<div dir="ltr"><div><div style="font-size:large" class="gmail_default">Without a doubt! – mapping emergence is the single greatest unanswered scientific challenge!</div><div style="font-size:large" class="gmail_default">Any details/references you have to offer on progress on *formally* mapping emergence are greatly appreciated.</div><div style="font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-size:large" class="gmail_default">Marcus</div><br clear="all"></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:proxima-nova-1,proxima-nova-2,Tahoma,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(51,51,51);line-height:18px"><tbody style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><tr 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style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(43,130,173);text-decoration:none;display:inline-block" target="_blank"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;border-spacing:0px"><tbody style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><tr style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><td align="left" valign="top" style="padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:top;width:auto;line-height:1"><img alt="--" width="0" height="0" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;display:block;width:0px;height:0px;overflow:hidden"><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:bold;font-style:inherit;font-size:18px;font-family:proxima-nova-1,Proxima-Nova,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;line-height:1;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Marcus Abundis</div><div style="margin:3px 0px 0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-size:12px;font-family:proxima-nova-1,Proxima-Nova,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline"><img alt="http://" width="0" height="0" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;display:block;width:0px;height:0px;overflow:hidden">about.me/marcus.abundis</div></td></tr><tr style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><td align="left" valign="top" style="padding:8px 0px 0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:top;width:auto;line-height:1"><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;text-align:right;background-color:rgb(197,208,224);height:4px"><img src="http://d13pix9kaak6wt.cloudfront.net/signature/colorbar.png" alt="" width="88" height="4" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;float:right;display:block"></div></td></tr></tbody></table></a> </div></td></tr><tr style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><td style="padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-size:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;width:auto;height:20px"><br></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 6:47 AM Jason Hu <<a href="mailto:jasonthegoodman@gmail.com">jasonthegoodman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Dear Howard,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Waiting for your opinion on the PPT I sent you last time, I have been able to watch your movie during my waiting time to upgrade my laptop (from 16G/1T/4core/8logical processors to 32G/2T/16cores/22logical processors). It is indeed as amazing as your perception of my life; thus, I need to write you more about the fact that we came from very different societies; therefore, we might have a lot to exchange. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">E.g.#1: In 1967, you (and your generation) were rocking your society loose, if not upside down. In my society people were killing each other, my mother had to arrange us to sleep on the floor because bullets were flying outside our windows. Mao's Cultural Revolution was from 1966 to his death in 1976. When you guys were able to chase scientific knowledge and explore space, my generation had a top priority to survive both biologically and psychologically, the later we call "a prison break" from Marxist ideology (by the way, effectively through learning systemics/cybernetics/informatics). </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">E.g.#2: Around 1988 I came to a same point as your Lucifer Principle by publishing about "dual-phase principle," i.e. Self-Disorganization versus Self-Organization that works like a pendulum in living systems, spontaneous order emergence versus sudden loss of order and redefining "system" through an order-less state - like a chicken hatched to the point to break that shell. However, the "Lucifer" concept was neither aware by me at that time nor a good/positive image in Western culture, if you would agree.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">E.g.#3: Your 595-page Table of Content invokes a "JJH number" I had been advocating to my intellectual friends. It is "1-54-372." "1" means the one sentence that you would like to carve on your tombstone - what would it be? "54" means that we produced a deck of poke cards with one quotation of you on the back of each card - so kids could learn them when they play card games. What would be your most important 54 quotes? "372" happens to be the pages of a book from a colleague, an advisor of my company, that I translated and published in Chinese for our clients. The title of that book is "Ackoff's Best." So the question to you is, given a 372-page limit, what content would you select to put into this book named "Bloom's Best"?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">I hope if you could consider this number seriously and perhaps make a difference in your current priorities/working agendas, and consider accepting my invitation to join Club of Remy discussions (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://clubofremy.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jF0agBChy$" target="_blank">clubofremy.org</a>), for "important and urgent" issues of our time. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">For example, I hope, if possible, to get people like John Mearsheimer, Alex Dugin, and you to our Zoom to discuss "where our civilization is going (in next 10 years)" or things like that. I'm also interested in why you chose that communist hat to wear - is that from China or from Russia... I might have something with a similar icon in my souvenir closet too.... It must be an interesting discussion!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Apologies for the long message, but I just wanted to share some "oxygen of attention" with you so we might be able to work out something interesting.