[Fis] Inviting you to join Club of Remy

Wed Mar 12 08:10:28 CET 2025

Without a doubt! – mapping emergence is the single greatest unanswered
scientific challenge!
Any details/references you have to offer on progress on *formally* mapping
emergence are greatly appreciated.

Marcus

[image: --]
Marcus Abundis
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On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 6:47 AM Jason Hu <jasonthegoodman at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Howard,
>
> Waiting for your opinion on the PPT I sent you last time, I have been able
> to watch your movie during my waiting time to upgrade my laptop (from
> 16G/1T/4core/8logical processors to 32G/2T/16cores/22logical processors).
> It is indeed as amazing as your perception of my life; thus, I need to
> write you more about the fact that we came from very different societies;
> therefore, we might have a lot to exchange.
>
> E.g.#1: In 1967, you (and your generation) were rocking your society
> loose, if not upside down. In my society people were killing each other, my
> mother had to arrange us to sleep on the floor because bullets were flying
> outside our windows. Mao's Cultural Revolution was from 1966 to his death
> in 1976. When you guys were able to chase scientific knowledge and explore
> space, my generation had a top priority to survive both biologically and
> psychologically, the later we call "a prison break" from Marxist ideology
> (by the way, effectively through learning
> systemics/cybernetics/informatics).
>
> E.g.#2: Around 1988 I came to a same point as your Lucifer Principle by
> publishing about "dual-phase principle," i.e. Self-Disorganization versus
> Self-Organization that works like a pendulum in living systems, spontaneous
> order emergence versus sudden loss of order and redefining "system" through
> an order-less state - like a chicken hatched to the point to break that
> shell. However, the "Lucifer" concept was neither aware by me at that time
> nor a good/positive image in Western culture, if you would agree.
>
> E.g.#3: Your 595-page Table of Content invokes a "JJH number" I had been
> advocating to my intellectual friends. It is "1-54-372." "1" means the one
> sentence that you would like to carve on your tombstone - what would it be?
> "54" means that we produced a deck of poke cards with one quotation of you
> on the back of each card - so kids could learn them when they play card
> games. What would be your most important 54 quotes? "372" happens to be the
> pages of a book from a colleague, an advisor of my company, that I
> translated and published in Chinese for our clients. The title of that book
> is "Ackoff's Best."  So the question to you is, given a 372-page limit,
> what content would you select to put into this book named "Bloom's Best"?
>
> I hope if you could consider this number seriously and perhaps make a
> difference in your current priorities/working agendas, and consider
> accepting my invitation to join Club of Remy discussions (clubofremy.org
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jF0agBChy$>),
> for "important and urgent" issues of our time.
>
> For example, I hope, if possible, to get people like John Mearsheimer,
> Alex Dugin, and you to our Zoom to discuss "where our civilization is going
> (in next 10 years)" or things like that. I'm also interested in why you
> chose that communist hat to wear - is that from China or from Russia... I
> might have something with a similar icon in my souvenir closet too.... It
> must be an interesting discussion!
>
> Apologies for the long message, but I just wanted to share some "oxygen of
> attention" with you so we might be able to work out something interesting.
>
> Best regards - Jason
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 11:35 PM Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> jason, you have an amazing life story and an amazing ability to write
>> with utmost clarity.
>>
>> i've downloaded your power point and will hopefully have time to enjoy
>> myself with it friday or saturday.
>>
>> with warmth and oomph--howard
>>
>> On Sunday, March 2, 2025 at 10:59:27 PM EST, Jason Hu <
>> jasonthegoodman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Howard,
>> Glad to meet the virtual you - and thank you for your kind praise. I did
>> run into your jargon of "omnology," and asked my RA (not Research
>> Assistant, but Robot Assistant) what it means. I got a number of Chinese
>> interpretations: 全知学，宝藏学，博学，全学，which means "Know-it-all-logy,
>> Treasureology, Broad-PhD-ics, and Everything-whole-ics."  I was born in a
>> remote province in south China and we had a local dialect, so I suddenly
>> got it in our dialect: "万金油“ - literally "Ten-thousands-gold-oil," the name
>> of a special ointment that said to cure a lot of sicknesses (from headaches
>> to mosquito bites to car sickness to fever etc., English name Tiger Balm.
>> Its usefulness has surpassed traditional medicine in social dynamics -
>> during my second escape (through the USSR and Berlin Wall) from China in
>> the summer of 1989, my ex-wife and I carried two types of bribery currency
>> - small bottles of vodka and a full bag of "Ten-thousands-gold-oil" (they
>> are little red metal cases just a bit larger than a quarter but thicker).
