[Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 129, Issue 20

Sun Jan 11 20:17:23 CET 2026

Dear Kate, John, Marco, Francisco, Dear FIS Colleagues,
It is really interesting and useful to get to know your perspectives. I am
grateful for your suggestions and opinions. I must confess that, as a
social and cultural scientist, I am just learning the (biological, etc.)
languages you use and curiously reading the papers you suggested. Katherine
Peil's work on emotion and the self-regulatory sense does not deal with art
actually, although senses and emotions are undoubtedly supposed to have
"some way" connection with art, but others also have (consciousness,
self-reflecion, etc.). It does not give answer to my question. Torday &
Miller (2018) and Torday (2015) also provided excellent learning and
insight for me. I just cannot understand why and how we suppose an
exclusive evolutionary chain linking only one or two factors regarding art.
What is art? (That was the topic of my referred article, actually.) The
Area of Broca seems like a significant evolutionary step, but this ability
is too broad to answer my question. It seems to give an answer to the
question of the difference between animals (even apes) and humans, but it
seems just a speculation (hypothesis) to suppose that language is only
human (e.g., the bees' communication or some apes' typing activity is not
through language?). Thus, should it really be reduced to linguistic skills?
And the music? And the dance? Why should we suppose this direct connection?
I can accept your opinion, of course, if there is real, experimental
evidence (I just do not know), but the argumentation still lacks concrete
evidence, why art is necessary, and really "sits" in the area of Broca.
Natural sciences use elaborate experimental methods, combined with
theoretical speculations - but speculation needs to be justified somehow.
Do you know any experimental cognitive laboratory studies on “actually”
art? I mentioned some of them in my paper, but they reduced art to very
simple and abstract notions (”beauty", "reactions on films" etc.). These
can (certainly it is only a possibility) link to different brain areas,
different activities of the cortex, etc. I am not refusing anybody's
argumentation; I am just trying to understand them. And - of course - it is
a great honor that you joined the discussion of this topic. I really learn
a lot from your comments and thoughts. Sorry for being the Devil's Advocate
in this issue, but I am not convonced yet.
Best,
         László

P.s. a short response to Marco: may I suggest an article of Gillian
Morriss-Kay (2010): The evolution of human artistic creativity (2010) -
what do you think of this argumentation of metaphorical cognitions?
Nevertheless, this article relies on archaeological evidences much before
the Upper Paleolitic.

JOHN TORDAY <jtorday at ucla.edu> ezt írta (időpont: 2026. jan. 11., V, 15:51):

> Kate, hypothesis: since consciousness is connected with locomotion, art is
> vicarious movement? Kinda like how/why fantom limb sustains the cell-cell
> signaling “north” of the severed leg so one doesn’t suffer from “disuse
> atrophy” ? What do you think? John
>
>
> John S. Torday
> Professor of Pediatrics
> Obstetrics and Gynecology
> Evolutionary Medicine
> UCLA
>
> *Fellow, The European Academy of Science and Arts*
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 10, 2026 at 5:32 PM JOHN TORDAY <jtorday at ucla.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Kate, of course you're right about the fundamental bacterial origin of
>> emotion and locomotion, but I was trying to frame my response in the
>> context of 'art' as a manifestation of consciousness. I would like to
>> suggest that what bacteria do is a behavior, not consciousness in the sense
>> that bacteria are aware of their 'selves'. I think of Chalmers' 'hard
>> question', 'seeing red when we whack our thumb with a hammer' as an
>> atavistic memory of when we first injured ourselves and bled, not unlike
>> our innate fear of the dark, lightning, spiders and snakes.....innate
>> traits that are buried deep within the homeostatically-regulated memories
>> of our cells. That sense of comfort or discomfort due to non-local
>> consciousness is the impetus for expressing such feelings in the form of
>> art. In this context, It is of interest that there were three hormone
>> receptors that duplicated (amplified) during the water-land transition,
>> those for Parathyroid Hormone-related Protein (PTHrP), cortisol, and the
>> beta-adrenergic receptor, all three of which were necessary for physiologic
>> adaptation to land. Herein, it is important to bear in mind that the
>> endocrine system is under epigenetic control (Zhang X, Ho SM.