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Best regards - Jason</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 11:35 PM Howard Bloom <<a href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com" target="_blank">howlbloom@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:24px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">jason, you have an amazing life story and an amazing ability to write with utmost clarity.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">i've downloaded your power point and will hopefully have time to enjoy myself with it friday or saturday.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><span>with warmth and oomph--howard</span><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Sunday, March 2, 2025 at 10:59:27 PM EST, Jason Hu <<a href="mailto:jasonthegoodman@gmail.com" target="_blank">jasonthegoodman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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<div><div id="m_434357422692618534m_6384330095983529650ydp2c2d5702yiv9712793950"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:large">Hi Howard, </div><div style="font-size:large">Glad to meet the virtual you - and thank you for your kind praise. I did run into your jargon of "omnology," and asked my RA (not Research Assistant, but Robot Assistant) what it means. I got a number of Chinese interpretations: 全知学，宝藏学，博学，全学，which means "Know-it-all-logy, Treasureology, Broad-PhD-ics, and Everything-whole-ics." I was born in a remote province in south China and we had a local dialect, so I suddenly got it in our dialect: "万金油“ - literally "Ten-thousands-gold-oil," the name of a special ointment that said to cure a lot of sicknesses (from headaches to mosquito bites to car sickness to fever etc., English name Tiger Balm. Its usefulness has surpassed traditional medicine in social dynamics - during my second escape (through the USSR and Berlin Wall) from China in the summer of 1989, my ex-wife and I carried two types of bribery currency - small bottles of vodka and a full bag of "Ten-thousands-gold-oil" (they are little red metal cases just a bit larger than a quarter but thicker). On that 7 day long trip in USSR, for bigger trouble we gift a vodka, for small convience we tip one Tiger Balm. Works magic! I'm sharing this with you because in my local dialect, this same name is used to call an omnologist! A person who "knows-it-all!"</div><div style="font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:large">That story told, I do share the same interests in "those emergent properties" that we encounter in all kinds of complex systems - from what's going on inside one brain to social dynamics and organization behaviors all the way to the evolution of our civilization, there are a number of specific research agenda that are attracting my attention. But one understanding from my learning might cause me to be not compatible with your omnology, which is "the Localness Limit of X," (X={consciousness, cognition, knowledge, science, rationality, & wisdom}) (Sorry for the simplest/easiest form of math.) I've attached a PPT about this point in case you're interested in continuing the discussion.</div><div style="font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:large">Best regards - Jason</div><div style="font-size:large"><div style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:x-small">------------------------------------</span></div><div style="font-size:small"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" size="1">Jason Jixuan Hu, Ph.D.</font></div><div><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" size="1">Independent Research Scholar </font></div><div><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" size="1">Organizer: Club of REMY: <a shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.clubofremy.org/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jFxAFJ4KS$" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.clubofremy.org</a> </font></div><div><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" size="1">General Partner: WINTOP Group: <a shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.wintopgroup.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jF-RnkKY3$" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.wintopgroup.com</a> </font></div><div><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" size="1">Introduction: <a shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drjasonhu.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jFwFEog1-$" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://drjasonhu.com</a><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" size="1">Wiki Page: <a shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJH008__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jFyG58I07$" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://tinyurl.com/JJH008</a> </font><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:x-small"> </span></div><div><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" size="1">Video: <a shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/JJHsprach__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jF8PnvymL$" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://tinyurl.com/JJHsprach</a></font></div><div><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" size="1">office: <a shape="rect" href="mailto:jjh@wintopgroup.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jjh@wintopgroup.com</a></font></div><div><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" size="1">mobile: <a shape="rect" href="mailto:jasonthegoodman@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jasonthegoodman@gmail.com</a></font></div><div><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" size="1">---------------------------------------------------</font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><div id="m_434357422692618534m_6384330095983529650ydp2c2d5702yiv9712793950yqt06579"><div><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 5:23 PM Howard Bloom <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">howlbloom@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:24px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">jason--extremely well written contribution. in clear language with scarcely any jargon.</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">enclosed is the mystery i'm exploring with all my heart. it starts like this:</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:medium;padding:0px"><div style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:24px"><div dir="ltr"><span></span><div style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">There
is a massive mystery hiding in science.<span>
</span>A mystery called emergent properties.<span>