>> On that 7 day long trip in USSR, for bigger trouble we gift a vodka, for
>> small convience we tip one Tiger Balm. Works magic! I'm sharing this with
>> you because in my local dialect, this same name is used to call an
>> omnologist! A person who "knows-it-all!"
>>
>> That story told, I do share the same interests in "those emergent
>> properties" that we encounter in all kinds of complex systems - from what's
>> going on inside one brain to social dynamics and organization behaviors all
>> the way to the evolution of our civilization, there are a number of
>> specific research agenda that are attracting my attention. But one
>> understanding from my learning might cause me to be not compatible with
>> your omnology, which is "the Localness Limit of X," (X={consciousness,
>> cognition, knowledge, science, rationality, & wisdom})  (Sorry for the
>> simplest/easiest form of math.) I've attached a PPT about this point in
>> case you're interested in continuing the discussion.
>>
>> Best regards - Jason
>> ------------------------------------
>> Jason Jixuan Hu, Ph.D.
>> Independent Research Scholar
>> Organizer: Club of REMY:  https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Qo6HmPSnMiXAVYi_BrtjXvp83N6oJOPQ_5RUu26UIZMzBmVc3Yz7UAXIZBEMMLJZDNCnAL5ZoHAD1CnL$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.clubofremy.org/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jFxAFJ4KS$>
>>
>> General Partner: WINTOP Group: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.wintopgroup.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Qo6HmPSnMiXAVYi_BrtjXvp83N6oJOPQ_5RUu26UIZMzBmVc3Yz7UAXIZBEMMLJZDNCnAL5ZoEZtD-Ng$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.wintopgroup.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jF-RnkKY3$>
>>
>> Introduction: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drjasonhu.com__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Qo6HmPSnMiXAVYi_BrtjXvp83N6oJOPQ_5RUu26UIZMzBmVc3Yz7UAXIZBEMMLJZDNCnAL5ZoJbLb3UH$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drjasonhu.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jFwFEog1-$>
>> Wiki Page: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJH008__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Qo6HmPSnMiXAVYi_BrtjXvp83N6oJOPQ_5RUu26UIZMzBmVc3Yz7UAXIZBEMMLJZDNCnAL5ZoCxHw87l$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJH008__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jFyG58I07$>
>>
>> Video: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJHsprach__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Qo6HmPSnMiXAVYi_BrtjXvp83N6oJOPQ_5RUu26UIZMzBmVc3Yz7UAXIZBEMMLJZDNCnAL5ZoCDMzbiC$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJHsprach__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jF8PnvymL$>
>> office: jjh at wintopgroup.com
>> mobile: jasonthegoodman at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 5:23 PM Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> jason--extremely well written contribution.  in clear language with
>> scarcely any jargon.
>>
>> enclosed is the mystery i'm exploring with all my heart.  it starts like
>> this:
>>
>>
>> There is a massive mystery hiding in science.  A mystery called emergent
>> properties.  Plus the mystery of one of the most important of those
>> emergent properties—you.  Your identity.  And how it has managed to
>> sustain itself despite the fact that you’ve gone from a baby to a toddler
>> to a child to a teenager, to a young adult, with middle age and old age in
>> your future somewhere.  Despite all of your physical properties changing
>> dramatically—from your height and weight to your brainpower and your
>> athletic abilities—the 80 trillion constantly changing cells of you have
>> managed to pull off the illusion of being just one person, just one special
>> person, with the name you go by. So which is really real, your constantly
>> changing mass of cells and your steadily shifting physical properties or
>> your identity, your you?
>>
>>
>> with warmth and oomph--howard
>>
>>
>> __________________________
>> Howard Bloom
>> The Howard Bloom Institute
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://howardbloom.institute__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Qo6HmPSnMiXAVYi_BrtjXvp83N6oJOPQ_5RUu26UIZMzBmVc3Yz7UAXIZBEMMLJZDNCnAL5ZoKeGo08U$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://howardbloom.institute__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jFxOVVL59$>
>> Author of: The Case of the Sexual Cosmos: Everything You Know About
>> Nature is Wrong, coming March, 2025 ("A massive achievement, WOW!"  Richard
>> Foreman, MacArthur Genius Award Winner, Officer of the Order of Arts &
>> Letters, France)
>> Previous books: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the
>> Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post),
>> Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st
>> Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),
>> The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A
>> tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The
>> Atlantic),
>> The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will
>> rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),
>> How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!”
>> Timothy Leary),
>> The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.”
