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<p>(Due to apparent malfunction of the list server, I am reentering
this interesting exchange from John Torday and others --Pedro)<br>
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-------- Mensaje reenviado --------
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<td>Re: [Fis] Howard Bloom GPT - The potential for science
and education -Gravity's fall</td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">Fecha: </th>
<td>Thu, 17 Apr 2025 11:34:53 -0400</td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">De: </th>
<td>JOHN TORDAY <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jtorday@ucla.edu"><jtorday@ucla.edu></a></td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">Para: </th>
<td>Eric Werner <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org"><eric.werner@oarf.org></a>, fis
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a></td>
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<div><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Eric,
with respect, evolution must be
seen in the context of the 'history' of the organism and its
environment..... how/why
those changes have affected physiology from the outset of
life.</span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">
Mechanistically, when
cells experience dyshomeostasis, they produce Radical Oxygen
Species that cause
gene mutations and duplications that mediate remodeling in
order to regain
equipoise. </span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Microgravity
experiments demonstrate the <u>necessity
for the force of gravity</u> in the evolution of
physiology. Subsequently,
gravity came into play when the Phanerozoic 'greenhouse
effect' caused fish to adapt
to land, causing the duplication of three hormone receptor
genes- PTHrP,
glucocorticoid and beta-adrenergic- all necessary for the
adaptation to land
life…. specifically for skeletal 'hardening' to support the
body weight due to
increased gravity, alveolarizatioin of the lung, and the
fish kidney forming
glomeruli for water-salt balance. If you delete the PTHrP
the newborn mouse
will die for lack of alveoli.</span></div>
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style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Best,
John</span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span></p>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at
7:59 AM Eric Werner <<a href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">eric.werner@oarf.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<p>Dear Jason,</p>
<p>Spot on. Gravity may be a necessary condition but not
sufficient. <br>
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<p>-Eric<br>
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<div>On 4/7/25 5:43 PM, Jason Hu wrote:<br>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Hi
John, your hypothesis is indeed creative, but it still
does not explain "JSP" yet... On the other hand, what
is that tiny difference of gravity effect on the brain
of a fox and the brain of a giraffe? Or, are people
living near the sea less smarter/less developed than
people living in the high mountains - since they
experience different gravity? On the other other hand,
we know that birds use magnetic fields to navigate
their long journeys. On the third other hand, I think
there are many different layers of self-organizing
processes between what's going on at Planck Scale and
what's going on at our neuron cells level, so, is that
too sweeping a guess if you link quantum physics with
consciousness directly? </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">The
fundamental difference between two forms of life -
animals vs. plants, I think it is not if the "brain"
forms closer to the earth or not, but in the way we
obtain energy needed to run life. Plants "eat"
sunlight and CO2 directly, we don't but we eat other
life forms. This distinction happens at a very early
stage of life forms (bacterias), unfortunately we
(animals) are bad guys by definition - we eat other
lifes/proteins to live, right? That is a much bigger
difference than the distance of our brains towards the
center of gravity of our planet.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Cheers
- Jason </div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 7, 2025 at
4:50 AM JOHN TORDAY <<a
href="mailto:jtorday@ucla.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jtorday@ucla.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<div><font size="4">Hi Jason, in reply, that is a
very interesting observation you made regarding
the effect of that magnet placed between your
eyes. The fact that the left eye innervates the
right occiput, and the right eye innervates the
left occiput is of great interest to me because
it fits with binaural hearing (difference
between left and right hearing) and the two
nostrils smelling differentially. These
physiologic properties emanate from the effect
of gravity, not Electromagnetism, for one thing,
and as to their adaptive value, I am of the
opinion that the differential between the two
senses is our perception of Quantum Mechanics. I
say that based on the fundamental role of the
force of gravity in evolution (<span
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif">Torday
JS. Parathyroid hormone-related protein is a
gravisensor in lung and bone cell biology. Adv
Space Res. 2003;32(8):1569-76), the magnitude
and direction of the force of gravity
emanating from the Earth.....in combination
with the continuum from Symbiogenesis in
classical physics to Quantum Entanglement in
Quantum Physics, the two properties having
evolved homeostatic control of energy in the
cell (</span></font><span
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:16px">Torday
JS. Consciousness, embodied Quantum
Entanglement. Prog Biophys Mol Biol. 2023
Jan;177:125-128)....</span><span
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:large">the
same fundamental property of the magnitude and
direction of the force of gravity is not true
for EMG to my knowledge, so it would not have
such a fundamental role in physiologic
evolution. As Proof of Principle, Frantisek
Baluska, the botanist from Berlin has
hypothesized that the 'brains' of a plant are in
its roots, supporting the hypothesized role of
the force of graivty here too because plants
exhibit a positive gravitropism, whereas animals
exhibit a negative gravitropism, hence the fact
that our Central Nervous System moves away from
the source of gravity. Humans exhibit this trait
in the extreme because we are naturally bipedal,
placing further positive selection pressure on
our CNS having become so large (</span><span
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:16px">Torday
JS. A central theory of biology. Med Hypotheses.
2015 Jul;85(1):49-57).</span></div>
<div><span
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</span></div>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:BlinkMacSystemFont,-apple-system,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Fira Sans","Droid Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:16px">Your
thoughts are welcomed...</span></div>
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<div>John S. Torday</div>
<div dir="ltr">Professor of Pediatrics
<div>Obstetrics and Gynecology</div>
<div>Evolutionary Medicine</div>
<div>UCLA</div>
<div><br>
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<div><i>Fellow, The European Academy of
Science and Arts</i></div>
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<div><i>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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