[Fis] Contingency signals: AI Information, Decision and Learning

Sat Nov 22 04:27:22 CET 2025

 reminder, life did not start with individuals.  it started with groups. 
bacteria were our ancestors.  as james shapiro pointed out to me, it you strand a bacterium on her own, she refuses to be solitary. she multiplies to create her own social group.
and bacteria in social groups communicate.  they exchange information.
with warmth and oomph--howard

    On Friday, November 21, 2025 at 03:22:17 PM EST, Pedro C. Marijuán <pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com> wrote:   

  Hi,  
  the messages below remind me Tomkins' "metabolic code " hypothesis. In a nutshell it says that most (?)  signaling evolves from the detection of anomalous inner states, accumulating unwanted metabolic dead ends, and later on these very substances become signals that circulate inside and outside to trigger functional responses (the case of cAMP is highlighted). So, the individual contingent becomes later on the social determinant, and also the vice versa.  My memory is weak, my time short. Anyone interested may go to journal Science. GM Tomkins · 1975 — The Metabolic Code: Biological symbolism and the origin of intercellular communication is discussed. I think John's works are not far from these premises... 
  Greetings to all, --Pedro 
  El 20/11/2025 a las 12:54, JOHN TORDAY escribió:

 Any way to test whether the AI 'parts' are representative of a 'whole'? or just space-filling stuff.... 
  John Torday 

  On Thu, Nov 20, 2025 at 4:29 AM Mark Johnson <johnsonmwj1 at gmail.com> wrote:

  Dear all, 
  A group of colleagues and I have been working on diagnostic AI for some years  using a comparison technique. A few of us just published this paper on the inter-relationship between management decision making, the learning of decision-making and technology: Developing judgement for business: an AI-based model of independent management learning - ScienceDirect 
  The role of information in this is obviously crucial - as is the criticism of AI that it is an unreliable assistant. How might AI tell us when it's not sure about things? While Shannon's H is a kind of contingency signal, it is curious how with AI this aspect of mathematical information theory is easily forgotten! However, there does seem to be an intersection between the way information is conceived and effective social decision-making where: 
  a. information is framed in terms of varying degrees of contingency b. good decision concerns the effective allocation of scarce human expertise to maximise organisational effectiveness 
  In essence, the greater the contingency in a judgement, the greater the need to allocate human resource to debate choices; the less the contingency, the less the need for humans in decision processes.  
  The fundamental message is a management cybernetic one (i.e. Stafford Beer) - it is not what the technology itself does, it is how we organise ourselves with it that matters. 
  The technique in the paper illustrates a way in which degrees of contingency in decision-making can be identified by the technology. It is, we would suggest, this signal which we need from our technology, not an "answer" to questions. So the pursuit of "answer engines" (as Google and others are discussing) is barking up the wrong tree.  
  A deeper question is whether some kind of "contingency signal" lies at the heart of biological information itself. This would have resonance with deeper cybernetic ideas about contingency (Luhmann, Leydesdorff, Shannon, etc) and cellular organisation (Torday and colleagues, Levin, etc) - whether a biological "contingency signal" is produced in the gap between the internal biological selection process of a cell (referencing its evolutionary history acquired through symbiogenesis, for example) and external selection pressure.  
  Any thoughts? 
  Best wishes, 
  Mark -- 
  Dr. Mark William Johnson
 Faculty of Biology, Medicine and Health University of Manchester 
  Department of Eye and Vision Science (honorary) University of Liverpool Phone: 07786 064505
 Email: johnsonmwj1 at gmail.com
 Blog: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://dailyimprovisation.blogspot.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XBvBrp7ijV2f7by7LhyBU7-jE_l_1xcphKxLE3bSRyM3olBmF3HIkB-Q3cWiLA2N_ScaDJiO86yw2bPW2A$    _______________________________________________
 Fis mailing list
 Fis at listas.unizar.es
 http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis 
 ----------
 INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL

 Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
 Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas 
 Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
 http://listas.unizar.es 
 ----------

  _______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
Fis at listas.unizar.es
http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis 
----------
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL

Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas 
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
http://listas.unizar.es 
----------

 _______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
Fis at listas.unizar.es
http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis 
----------
INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL

Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas 
Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
http://listas.unizar.es 
----------

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20251122/4c4c5620/attachment-0001.html>