>> David Swindle, PJ Media),
>> Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search  for Soul in the Power Pits of
>> Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager
>> of Michael Jackson and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York Weekly Times
>>
>> A Quartz Magazine Pro
>> Professor of Practice, Kepler Space University
>> Co-founder, The Asian Space Technology Summit
>> Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York
>> University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute;
>> Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space
>> Development Steering Committee.  Member Of Board Of Governors, National
>> Space Society. Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society. Founding
>> Board Member, The Darwin Project.
>>
>> BRIC-TV's 66-minute film, The Grand Unified Theory of Howard Bloom,
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atYmiEZ6YDU__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Qo6HmPSnMiXAVYi_BrtjXvp83N6oJOPQ_5RUu26UIZMzBmVc3Yz7UAXIZBEMMLJZDNCnAL5ZoAksfrUQ$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atYmiEZ6YDU__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jF_6grydF$>
>> Best Picture, Science Design Film Festival. Best Documentary Feature, Not
>> Film Festival, Italy. Available  on Apple TV, Amazon, Google Play,
>> Microsoft, Vimeo, Vudu, and Fandango.
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, March 2, 2025 at 11:10:09 AM EST, Jason Hu <
>> jasonthegoodman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Were such debates already finished by Popper (demarcation through
>> falsification)? Or by Wittgenstein (Shut up - (if you run out of correct
>> language))?
>>
>> I agree with Howard that math is just "one of many" but not "only"
>> language. There exist, say, music and emotional gestures (such as what we
>> just saw in the drama in the White House two days ago), dances, arts,
>> architecture, etc. You count them.
>>
>> One Russian scientist said long ago that the wings of science are
>> methodologies, and facts are like air. Without air, wings cannot work. Now,
>> what is this thing called "fact"?
>>
>> It is the stable eigenstate reachable by our cognitive system.
>>
>> Recently, the phenomenon of the LLM's tendency to confabulate has been
>> highlighted. I think it is like a mirror for us to re-examine our cognitive
>> system (and our rationality). How reliable is it, actually?
>>
>> Is anyone here interested in discussing possible types of
>> rationality/science and the role/position of math and logic? In the context
>> of "Information" or "Informatics", of course. But I tend to collect
>> Informatics and Systemics and Cybernetics together in a 3-D or 4-D
>> framework (adding time), at least as a thought experiment.
>>
>> Best regards - Jason
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 5:00 AM Pedro C. Marijuán <
>> pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>>
>> Some days ago there was a thought-provoking exchange between two FISers
>> which I was incidentally following-- Howard Bloom and Andrei Igamberdiev.
>> The argument was about an essay --with a critical stance on the vulgar use
>> of the second law-- that Howard had written to be published in the Journal
>> BioSystems, the chief editor of which is Andrei. They have allowed me to
>> compile the whole exchange (the initial essay is not included). Here it is:
>>
>>
>> *--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
>>
>> *Andrei's comments on Howard's manuscript:*
>> Dear Howard,
>> I have read your manuscript with great interest. I like many ideas and
>> challenging points expressed in it. Your criticism of the Second Law is
>> based on important arguments that should be analyzed in detail and
>> evaluated by the scientific community.
>> However, as I mentioned in my previous letter, this style and arrangement
>> of the paper is not suitable for a journal specializing in natural science
>> such as BioSystems, and probably for any other similar journal.  It is more
>> suitable for a journal specializing in philosophy or a popular scientific
>> magazine discussing hot topics in modern science.
>> You are suggesting that the concept of entropy and the Second Law are
>> wrong completely. However, they work for ergodic systems, i.e. the systems
>> having the property that, given sufficient time, they include or impinge on
>> all points in a given space and can be represented statistically by a
>> reasonably large selection of points. Definitely, the Universe as a whole
>> is not ergodic, and it may be possible to prove that living systems are
>> also not ergodic. Thus, the Second Law and the concept of entropy have
>> severe limitations that are often not considered by scientists.
>> Robert Rosen discussed this idea but very briefly. In particular, he
>> mentioned that complexity is not the objective property of the system but
>> it is the characteristics arising from its description (including the
>> internal description by the system itself). He criticized the concept of
>> entropy from this point.  Recently, Stuart Kauffman attempted to limit the
>> Second Law and to formulate the Fourth Law that he is considering as more
>> general. You can check his papers (see, e.g., Kauffman, S., 2022. Is There
>> a Fourth Law for Non-Ergodic Systems That Do Work to Construct Their
>> Expanding Phase Space? Entropy (Basel) 24(10), 1383.