</span>Plus the mystery of one of the most important of those emergent
properties—you.<span> </span>Your identity.<span> </span>And how it has managed to sustain itself
despite the fact that you’ve gone from a baby to a toddler to a child to a
teenager, to a young adult, with middle age and old age in your future somewhere.<span> </span>Despite all of your physical properties
changing dramatically—from your height and weight to your brainpower and your athletic
abilities—the 80 trillion constantly changing cells of you have managed to pull
off the illusion of being just one person, just one special person, with the
name you go by. So which is really real, your constantly changing mass of cells
and your steadily shifting physical properties or your identity, your you?<span> </span></span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><font face="Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:18.6667px"><br clear="none"></span></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:18.6667px"><span>with warmth and oomph--howard</span><br clear="none"></span></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:18.6667px"></span></font><div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>__________________________</div><div>Howard Bloom</div><div>The Howard Bloom Institute</div><div><a shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://howardbloom.institute__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jFxOVVL59$" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://howardbloom.institute</a></div><div>Author of: The Case of the Sexual Cosmos: Everything You Know About Nature is Wrong, coming March, 2025 ("A massive achievement, WOW!" Richard Foreman, MacArthur Genius Award Winner, Officer of the Order of Arts & Letters, France)</div><div>Previous books: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post), </div><div>Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),</div><div>The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic), </div><div>The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),</div><div>How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!” Timothy Leary),</div><div>The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.” David Swindle, PJ Media),</div><div>Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search for Soul in the Power Pits of Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager of Michael Jackson and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York Weekly Times </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>A Quartz Magazine Pro</div><div>Professor of Practice, Kepler Space University </div><div>Co-founder, The Asian Space Technology Summit</div><div>Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; </div><div>Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space Development Steering Committee. Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society. Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society. Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>BRIC-TV's 66-minute film, The Grand Unified Theory of Howard Bloom, <a shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atYmiEZ6YDU__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tx7lFXBCePYiTpVEdPoDOCchukf-YKvsxYqP8-77IibddZy4J7ruK1InEuSIVAwV2Ovcx30r2A0HhWGewp9jF_6grydF$" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atYmiEZ6YDU</a></div><div>Best Picture, Science Design Film Festival. Best Documentary Feature, Not Film Festival, Italy. Available on Apple TV, Amazon, Google Play, Microsoft, Vimeo, Vudu, and Fandango.</div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div><div style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:24px"><div><br clear="none"></div>
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On Sunday, March 2, 2025 at 11:10:09 AM EST, Jason Hu <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:jasonthegoodman@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jasonthegoodman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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<div><div id="m_434357422692618534m_6384330095983529650ydp2c2d5702yiv9712793950m_-277704428388968302ydpa7ef90a7yiv5582871272"><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:large">Were such debates already finished by Popper (demarcation through falsification)? Or by Wittgenstein (Shut up - (if you run out of correct language))?</div><div style="font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:large">I agree with Howard that math is just "one of many" but not "only" language. There exist, say, music and emotional gestures (such as what we just saw in the drama in the White House two days ago), dances, arts, architecture, etc. You count them.</div><div style="font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:large">One Russian scientist said long ago that the wings of science are methodologies, and facts are like air. Without air, wings cannot work. Now, what is this thing called "fact"?</div><div style="font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:large">It is the stable eigenstate reachable by our cognitive system. </div><div style="font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:large">Recently, the phenomenon of the LLM's tendency to confabulate has been highlighted. I think it is like a mirror for us to re-examine our cognitive system (and our rationality). How reliable is it, actually? </div><div style="font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:large">Is anyone here interested in discussing possible types of rationality/science and the role/position of math and logic? In the context of "Information" or "Informatics", of course. But I tend to collect Informatics and Systemics and Cybernetics together in a 3-D or 4-D framework (adding time), at least as a thought experiment.</div><div style="font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:large">Best regards - Jason </div></div><br clear="none"><div><div id="m_434357422692618534m_6384330095983529650ydp2c2d5702yiv9712793950m_-277704428388968302ydpa7ef90a7yiv5582871272yqt85798"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 5:00 AM Pedro C. Marijuán <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">pedroc.marijuan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
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<p><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">Dear FIS Colleagues,</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">Some days ago there was
a thought-provoking exchange between two FISers which I was
incidentally following-- Howard Bloom and Andrei Igamberdiev.
