[Fis] Fwd: Re: Howard Bloom GPT - The potential for science and education -Gravity's fall

[Pedro C. Marijuán]

(Due to apparent malfunction of the list server, I am reentering this 
interesting exchange from John Torday and others --Pedro)


-------- Mensaje reenviado --------
Asunto: 	Re: [Fis] Howard Bloom GPT - The potential for science and 
education -Gravity's fall
Fecha: 	Thu, 17 Apr 2025 11:34:53 -0400
De: 	JOHN TORDAY <jtorday at ucla.edu>
Para: 	Eric Werner <eric.werner at oarf.org>, fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>



Eric, with respect, evolution must be seen in the context of the 
'history' of the organism and its environment..... how/why those 
changes have affected physiology from the outset of 
life.Mechanistically, when cells experience dyshomeostasis, they produce 
Radical Oxygen Species that cause gene mutations and duplications that 
mediate remodeling in order to regain equipoise. Microgravity 
experiments demonstrate the _necessity for the force of gravity_ in the 
evolution of physiology. Subsequently, gravity came into play when the 
Phanerozoic 'greenhouse effect' caused fish to adapt to land, causing 
the duplication of three hormone receptor genes- PTHrP, glucocorticoid 
and beta-adrenergic- all necessary for the adaptation to land life…. 
specifically for skeletal 'hardening' to support the body weight due to 
increased gravity, alveolarizatioin of the lung, and the fish kidney 
forming glomeruli for water-salt balance. If you delete the PTHrP the 
newborn mouse will die for lack of alveoli.

Best, John




On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 7:59 AM Eric Werner <eric.werner at oarf.org> wrote:

    Dear Jason,

    Spot on. Gravity may be a necessary condition but not sufficient.

    -Eric

    On 4/7/25 5:43 PM, Jason Hu wrote:
>     Hi John, your hypothesis is indeed creative, but it still does not
>     explain "JSP" yet... On the other hand, what is that tiny
>     difference of gravity effect on the brain of a fox and the brain
>     of a giraffe?  Or, are people living near the sea less
>     smarter/less developed than people living in the high mountains -
>     since they experience different gravity? On the other other hand,
>     we know that birds use magnetic fields to navigate their long
>     journeys. On the third other hand, I think there are many
>     different layers of self-organizing processes between what's going
>     on at Planck Scale and what's going on at our neuron cells level,
>     so, is that too sweeping a guess if you link quantum physics with
>     consciousness directly?
>     The fundamental difference between two forms of life - animals vs.
>     plants, I think it is not if the "brain" forms closer to the earth
>     or not, but in the way we obtain energy needed to run life. Plants
>     "eat" sunlight and CO2 directly, we don't but we eat other life
>     forms. This distinction happens at a very early stage of life
>     forms (bacterias), unfortunately we (animals) are bad guys by
>     definition - we eat other lifes/proteins to live, right? That is a
>     much bigger difference than the distance of our brains towards the
>     center of gravity of our planet.
>     Cheers - Jason
>
>     On Mon, Apr 7, 2025 at 4:50 AM JOHN TORDAY <jtorday at ucla.edu> wrote:
>
>         Hi Jason, in reply, that is a very interesting observation you
>         made regarding the effect of that magnet placed between your
>         eyes. The fact that the left eye innervates the right occiput,
>         and the right eye innervates the left occiput is of great
>         interest to me because it fits with binaural hearing
>         (difference between left and right hearing) and the two
>         nostrils smelling differentially. These physiologic properties
>         emanate from the effect of gravity, not Electromagnetism, for
>         one thing, and as to their adaptive value, I am of the opinion
>         that the differential between the two senses is our perception
>         of Quantum Mechanics. I say that based on the fundamental role
>         of the force of gravity in evolution (Torday JS. Parathyroid
>         hormone-related protein is a gravisensor in lung and bone cell
>         biology. Adv Space Res. 2003;32(8):1569-76), the magnitude and
>         direction of the force of gravity emanating from the
>         Earth.....in combination with the continuum from Symbiogenesis
>         in classical physics to Quantum Entanglement in Quantum
>         Physics, the two properties having evolved homeostatic control
>         of energy in the cell (Torday JS. Consciousness, embodied
>         Quantum Entanglement. Prog Biophys Mol Biol. 2023
>         Jan;177:125-128)....the same fundamental property of the
>         magnitude and direction of the force of gravity is not true
>         for EMG to my knowledge, so it would not have such a
>         fundamental role in physiologic evolution. As Proof of
>         Principle, Frantisek Baluska, the botanist from Berlin has
>         hypothesized that the 'brains' of a plant are in its roots,
>         supporting the hypothesized role of the force of graivty here
>         too because plants exhibit a positive gravitropism, whereas
>         animals exhibit a negative gravitropism, hence the fact that
>         our Central Nervous System moves away from the source of
>         gravity. Humans exhibit this trait in the extreme because we
>         are naturally bipedal, placing further positive selection
>         pressure on our CNS having become so large (Torday JS. A
>         central theory of biology. Med Hypotheses. 2015 Jul;85(1):49-57).
>
>         Your thoughts are welcomed...
>
>         John S. Torday
>         Professor of Pediatrics
>         Obstetrics and Gynecology
>         Evolutionary Medicine
>         UCLA
>
>         /Fellow, The European Academy of Science and Arts/
>
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