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.3390/e24101383__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Qo6HmPSnMiXAVYi_BrtjXvp83N6oJOPQ_5RUu26UIZMzBmVc3Yz7UAXIZBEMMLJZDNCnAL5ZoAeWN6N-$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.3390/e24101383__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!X_TnWreE2VnrNpXNmanG239L-iTIsfU9RUiO1BL80Mit-J9e3SqGppF5gLgMr140kwtoJ_KWPm2jrHSEhJJ7pfoUjIQr$>
>> Thus, in my opinion, it is really important to analyze the assumptions
>> taken for the formulation of the Second Law and the possible limitations
>> connected to it. It is more productive to concentrate on possible
>> limitations of the Second Law Instead of claiming that it is wrong. I don’t
>> see this development in your paper. The Law of Flamboyance is suggested
>> vaguely without any definite physical formulation. This presentation may be
>> useful for general philosophical discussion but not as an introduction it
>> as a new physical law.  The paper contains many interesting references to
>> the debates of famous scientists, which would be useful for a popular
>> scientific publication, however, in its current form it is not suitable for
>> BioSystems or another journal with a similar scope.
>> I am sorry for not being supportive at this time, but your interesting
>> essay does not fit the scope of BioSystems.
>> With best regards,
>> Andrei
>>
>> *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
>> *Howard's response: *
>> andrei, hi,
>>
>> thanks for an extremely thought provoking, generous, and engaging
>> turndown.
>>
>> i look forward to the next time we have an opportunity to communicate.
>>
>> with warmth and oomph--howard
>>
>> ps.  here's what your extraordinarily knowledgeable thoughts have prodded
>> me to:
>>
>> MIT physicist and cosmologist Max Tegmark says that math is the
>> universe.  and many believe that ideas without a mathematical foundation
>> are not science.
>> Jesus had an opinion on this sort of thing.  he said about the strictness
>> of the high priests of his day, the sabbath was made for man, not man for
>> the sabbath.  the same is true of mathematics in science.  math is a tool
>> of science.  science is not a tool of mathematics.
>>
>> in other words, often math helps us understand the cosmos.  but the
>> living things in the cosmos vastly outstrip our math.  Newton was able to
>> reduce the solar system to math.  but if darwn had been forced to
>> mathematize his origin of species, there would have been no evolution.  no
>> darwinism.  no origin of species.
>>
>> which explains more, newton's principia or darwin's origin?  in reality,
>> they are both potent tools of understanding.  but the number of puzzles
>> that neither of them can solve is vast.
>>
>> each of them--Darwin's approach and Newton's-- is far more limited than
>> it imagines.  and math is far more limited in its powers than today's
>> scientific community thinks.
>>
>> it's important to keep this in mind: newton's principia has almost no
>> equal signs. in other words, newton did not have modern algebraic
>> equations.  he expressed his laws with the math of his day: geometry,
>> ratios,diagrams, and verbal reasoning.  today it would be said that
>> newton's principia is not sufficiently mathematical to be taken as serious
>> science.
>>
>> we forget that the equation was only invented in 1557 and only put to
>> common use 80 years later.  in other words, our math is primitive.  it's
>> the equivalent of the first collection of stone tools 3.2 million years
>> ago, the oldowan stone toolkit.
>>
>> the new developments in math 300 years from now will startle us.  but
>> science will still be mistaken if it imagines that all that we see and know
>> can be expressed in equations.
>>
>> tegmark is wrong.  the cosmos is not a product of math.  math is a
>> product of the cosmos. and the most startling thing in this universe, life,
>> is ahead of the meager grasp of equations by light-years.
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andrei's response:*
>> Hi Howard,
>> thank you for your engaging response. I completely agree with you
>> regarding Max Tegmark. Together with Joseph Brenner, I tried to express the
>> views on mathematics that are completely opposite to Tegmark's, in our book
>> "Philosophy in Reality" (Springer, 2021). However, in the scientific
>> discourse, it is difficult to develop the framework to describe the origin
>> of mathematics as we use the reasoning that assumes the existence of some
>> formal structures before they develop in reality. We can further discuss
>> possible solutions of this paradox.
>> I will look forward to our future communication.
>> With warmest regards,
>> Andrei
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *Final Note: *
>> What Howard wrote to Andrei was turned into an article and posted it on
>> substack.  The announcement of that article on X got a quarter million
>> views.
>>
>> see
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://howardxbloom.substack.com/p/why-math-must-not-godzilla-science__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Qo6HmPSnMiXAVYi_BrtjXvp83N6oJOPQ_5RUu26UIZMzBmVc3Yz7UAXIZBEMMLJZDNCnAL5ZoLCsWUIU$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://howardxbloom.substack.com/p/why-math-must-not-godzilla-science__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!X_TnWreE2VnrNpXNmanG239L-iTIsfU9RUiO1BL80Mit-J9e3SqGppF5gLgMr140kwtoJ_KWPm2jrHSEhJJ7pccCyLRx$>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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