>> Epigenetics meets endocrinology. J Mol Endocrinol. 2011 Feb;46(1):R11-32),
>> inferring that our consciousness is controlled by our environment. And all
>> of the above was set in motion by the force of gravity (Torday JS.
>> Parathyroid hormone-related protein is a gravisensor in lung and bone cell
>> biology. Adv Space Res. 2003;32(8):1569-76), which is why, in my opinion,
>> we feel there is something greater than ourselves, which, is the motivation
>> and need for art as the expression of that 'holism'. It is not coincidental
>> that we express most art other than dance through our forelimbs, which were
>> freed by standing on two legs, allowing us to express our emotions through
>> our hands.....and btw, our hands are genetically connected to our hearts as
>> the seat of emotion through homeobox genes. For example, if an infant is
>> born with webbed fingers the Pediatrician will suspect a heart defect
>> because the webbing is under the same genetic control as the septation of
>> the heart. Art is our expression of our holistic relationship to the
>> Cosmos.....But perhaps you see it differently?
>>
>> Collegially, John
>>
>> John S. Torday
>> Professor of Pediatrics
>> Obstetrics and Gynecology
>> Evolutionary Medicine
>> UCLA
>>
>> *Fellow, The European Academy of Science and Arts*
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 10, 2026 at 5:28 PM JOHN TORDAY <jtorday at ucla.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Kate, of course you're right about the fundamental bacterial origin
>>> of emotion and locomotion, but I was trying to frame my response in the
>>> context of 'art' as a manifestation of consciousness. I would like to
>>> suggest that what bacteria do is a behavior, not consciousness in the sense
>>> that bacteria are aware of their 'selves'. I think of Chalmers' 'hard
>>> question', 'seeing red when we whack our thumb with a hammer' as an
>>> atavistic memory of when we first injured ourselves and bled, not unlike
>>> our innate fear of the dark, lightning, spiders and snakes.....innate
>>> traits that are buried deep within the homeostatically-regulated memories
>>> of our cells. That sense of comfort or discomfort due to non-local
>>> consciousness is the impetus for expressing such feelings in the form of
>>> art. In this context, It is of interest that there were three hormone
>>> receptors that duplicated (amplified) during the water-land transition,
>>> those for Parathyroid Hormone-related Protein (PTHrP), cortisol, and the
>>> beta-adrenergic receptor, all three of which were necessary for physiologic
>>> adaptation to land. Herein, it is important to bear in mind that the
>>> endocrine system is under epigenetic control (Zhang X, Ho SM.
>>> Epigenetics meets endocrinology. J Mol Endocrinol. 2011 Feb;46(1):R11-32),
>>> inferring that our consciousness is controlled by our environment. And all
>>> of the above was set in motion by the force of gravity (Torday JS.
>>> Parathyroid hormone-related protein is a gravisensor in lung and bone cell
>>> biology. Adv Space Res. 2003;32(8):1569-76), which is why, in my opinion,
>>> we feel there is something greater than ourselves, which, is the motivation
>>> and need for art as the expression of that 'holism'. It is not coincidental
>>> that we express most art other than dance through our forelimbs, which were
>>> freed by standing on two legs, allowing us to express our emotions through
>>> our hands.....and btw, our hands are genetically connected to our hearts as
>>> the seat of emotion through homeobox genes. For example, if an infant is
>>> born with webbed fingers the Pediatrician will suspect a heart defect
>>> because the webbing is under the same genetic control as the septation of
>>> the heart. Art is our expression of our holistic relationship to the
>>> Cosmos.....But perhaps you see it differently?
>>>
>>> Collegially, John
>>>
>>> John S. Torday
>>> Professor of Pediatrics
>>> Obstetrics and Gynecology
>>> Evolutionary Medicine
>>> UCLA
>>>
>>> *Fellow, The European Academy of Science and Arts*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 10, 2026 at 4:20 PM Katherine Peil <ktpeil at outlook.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks John, for you association between Language and Locomotion. But
>>>> there is a much deeper, more ancient, connection between *emotion* and
>>>> behavioral locomotion (witness the chemotaxis, info taxis of the
>>>> bacterium.) Read all about it here: Peil, K. T. (2014). Emotion: the
>>>> self-regulatory sense. *Global advances in health and medicine*, *3*(2),
>>>> 80-108.
>>>> Might your work on gravity and identity apply here?
