] Art as human practice

Tue Jan 20 15:01:40 CET 2026

Dear Paul

In way, I would say you are right to challenge any universal statement like
"we all inhabit the same universe". After all, how can I know that my
universe is the same as yours? This is an epistemological problem as soon
as we say "we" - to what does "we" refer? Indeed, it is equally difficult
to consider to what "I" refers, although perhaps there is a case to say
that "I" is self-reference, and from that self-reference, "we" arises. So
from this perspective you're right.

My background is in music, so I've been particularly interested in this
discussion about art. If music didn't have some kind of ontological
foundation in nature, it is difficult to imagine how it could communicate
without any kind of reference unless it was to nature itself. This has
prompted sociologists to speculate as to the mechanisms behind music's
communication - Alfred Schutz, for example, talked of what happens when
people make music together - see Schütz - 1951 - Making Music Tohether A
Study in Social Relationship | PDF | Communication | Cognitive Science
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.scribd.com/document/248050630/Schutz-1951-Making-Music-Tohether-a-Study-in-Social-Relationship__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WQFQHWb6Mq43_TaitE-WfoZHv5Axm7pnJSIFfV_aNS-BGdriw_Ce3ihTbfTaYfziINU2HxIQithmg0DVA_lvs48$ >).
A central concept in his work concerns "we" - or what he calls a "pure
we-relation", which is a kind of "tuning-in" to another's inner world.

But of course that begs the question, "How does the tuning-in work, and
does that entail some kind of universality at a fundamental level?". I
recently published a paper arguing along similar lines to John Torday that
if we were to look for a fundamental universal level it may concern both
physics and physiology. If you are interested, the paper is here: Music,
cells and the dimensionality of nature - ScienceDirect
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610723000998?via*3Dihub__;JQ!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WQFQHWb6Mq43_TaitE-WfoZHv5Axm7pnJSIFfV_aNS-BGdriw_Ce3ihTbfTaYfziINU2HxIQithmg0DVWtO6qr0$ >
.

But it's long (and a bit dull!), and perhaps the key thing I want to point
out is at the beginning and a quote by David Bohm on music: "at a given
moment a certain note is being played but a number of the previous notes
are still 'reverberating' in consciousness. Close attention will show that
it is the simultaneous presence and activity of all these reverberations
that is responsible for the direct and immediately felt sense of movement,
flow and continuity.” (from Wholeness and the Implicate Order). For Bohm,
the "sense of movement, flow and continuity" is universal, and indeed
synonymous with physics.

That is what I mean by "we all inhabit the same universe" - and perhaps in
that statement, the word "we" is as important as "universe".

The universal is common theme in artistic endeavours - Beethoven's "Alle
Menschen Werden Brüder" in the 9th symphony is a particularly striking
case. Was this just wishful thinking? But Beethoven knew what he was doing
- although perhaps it's not to everyone's taste.

That does raise the issue of "taste" and "preference" in art and ideas. If
something isn't to our taste, does that mean it isn't valid or true? One of
the great benefits of the arts is that it places focus on our own aesthetic
responses to things, and shows how what we might reject at one point in our
lives, we come to love and appreciate later on (and vice-versa).

I can fully appreciate your perspective as a "pro-western intellectual
underdog and anti-academic". That could be a matter of taste. But I ask you
whether in being "pro-western", is there an implicit "we"? And is it the
case that the "we" of being pro-western is very different from the "we" of
physics or physiology? It is the latter where my statement comes from - but
equally I appreciate that the "we" of physics and physiology cannot escape
what you rightly call the toxic environment of academia.

This is perhaps why the most interesting figures in science and the arts
are outsiders from the academy. Many of us here on FIS fall into that
category, as did people like David Bohm - so that's good company for "we"
too!

Best wishes,

Mark

On Tue, 20 Jan 2026 at 06:34, Paul Suni <paul.p.suni at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Francesco & Mark,
>
> Francesco: I am very sorry. Somehow, my email app associated Mark
> Johnson’s comment with your email address. My response should have gone to
> Mark, instead of you!
>
> Mark: You said to me, “  The fundamental challenge to Paul Suni is that
> all humans inhabit the same universe.” I intended to respond to you, “ I
> completely disagree with with you that all humans inhabit the same
> universe. There is no evidence of that. I wonder what made you say that?”
> I’ll add that you sound as if you are talking to a child. Did you intend to
> diminish me with your comment? Having said that, I do think that an
> interesting and deep conversation could be had following your comment, but
> I imagine that you are not interested in a more meaningful interaction.
>
> Ciao,
> Paul
>
>
> I completely disagree with you that all humans inhabit the same universe.
>> There is no evidence of that. I wonder what made you say that?
>
>
> On Jan 18, 2026, at 10:02 PM, Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dearest Paolo,
> Help me figure out how and where I wrote "that all human beings inhabit
> the same universe"? I don't think I've ever asked myself this question.
> Hugs,
> Francesco, 19 gennaio 2026, ore 06,58.
>
>
> Carissimo Paolo,
> aiutami a scoprire come e dove ho scritto “che tutti gli esseri umani
> abitano lo stesso universo”?. Non credo di essermi posto questa questione.
> Un abbraccio.
> Francesco, 19 gennaio 2026, ore 06,58.
>
> Il giorno dom 18 gen 2026 alle ore 23:01 Paul Suni <paul.p.suni at gmail.com>
> ha scritto:
>
>> Dear Francesco,
>>
>> I completely disagree with you that all humans inhabit the same universe.
>> There is no evidence of that. I wonder what made you say that?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Paul
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2026, at 3:32 AM, Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  The fundamental challenge to Paul Suni is that all humans inhabit the
>> same universe.
>>
>>
>>
>

-- 
Dr. Mark William Johnson
Faculty of Biology, Medicine and Health
University of Manchester

Department of Science Education
University of Copenhagen

Department of Eye and Vision Science (honorary)
University of Liverpool
Phone: 07786 064505
Email: johnsonmwj1 at gmail.com
Blog: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://dailyimprovisation.blogspot.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WQFQHWb6Mq43_TaitE-WfoZHv5Axm7pnJSIFfV_aNS-BGdriw_Ce3ihTbfTaYfziINU2HxIQithmg0DVHHEWHak$ 
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