The argument was about an essay --with a critical stance on the
vulgar use of the second law-- that Howard had written to be
published in the Journal BioSystems, the chief editor of which
is Andrei. They have allowed me to compile the whole exchange
(the initial essay is not included). Here it is:</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1"><i><b>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</b></i></font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1"><i><b>Andrei's comments
on Howard's manuscript:</b></i></font></p>
<div style="line-height:1.284;margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">
Dear Howard,</font></div>
<div style="line-height:1.284;margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">
I have read your manuscript with great interest. I like many
ideas and challenging points expressed in it. Your criticism of
the Second Law is based on important arguments that should be
analyzed in detail and evaluated by the scientific community.</font></div>
<div style="line-height:1.284;margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">
However, as I mentioned in my previous letter, this style and
arrangement of the paper is not suitable for a journal
specializing in natural science such as BioSystems, and probably
for any other similar journal. It is more suitable for a
journal specializing in philosophy or a popular scientific
magazine discussing hot topics in modern science.</font></div>
<div style="line-height:1.284;margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">
You are suggesting that the concept of entropy and the Second
Law are wrong completely. However, they work for ergodic
systems, i.e. the systems having the property that, given
sufficient time, they include or impinge on all points in a
given space and can be represented statistically by a reasonably
large selection of points. Definitely, the Universe as a whole
is not ergodic, and it may be possible to prove that living
systems are also not ergodic. Thus, the Second Law and the
concept of entropy have severe limitations that are often not
considered by scientists.</font></div>
<div style="line-height:1.284;margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">
Robert Rosen discussed this idea but very briefly. In
particular, he mentioned that complexity is not the objective
property of the system but it is the characteristics arising
from its description (including the internal description by the
system itself). He criticized the concept of entropy from this
point. Recently, Stuart Kauffman attempted to limit the Second
Law and to formulate the Fourth Law that he is considering as
more general. You can check his papers (see, e.g., Kauffman, S.,
2022. Is There a Fourth Law for Non-Ergodic Systems That Do Work
to Construct Their Expanding Phase Space? Entropy (Basel)
24(10), 1383. <a shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.3390/e24101383__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!X_TnWreE2VnrNpXNmanG239L-iTIsfU9RUiO1BL80Mit-J9e3SqGppF5gLgMr140kwtoJ_KWPm2jrHSEhJJ7pfoUjIQr$" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://doi.org/10.3390/e24101383</a></font></div>
<div style="line-height:1.284;margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">
Thus, in my opinion, it is really important to analyze the
assumptions taken for the formulation of the Second Law and the
possible limitations connected to it. It is more productive to
concentrate on possible limitations of the Second Law Instead of
claiming that it is wrong. I don’t see this development in your
paper. The Law of Flamboyance is suggested vaguely without any
definite physical formulation. This presentation may be useful
for general philosophical discussion but not as an introduction
it as a new physical law. The paper contains many interesting
references to the debates of famous scientists, which would be
useful for a popular scientific publication, however, in its
current form it is not suitable for BioSystems or another
journal with a similar scope.</font></div>
<div style="line-height:1.284;margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">
I am sorry for not being supportive at this time, but your
interesting essay does not fit the scope of BioSystems.</font></div>
<div style="line-height:1.284;margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">
With best regards,</font></div>
<div style="line-height:1.284;margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">
Andrei</font></div>
<div style="line-height:1.284;margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1"><b>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</b></font></div>
<div style="line-height:1.284;margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1"><i><b>Howard's
response: </b></i><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div style="line-height:1.284;margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">andrei, hi,</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">thanks for an extremely thought provoking, generous,
and engaging turndown.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">i look forward to the next time we have an
opportunity to communicate.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">with warmth and oomph--howard<br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<p dir="ltr"><font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="1">ps. here's what your extraordinarily knowledgeable