>>>> Kate Kauffman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/10/26, 1:39 PM, "Fis" <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> wrote:
>>>> Katherine Peil Kauffman
>>>>
>>>> Send Fis mailing list submissions to
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>>>> than "Re: Contents of Fis digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>>    1. Re: Art and the Cognitive (Is art a human phenomenon?)
>>>>       (JOHN TORDAY)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2026 15:38:02 -0500
>>>> From: JOHN TORDAY <jtorday at ucla.edu>
>>>> To: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Fis] Art and the Cognitive (Is art a human phenomenon?)
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>         <CAGyb-D1qFkJnCw0M2UsvOKfqseR=3-Brm-DGJ8-d=
>>>> 2fmcT7nag at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Dear Laszlo and FIS, when you ask whether art is unique to humans, I
>>>> think
>>>> you have to ask that question in the context of physiology as the
>>>> origin of
>>>> consciousness (Torday JS, Miller WB Jr. A systems approach to
>>>> physiologic
>>>> evolution: From micelles to consciousness. J Cell Physiol. 2018
>>>> Jan;233(1):162-167.). And in that vein, only humans possess an Area of
>>>> Broca that integrates language and locomotion, great apes also having an
>>>> Area of Broca, but without language facility. It is the merging of
>>>> locomotor and language skills under the aegis of the FoxP2 gene  that is
>>>> the origin of Man's facility for art in my opinion, stemming from
>>>> bipedalism as positive selection pressure for our overdeveloped central
>>>> nervous system (Torday JS. A central theory of biology. Med Hypotheses.
>>>> 2015 Jul;85(1):49-57). Perhaps you could comment?
>>>>
>>>> Best, John
>>>>
>>>> John S. Torday
>>>> Professor of Pediatrics
>>>> Obstetrics and Gynecology
>>>> Evolutionary Medicine
>>>> UCLA
>>>>
>>>> *Fellow, The European Academy of Science and Arts*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 10, 2026 at 11:04?AM Marcus Abundis <55mrcs at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Hi L?szl?,
>>>> >
>>>> > From your introductory post, and the longer paper's abstract it is not
>>>> > clear what we are being asked to consider in your talk. I thought the
>>>> > 'whole matter' of art, etc. was a wholly settled matter, often framed
>>>> as
>>>> > the 'Upper Paleolithic Revolution' (but at times called various
>>>> names). The
>>>> > advent of cave paintings, etc. was seen as clear evidence for a human
>>>> > capacity for abstraction and abstract thought, first arising somewhere
>>>> > between 300KYA (first modern humans) and 50KYA (early evident
>>>> artifacts).
>>>> >
>>>> > What exactly are we considering in your talk?
>>>> >
>>>> > Thank you,
>>>> >
>>>> > Marcus Abundis
>>>> > 55mrcs at gmail.com (best)
>>>> > +41 62 844 2193 home (2nd best)
>>>> > +41 77 465 8977 (cell)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Fri, Jan 9, 2026 at 9:35?PM Cs?ji L?szl? Kopp?ny <
>>>> > csaji.koppany at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This is rather a starting point of a conversation than a report of
>>>> >> research results; a call to think together and share our thoughts and
>>>> >> knowledge. The question in this kick-off text is very simple: Is art
>>>> a
>>>> >> human ability? As a social and cultural anthropologist, I conducted
>>>> >> fieldworks in Asia, Africa, and Europe over the last few decades. Art
>>>> >> penetrates our everyday life and rituals; just think of the built
>>>> >> environment, music, design, literature, fine arts, vernacular arts,
>>>> etc. I
>>>> >> have recently published a paper that addresses art(s), aiming to
>>>> develop a
>>>> >> new definition from the perspective of cognitive sciences (see:
>>>> Toward a
>>>> >> Multidimensional Definition of Art from the Perspective of Cognitive
>>>> >> Sciences | MDPI
>>>> >> <
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F3042-8084%2F2%2F1%2F1__%3B!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Xrv66q4RXEKv2pWONoI8np-mus_kNGSc3EjXMgbnMskwKkNrkjmE_CkucMR_l-mR9kB5LSEAvPHhwXtKfFcx6TrO8g%24&data=05%7C02%7C%7C2c33e0ed545141bee04a08de50884c6c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C639036743500508650%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tVP4LM7CrWOYcon0gz4lMCJWH%2FcIDEMUwjsARmI0FSE%3D&reserved=0 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.mdpi.com/3042-8084/2/1/1__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Xrv66q4RXEKv2pWONoI8np-mus_kNGSc3EjXMgbnMskwKkNrkjmE_CkucMR_l-mR9kB5LSEAvPHhwXtKfFcx6TrO8g$>
>>>> >).