thoughts have prodded me to:</font></p>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:medium;padding:0px">
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:24px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<p dir="ltr"><font size="1">MIT
physicist and cosmologist Max Tegmark says that math
is the universe. and many believe that ideas without
a mathematical foundation are not science.</font></p>
<div><font size="1">Jesus had an opinion on this sort of
thing. he said about the strictness of the high
priests of his day, the sabbath was made for man, not
man for the sabbath. the same is true of mathematics
in science. math is a tool of science. science is
not a tool of mathematics. </font></div>
<div><font size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="1">in other
words, often math helps us understand the cosmos. but
the living things in the cosmos vastly outstrip our
math. Newton was able to reduce the solar system to
math. but if darwn had been forced to mathematize his
origin of species, there would have been no
evolution. no darwinism. no origin of species.</font></div>
<div><font size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="1">which explains more, newton's
principia or darwin's origin? in reality, they are
both potent tools of understanding. but the number of
puzzles that neither of them can solve is vast. </font></div>
<div><font size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="1">each of them--Darwin's approach and
Newton's-- is far more limited than it imagines. and
math is far more limited in its powers than today's
scientific community thinks. </font></div>
<div><font size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="1">it's
important to keep this in mind: newton's principia has
almost no equal signs. in other words, newton did not
have modern algebraic equations. he expressed his
laws with the math of his day: geometry,
ratios,diagrams, and verbal reasoning. today it would
be said that newton's principia is not sufficiently
mathematical to be taken as serious science.</font></div>
<div><font size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="1">we forget that the equation was only
invented in 1557 and only put to common use 80 years
later. in other words, our math is primitive. it's
the equivalent of the first collection of stone tools
3.2 million years ago, the oldowan stone toolkit. </font></div>
<div><font size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="1">the new developments in math 300 years
from now will startle us. but science will still be
mistaken if it imagines that all that we see and know
can be expressed in equations.</font></div>
</div>
<div><font size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="1">tegmark is
wrong. the cosmos is not a product of math. math is a
product of the cosmos. and the most startling thing in
this universe, life, is ahead of the meager grasp of
equations by light-years.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="1">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="1"><i><b>Andrei's
response:</b></i></font></div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="2">
Hi Howard,</font></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="2">
thank you for your engaging response. I completely
agree with you regarding Max Tegmark. Together with
Joseph Brenner, I tried to express the views on
mathematics that are completely opposite to Tegmark's,
in our book "Philosophy in Reality" (Springer, 2021).
However, in the scientific discourse, it is difficult
to develop the framework to describe the origin of
mathematics as we use the reasoning that assumes the
existence of some formal structures before they
develop in reality. We can further discuss possible
solutions of this paradox.</font></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="2">
I will look forward to our future communication. </font></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="2">
With warmest regards,</font></div>
<font size="2">Andrei <br clear="none">
</font></div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><font size="1">------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<b><br clear="none">
</b></font>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="1"><b><i>Final
Note: <br clear="none">
</i> </b></font>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="1">What
Howard wrote to Andrei was turned into an article
and posted it on substack. The announcement of
that article on X got a quarter million views.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="1"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="1">see <a shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://howardxbloom.substack.com/p/why-math-must-not-godzilla-science__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!X_TnWreE2VnrNpXNmanG239L-iTIsfU9RUiO1BL80Mit-J9e3SqGppF5gLgMr140kwtoJ_KWPm2jrHSEhJJ7pccCyLRx$" style="letter-spacing:-0.02em" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://howardxbloom.substack.com/p/why-math-must-not-godzilla-science</a><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="1">------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br clear="none">
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p></p>
</div>
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