>>>> >> My attached kick-off text largely relies on this long paper.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Numerous attempts to define art have been made from antiquity to the
>>>> >> present, yet historical overviews often adopt a Eurocentric (and
>>>> >> American-centric) perspective focused mainly on culturally dependent
>>>> >> aesthetic approaches. As a universal social and cultural phenomenon,
>>>> art
>>>> >> resists center-periphery models. Art is not merely a unique
>>>> representation
>>>> >> of reality, but also an ability to create new realities and thereby
>>>> shape
>>>> >> society. Art has attracted and accompanied people from the dawn of
>>>> history.
>>>> >> Some argue that acquiring the ability to create and appreciate art
>>>> was one
>>>> >> of the few important steps in the process of becoming Homo Sapiens.
>>>> Thus,
>>>> >> it is a universal phenomenon that spans ages and cultures?arising
>>>> from
>>>> >> something fundamentally human.  However, is it really fundamentally
>>>> human?
>>>> >> What gives its "merely" human factor? Do our experiences (image) on
>>>> AI
>>>> >> development and its social functions support this idea? Ethologists,
>>>> >> cognitive scientists, and psychologists often over-emphasize one
>>>> element
>>>> >> (e.g., visual symmetry-asymmetry, harmony, beauty, etc.) of art(s)
>>>> that
>>>> >> seems suitable for their research methods. This seems a pragmatic and
>>>> >> reasonable solution, but it easily obscures the ?big picture? and
>>>> the core
>>>> >> of the problem. Thus, it remains a question how art can be
>>>> considered as a
>>>> >> human activity. Consequently, artists and scholars have been
>>>> preoccupied
>>>> >> since ancient times with the question of what art is, or how certain
>>>> >> prominent forms of art (visual arts, drama, music, literature, etc.)
>>>> work.
>>>> >> Nevertheless, the abstract concept of art is not expressed by a
>>>> notion
>>>> >> (word) in every culture. There are significant differences in the
>>>> use of
>>>> >> the words linked to art. Moreover, the meaning of art has changed
>>>> >> continuously and significantly over time, albeit at different rates.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The cognitive turn reshaped art theory by reconsidering art as a
>>>> >> cognitive dimension of humanity. Art has no limits on who can create
>>>> or
>>>> >> enjoy it. The ability to use and understand metaphor, for instance,
>>>> >> demonstrates everyday human artistic cognition. I introduced a simple
>>>> >> vectorial model that aligns closely with the idea of family
>>>> resemblance
>>>> >> in the sense that cognitive semantics conceives it as a kind of
>>>> >> categorization (meaning construction). This a 3D model rather than a
>>>> >> simple definition. Since art lacks a single, definitive prototype, no
>>>> >> strict, universal definition can capture all its forms in a yes or no
>>>> >> spectrum. My filed studies showed me the variability of artistic
>>>> >> practices (in craft, value, range of affect, etc.) that can be
>>>> placed in
>>>> >> different ways within a space (and not a category) of art. In this
>>>> model,
>>>> >> three coordinates form a space. These vectors (coordinates) are
>>>> equally
>>>> >> relevant cognitive aspects: 1. Creativity, 2. Communication, 3.
>>>> Experience.
>>>> >> For further, detailed argumentation see the attached file.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Dear FIS members, dear colleagues in different scientific
>>>> disciplines! Do
>>>> >> you agree or disagree that art is a human ability? If yes or no:
>>>> what kind
>>>> >> of evidence can we set up for the argumentation?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Best regards,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>                             L?szl? Kopp?ny Cs?ji
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> P.s. See the attached file for further details and argumentation
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Fis mailing list
>>>> >> Fis at listas.unizar.es
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>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> End of Fis Digest, Vol 129, Issue 20
>>>> ************************************
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>>>> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>>>>
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>>> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
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> ----------
> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>
> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por
> la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
> siguiente enlace:
> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas 
> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
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